God's Attitude Toward Homosexuality

[Saint Frankenstein]

I refuse to believe that the Creator of the universe, who created our bodies and sexuality, would view two people who love each other as soulmates, form a family and spend decades with each other as sinning and instead wish a lifetime of loneliness, misery and torment for them. And straight people who voluntarily chose celibacy need to stop comparing that to gays being celibate. If you wanted to marry, as a heterosexual, you would be permitted to. But there's no such out for LGBT people under, say Catholicism's views. They must be celibate no matter what. (I suppose bisexuals have an out by repressing their homosexual side and marrying the opposite sex). Not all heterosexual people are capable to be celibate so why would you expect all gays and lesbians to be? Ridiculous.

Those Biblical verses seeming to pertain to homosexuality can be explained as referring to cult sexual practices. That Levitical verse isn't clear what it's referring to when you consider the original Hebrew.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I refuse to believe that the Creator of the universe, who created our bodies and sexuality, would view two people who love each other as soulmates, form a family and spend decades with each other as sinning and instead wish a lifetime of loneliness, misery and torment for them. And straight people who voluntarily chose celibacy need to stop comparing that to gays being celibate. If you wanted to marry, as a heterosexual, you would be permitted to. But there's no such out for LGBT people under, say Catholicism's views. They must be celibate no matter what. (I suppose bisexuals have an out by repressing their homosexual side and marrying the opposite sex). Not all heterosexual people are capable to be celibate so why would you expect all gays and lesbians to be? Ridiculous.

Those Biblical verses seeming to pertain to homosexuality can be explained as referring to cult sexual practices. That Levitical verse isn't clear what it's referring to when you consider the original Hebrew.

Remember that the idea that sex is reserved for marriage, its bonding, and the sexual creation of children comes from the Torah aka Judaism (despite some branches of Judaism embracing homosexuality we must nevertheless accept the reality of history). This was in stark contrast to the surrounding pagan cultures who had the ethic of gratifying all sexual pleasures. Every sexual act forbidden in the Torah was committed in those days with impunity. Say what you want about accepting loving couples, but our society is slowly sliding down to that same place. Do we want to go there?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Remember that the idea that sex is reserved for marriage, its bonding, and the sexual creation of children comes from the Torah aka Judaism (despite some branches of Judaism embracing homosexuality we must nevertheless accept the reality of history). This was in stark contrast to the surrounding pagan cultures who had the ethic of gratifying all sexual pleasures. Every sexual act forbidden in the Torah was committed in those days with impunity. Say what you want about accepting loving couples, but our society is slowly sliding down to that same place. Do we want to go there?

I find it insulting that you would compare accepting loving, monogamous gay and lesbian couples to society sliding down to moral chaos. The two have nothing to do with each other. Straights need to clean up their own house before judging, anyway.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I find it insulting that you would compare accepting loving, monogamous gay and lesbian couples to society sliding down to moral chaos. The two have nothing to do with each other. Straights need to clean up their own house before judging, anyway.

You are welcome to feel however you wish, but I'm not responsible for your feelings.

I think you and others need to come to terms with the fact that traditional morality does not sanction homosexual behavior and this is not going to go away. Part of tolerance is learning to live with neighbors who disagree with you.

 

[loganonekenobi]

According to many Christians god doesn't condemn romantic attraction or sexual attraction between members of the same sex; however, physically acting on that attraction is a huge No-no, even an abomination worthy of the death penalty.

So just what is it about touching pee pees that is so much worse than simply wanting to? What are the inherent underpinnings of this physical transgression that sets it apart from the attraction itself and make it worthy of such severe condemnation?

Physically expressing homosexual attraction is far worse than just than just the attraction because_______________fill in the blank______________ (and no "because the Bible tells me so" kinds of answers please).


.

I'm not sure why the rule was put into the Torah. My guess is that this law, like many others. was made to distinguish a jew for every one else. Many cultures before christianity embraced homosexuallity. It could also be that the tribe of Isreal needed every last child so as to become strong enough so that they could stop getting their !@sses kicked and occupied by their neighbors. Obviously homosexuality sex does not achieve this goal as well.
Now the new testements were written (at first anyway) in the shadow of the Roman empire. The Romans were..... bad i mean.... really bad. orgies, pedophilia, birth control by way of just throwing babies away. If you were a slave you were property just like a chair. A roman citizen had an age of censent that they could hide behind but a slave did not.
Many early christians were slaves and women both of whom had good reasons to object to the roman's behavior.
Of course, what better way to enforce this than to say "God says so"
Eventually it came to be used as a guilt tool to keep the masses coming to the pews and handing over their money.

 

[Prestor John]

My only exception to what you say is that I find no place in the Bible where we are to judge each other. As to the BOM, I don't know. Judgement of one another is usurping the power of God. I mean that as harshly as I can.

Actually, the Bible is filled with examples of the Lord commanding His people to judge righteously.

After the the Lord promised Abraham that his seed would become a mighty nation, the Lord said of his children,

"For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him." (Genesis 18:19)

This idea was reiterated to the children of Israel (Abraham's descendants) through Moses after the Law was given,

"Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the Lord your God." (Leviticus 18:4)

As long as we live after the Lord's way, keeping His judgments and ordinances, we will judge righteously and justly.

The Lord went into further explanation to the children of Israel when He said,

"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour." (Leviticus 19:15)

They were expressly commanded to judge their neighbors as long as they did so in righteousness.

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke on this subject as well, claiming that with whatever judgment we use to judge others we shall also be judged.

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7:2)

The Lord Jesus Christ actually condemned the Pharisees because they reserved judgment, among other things,

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23:23)

The Lord basically boiled the general rule of judgment to this,

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:24)

As to the Book of Mormon, during His bodily visitation to the people of Nephi, the Lord taught,

"And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to partake of my flesh and blood unworthily, when ye shall minister it;

For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

Nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out from among you, but ye shall minister unto him and shall pray for him unto the Father, in my name; and if it so be that he repenteth and is baptized in my name, then shall ye receive him, and shall minister unto him of my flesh and blood.

But if he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, that he may not destroy my people, for behold I know my sheep, and they are numbered." (3 Nephi 28-31)

We believe that those called to serve and administer in the Lord's Church are also called to be judges, to judge members of the congregation, to ascertain if they are worthy to partake of the Sacrament.

These judges are held accountable for any among them who eat and drink unworthily.

I had a time in my life when my Bishop forbade me to partake of the Sacrament. I underwent a period of repentance.

I refrained to partake of the Sacrament until he felt that I was again worthy to do so.

Anyone who is actively engaged in a homosexual lifestyle is committing grievous sin and are not worthy to partake of the emblems of Christ's sacrifice.

If they refuse to repent of their sin their names may eventually be removed from the membership of the Church.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You are welcome to feel however you wish, but I'm not responsible for your feelings.

I think you and others need to come to terms with the fact that traditional morality does not sanction homosexual behavior and this is not going to go away. Part of tolerance is learning to live with neighbors who disagree with you.

Yes, there will always be bigoted people. As long as you keep your bigotry to yourself and don't try to enshrine it into law, think whatever nonsense you please.

 

[Katzpur]

Personally, I don't believe it's my right to judge anyone as being "worthy" or "unworthy" to do anything.

 

[Prestor John]

I find it insulting that you would compare accepting loving, monogamous gay and lesbian couples to society sliding down to moral chaos. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Exempting the fact that scripture has foretold that these two (and others) have everything to do with each other.

Straights need to clean up their own house before judging, anyway.

No one is judging anyone. The faithful are simply referencing what they believe to be eternal laws.

Anyone can cite the law without being a judge.

Yes, there will always be bigoted people.

Why do you assume any of these motivations are based on hate?

As long as you keep your bigotry to yourself and don't try to enshrine it into law, think whatever nonsense you please.

This is somewhat hypocritical considering how members of the LGBT community and activists have been waving their lifestyle in everyone else's face and demanding that they receive special treatment.

 

[Prestor John]

Personally, I don't believe it's my right to judge anyone as being "worthy" or "unworthy" to do anything.

Of course it isn't because you have not been called to be a Judge in Israel.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Exempting the fact that scripture has foretold that these two (and others) have everything to do with each other.

No one is judging anyone. The faithful are simply referencing what they believe to be eternal laws.

Anyone can cite the law without being a judge.

Why do you assume any of these motivations are based on hate?

This is somewhat hypocritical considering how members of the LGBT community and activists have been waving their lifestyle in everyone else's face and demanding that they receive special treatment.

I don't agree with your sect's interpretation of the Bible so I don't really care what you have to say about it.

LGBT people living openly as who we are and demanding the same rights and protections is not shoving anything in anyone's face. You would want us to be closested and quite. You probably think a gay couple handing hands is "shoving it in your face". Grow up. Heterosexuality is shoved in everyone's face all the time. It's all over the culture.

 

[loganonekenobi]

Remember that the idea that sex is reserved for marriage, its bonding, and the sexual creation of children comes from the Torah aka Judaism (despite some branches of Judaism embracing homosexuality we must nevertheless accept the reality of history). This was in stark contrast to the surrounding pagan cultures who had the ethic of gratifying all sexual pleasures. Every sexual act forbidden in the Torah was committed in those days with impunity. Say what you want about accepting loving couples, but our society is slowly sliding down to that same place. Do we want to go there?

Trust me when I say that we wont be going to the slippery slope that was the Roman empire. If you studied just how bad they were then you'd already know that we have pretty strong laws against the sexual depravity that was once accepted. Loving relationships between two consenting adults is a far cry from this type of culture.
I understand as well as most the slippery slope argument but it would be the same as my saying that if we allow one law to favor a religion then it wont be long before we are back to the theocracy of mideval Europe. Do we want that?

 

[Katzpur]

Of course it isn't because you have not been called to be a Judge in Israel.

Have you?

 

[Woberts]

This is somewhat hypocritical considering how members of the LGBT community and activists have been waving their lifestyle in everyone else's face and demanding that they receive special treatment.

They don't want special treatment, they want equal treatment.
It's not that hard to wrap your head around.

 

[columbus]

Why do you assume any of these motivations are based on hate?

There is no other rational explanation.
Referring to the opinions of some other, long dead, homophobe doesn't justify your beliefs. Which is what we're talking about. I don't care what Moses or Smith thought.

This is somewhat hypocritical considering how members of the LGBT community and activists have been waving their lifestyle in everyone else's face and demanding that they receive special treatment.

Nobody can ever tell me what this special treatment is. I am legally prevented from discrimination against you, regardless of my opinions about LDS, because religion is in the local antidiscrimination code. You are legally allowed to discriminate against me, because orientation is not.

Heck, Mike Pence spent a ton of time and money attempting to add discrimination to the Indiana state constitution. The Republicans dropped that amendment like the handful of poop that is was only when it became a political liability(energizing the wrong "base").

But for some reason, the Christian Conservative Republican(in that order) has never proposed legislation restricting divorce. Something Jesus had some clear and relevant opinions on.
Tom

 

[Prestor John]

Have you?

Nope, which is why I also have not been judging anyone's worthiness.

You believe that someone sharing their religion's views about God and moral issues is them judging the worthiness of others?

 

[Prestor John]

I don't agree with your sect's interpretation of the Bible so I don't really care what you have to say about it.

I understand this sentiment and have felt it myself toward certain people from time to time, but I know that it is void of God's love.

When we partake of God's love, we care about how others live their lives, including how they interpret the scriptures.

I care about how you interpret the scriptures and I'm sure that if you thought about it you'd care about how I interpret them too.

If you truly believe I have been led astray because of my interpretation of the scriptures, wouldn't you want to help me understand this and hopefully bring me back to the straight and narrow path by explaining how I am in error?

I truly do not believe that I am in error and I hope that your interpretation of the scriptures includes more than simply ignoring those verses you don't agree with.

LGBT people living openly as who we are and demanding the same rights and protections is not shoving anything in anyone's face.

I don't believe that a person's sexuality is a clear indicator of who they are.

I don't believe that anyone has the right to force others to do something that violates their religious views or lose their livelihood.

I also don't believe that anyone has the right to change what a marriage is to satisfy their desires.

If you wanted the "same rights" as others, you wouldn't want these things either.

We have a difference of opinion.

You would want us to be closested and quite.

Closeted? No.

Quiet? Yes.

I wish everyone was more quiet.

You probably think a gay couple handing hands is "shoving it in your face".

You have proven that you don't really know what I want or think.

I don't care if people sin. We all sin. What I do care about, however, is the organized effort to force me and others to change our beliefs through the manipulation of the media and legislation.

You can do whatever you want as long as you leave me alone.

Changing what marriage is and then forcing me to participate would not be leaving me alone.

Grow up.

You just made ridiculous and unfounded claims about me personally and now you also claim that I am the immature one?

Heterosexuality is shoved in everyone's face all the time. It's all over the culture.

Of course heterosexuality is everywhere. The existence and future of our species depends upon it.

 

[Prestor John]

They don't want special treatment, they want equal treatment.
It's not that hard to wrap your head around.

This is assuming that they do not already have equal treatment.

Which they do and then some.

 

[JJ50]

If the god featured in the Bible exists and was a god of love, instead of the very unpleasant entity it is, it would have no problem with homosexuality. Its 'son', that guy, Jesus, could have been gay as he had a disciple whom he loved. If that was the case I hope he had a great sex life.

 

[Prestor John]

There is no other rational explanation.
Referring to the opinions of some other, long dead, homophobe doesn't justify your beliefs. Which is what we're talking about. I don't care what Moses or Smith thought.

So, you are basing your assumptions about my motivations on even more assumptions about the motivations of past prophets?

Is that "rational"?

How about you try viewing this issue from a perspective of love, rather than hate, and then maybe you'll start to have something other than unfounded assumptions.

Nobody can ever tell me what this special treatment is. I am legally prevented from discrimination against you, regardless of my opinions about LDS, because religion is in the local antidiscrimination code. You are legally allowed to discriminate against me, because orientation is not.

Why are you trying to equate someone's sexual orientation to a religion?

You understand that the two are not the same, right?

Are you unable to elect representatives in your State that you feel would affect legislation how you wanted?

If not, why not? If you can, then how are you and I not equal?

Heck, Mike Pence spent a ton of time and money attempting to add discrimination to the Indiana state constitution. The Republicans dropped that amendment like the handful of poop that is was only when it became a political liability(energizing the wrong "base").

I don't know to what you are referring, but would love to hear about it.

Politicians everywhere are always doing something that someone can complain about.

One of the reason why I will never be a politician.

But for some reason, the Christian Conservative Republican(in that order) has never proposed legislation restricting divorce. Something Jesus had some clear and relevant opinions on.

You understand how such legislation would be violating the principle of separation of Church and State?

Enacting any law because "Jesus said so" is a one-way ticket to a theocracy, which no one wants.

People are free to be bigots, homophobes, racists and everything in between in this country. That is what makes it so great.

We are free.