Godless is lack of Virtues.

[A Vestigial Mote]

I would see them as Virtuous, I would see them as the light of light, I would see them as the aim of Godliness.

But this brings up part of my point again. You are using the term "godly" instead of just sticking to the term "virtuous." This is blatantly due to your agenda and bias. It just is. If it wasn't, then you would have no problem sticking to the term "virtuous", which everyone is going to have some notion of and accept. As soon as you use the term "godly" instead, you are EXCLUDING a whole swath of human beings. They are going to look at that term and think "Hmmm... I am not godly... does that mean this guy thinks I am not virtuous?" And then ESPECIALLY if you also equate "godlessness" to "death and darkness." A "godless" person is going to look at that and think "Hmmm... I am godless... does that mean this guy thinks I am a bringer of death and darkness?"

This isn't really that difficult to understand. If you want to stop appearing to people in this way, then STOP using fuzzy, metaphoric language to try and compliment some groups, and chastize others. Just stop doing it. Believe me... it is NOT helping your cause. It may sound "cool" or "wise" to you... but it is unnecessary junk, piled on top of what would otherwise be useful words with generally applicable meaning.

 

[viole]

God is likened to the Sun, the source of light and life.

Thus Godless is the exact opposite, it is darkness and death.

So from a faith perspective, Godliness is being made alive in the light of God which is all the virtues.

In that context, a person of faith is to look for the light, from no matter where it shines, but most importantly become the light that is life itself and build lasting connections in family communities and Nations.

A person with no faith must then choose virtue over vice for their own reasons, but there is no disputing, virtues make the person and create harmony, whereas vices tear apart people, families, communities and Nations.

In that way, humanity can find a unity in its diversity.

View attachment 61678


So how do we promote virtues over vices, to an extent that war is no longer considered or tolerated?

Regards Tony

You assume that God is light and life. But, of course, there is no evidence about that apart from some wishful thinking. I could equally say, with the same rational warrant, that Godless is life, light and happiness, since God is death and darkness.

therefore, your definition of godlessness is question begging.

ciao

- viole

 

[The Hammer]

Well, the Baha'i Faith doesn't teach what you are saying, and I don't believe Tony was saying that.

Then Tony should be more clear

 

[syo]

God is likened to the Sun, the source of light and life.

Thus Godless is the exact opposite, it is darkness and death.

Nah. Darkness and death are (pagan) Gods' too.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Godliness = Virtues = Light
Godless = Lack of Virtues = Lack of light.

It in no way says that an Athiest is Godless = Lack of Virtues = Lack of light, so why have you taken it that way?

OK. How about this, then:

Godlessness = virtue = light
Godly = lack of virtue = darkness

What do you think will follow if I start such a thread? A whole bunch of theists happily agreeing with me, or a response sort of like the one you're getting here? I suspect the latter, and that I would spend the rest of the thread telling people that they don't understand me, and blaming them instead of myself for that.

Godly is being full of virtue. It is not being religious or believing in God.

Not to most of the world. That is where you have gotten into trouble. You might want to be a little more cognizant of the message you send, especially after people have told you what that is, and rely less on what you meant. Nobody has bought your doubling down. Apologizing for the initial inadvertent insult would have been virtuous, as would adopting the language your audience uses to convey the meaning you say you intended. But you insist on linking godly to virtue and light and then trying to take the god out of godly without changing the word. It's not a virtuous choice. The negative response you have received should have alerted you to that.

Please don't assume he is saying that.

That was in response to, "labelling people virtueless because they don't believe as I do" I do. He is unapologetic in his choice of language even after being told it is offensive. Now you want others to believe that he does not intend to offend simply because he says so. His demeaner doesn't comport with that.

Have you never inadvertently offended somebody with a poor choice of words or with the use of a word that was understood in a way that you didn't intend? How did you respond? With apologies and expressions of remorse, and a sudden change in the way you use language with that person, or did you double down and continue using the offensive language anyway as if it were the other person's fault and problem.

People need to read past the opening metaphor.

You mean, "God is likened to the Sun, the source of light and life. Thus Godless is the exact opposite, it is darkness and death."

He's very clear there that light symbolizes God. Then he writes,

"It in no way says that an Athiest is Godless = Lack of Virtues = Lack of light, so why have you taken it that way?"

Of course it says that those without God are without light and virtue.

I wish @TransmutingSoul was more clear.

Even you did not read what the OP offers.

Did you not read Truthseekers lament that you were not clear? You're still doing it, blaming others for having a natural and predictable response to your obviously provocative words that you have never modified one iota. This is passive-aggressive behavior and gaslighting. You put out there what is known my most to be provocative language and then act shocked when they are offended, blaming them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, it was just cut and pasted from the OP, as it had already explained the previous statements given in metaphor.

It wasn't. Your OP mentioned a lot about being godly and godless.

God is likened to the Sun, the source of light and life.

Thus Godless is the exact opposite, it is darkness and death.

So from a faith perspective, Godliness is being made alive in the light of God which is all the virtues.

In that context, a person of faith is to look for the light, from no matter where it shines, but most importantly become the light that is life itself and build lasting connections in family communities and Nations.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You may not have meant that, but it is what you said:

That is the way you have read it. But sure keep going with it, even when I have told you that is not what was said.

The OP just offers a metephor which shows that both believer's and unbelievers are on the same earth with the same decisions and it is not what they call themselves that defines a person.

The OP offers that an athiest has to decide how Virtues are obtained for their own selves.

For a person of faith, to be true to God one practices virtues, to be not true to God is to lack the virtues.

So, do you want to have a go at answering the question the OP asked?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I did and i am insulted, even those of your own faith are not happy with your OP. Why not just admit your bias, it is after all the godly thing to do

Then read it again, it is not saying anything bad about any person and offers virtues or lack of virtues make the person.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Doesn't follow.

You make a bunch of declarations from a faith perspective and then assume them as factual. Then wish to apply them from a context where such faith isn't present.

So you do not like metephor, that's OK, the metephor only shows that virtues and lack of virtues define a person.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Awfully simplistic, no?
Borderline... child-like?

One should never forget the most basic and fundamental lessons taught as a child, here is an example.

Matthew 18:1-5
He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven

Regards Tony

 

[ChristineM]

Then read it again, it is not saying anything bad about any person and offers virtues or lack of virtues make the person.

Regards Tony

Jeez? I have read it several times, even people of your own faith have questioned what you wrote. I don't know if your lack if virtue here is doubling down or your actual belief.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But this brings up part of my point again. You are using the term "godly" instead of just sticking to the term "virtuous."

The OP was simply demonstrating a metephor showing how a believer can also embrace a non-believers in the same light by looking at virtue and not names people call themselves.

One person has already offered it was a child like metephor, indicating it was too simple.

What the OP is showing is that the predudices of names is deeply embedded in the current mindset of humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You assume that God is light and life. But, of course, there is no evidence about that apart from some wishful thinking. I could equally say, with the same rational warrant, that Godless is life, light and happiness, since God is death and darkness.

therefore, your definition of godlessness is question begging.

ciao

- viole

A metephor can be considered or rejected. So drop Light and Godliness, if you disapprove of those and just go with the word virtues.

Thus the virtues define a person and you have the same answer the OP offered.

There was a question in the OP no one has attempted, would you like to have a go at the OP question?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Nah. Darkness and death are (pagan) Gods' too.

That is not incorrect.

All names and attributes and lack of names and attributes result from our concepts of God.

Thus one can conceive a God of Light and a God of Darkness.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

The key here is that the sun is the animating force of light and life and darkness and death are the result of the absence of the light of the sun, as there is no independent force of darkness.

Regards Tony

 

[stevecanuck]

God is likened to the Sun,

At least you could have put “IMHO” in front of that.

My nut-brown ale is more real than your imaginary sky-fairy, so I would have a better argument claiming it is likened to the sun and life. And I would be a lot closer to the truth.




IMHO.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Of course it says that

Did you not read Truthseekers lament that you were not clear? You're still doing it, blaming others for having a natural and predictable response to your obviously provocative words that you have never modified one iota. This is passive-aggressive behavior and gaslighting. You put out there what is known my most to be provocative language and then act shocked when they are offended, blaming them.

The OP is not saying what you offered. It offered a metephor about virtues and vices also being known as light and darkness or Godliness or Godless.

It is simply solved. QUOTE where the OP has said Athiests are not virtuous.

In fact the OP offers they can be more virtuous that a believer as it is the virtues that define us.

I have now explained this numerous times.

Would you like to have a go at the question the OP asked, in the light if virtue?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It wasn't. Your OP mentioned a lot about being godly and godless.

So you then you chose to leave out the bit that clarified the metaphor and go with an intent the OP has not given. OK, not sure why you would want to do that?

Instead, one could decide to take up the challenge to answer the question the OP raised?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jeez? I have read it several times, even people of your own faith have questioned what you wrote. I don't know if your lack if virtue here is doubling down or your actual belief.

So read it again, knowing I have offered it does not say what people said it has and It is simply rectified.

QUOTE the OP where it is said an athiest is not virtuous.

The OP only offered that an athiest has to determine for themselves the source of virtues, that is all it said, it did not say they lack them.

There is a question the OP asked, it would be good to get an answer from at least one respondent.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

At least you could have put “IMHO” in front of that.

My nut-brown ale is more real than your imaginary sky-fairy, so I would have a better argument claiming it is likened to the sun and life. And I would be a lot closer to the truth.

IMHO.

My thoughts are from scriptural teachings, which are in all religious scriptures, here is but one of many thousands of quotes,

"O SON OF BEING!
Thou art My lamp and My light is in thee. Get thou from it thy radiance and seek none other than Me. For I have created thee rich and have bountifully shed My favor upon thee."

Virtues to a person of faith also mean to be a giver of light and to be Godly. That is the metephor offered

If you do not like the metephor, just use virtues.

There is a quesrion the OP asked, would be nice if one person offers their thoughts.

Regards Tony

 

[ChristineM]

So read it again, knowing I have offered it does not say what people said it has and It is simply rectified.

QUOTE the OP where it is said an athiest is not virtuous.

The OP only offered that an athiest has to determine for themselves the source of virtues, that is all it said, it did not say they lack them.

There is a question the OP asked, it would be good to get an answer from at least one respondent.

Regards Tony

It says what it says. No matter how often i read it

How about the title.
"Godless is lack of Virtues"

Everyone, including you has to choose for themselves, believ in a bronze age superstition does not give you a get out of jail free card

Why do you think people you insult would want to answer any question yoy pose?