God's Judgment of Dead Babies

[JayJayDee]

Sorry, but I choose not to delve into all of your scripture verses and interpretations. (you win)

Is that what you think I'm trying to do?

I have studied the scriptures very carefully for many years and I know what they teach. I have come out of Christendom, so don't tell me about interpretation because I have the evidence that Christendom twisted scripture centuries ago. This is the only Christianity that people know, so anything that disagrees with it is automatically deemed to be false. Believe me, the reverse is true.

From my experience, Jehovah Witnesses have a history of avoiding many difficult questions.

Ask away.....you have obviously not spoken to many Witnesses. What questions do we avoid?
I will answer any sincere question.

In addition your faith has changed the words of the Bible and your interpretations of other passages are highly suspect.

Would you like to explore those supposedly changed words and interpretations? Please provide them and we can discuss them for all to see. It's one thing to make an accusation but another thing entirely to substantiate it.

 

[George-ananda]

[
The notion that I have a soul who will experience almost endless cycles of birth and death is somewhat appealing to me, because I'd have the chance to experience life as a honey badger. I've wanted to be a honey badger ever since I'd watched the following YouTube video about honey badgers:

Very cute animal. You may have already been a honey badger and then wanted to be Salvador. The path is upwards to the divine (not backwards).

 

[Ingledsva]

How does God judge the souls of dead babies? Do they all get a free pass to Heaven, even if they would have become evil adults who would have rebelled against God? Does God know the souls of the infants or children who would have grown up to become evil and worthy of Hell? Does God send the would-be evil souls to Hell or does God judge every dead infant as sinless and innocent, despite the fact that they would have chosen evil had they been given the chance? If God judges dead babies to be innocent and automatically worthy of Heaven, then why must adults live through the sufferings of this life to be tested and judged by God before we go to Heaven or Hell; whereas, all the infants or young children who die always go straight to Heaven?

I am Agnostic and do not believe this stuff.

However, as a thought experiment, I can not for the life of me understand how one could think a baby would be judged on a non-existent life.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

When I was a Christian, I did believe that people were not held accountable by God for their sins until they had cognitive skills such as memory. One of my earliest childhood memories was at the age of 3 when I was outside playing and a religious neighbor lady had approached me and taught me that God had made me and everything. I had believed that this is when I had achieved the age of accountability and that God had put a soul in me. I don't remember anything before I was age 3, so then I obviously must have been soulless. I used to believe that if I would have died before age 3, then God would have simply extinguished my existence. I would not have been judged by God, because I was a soulless animal and I would have neither gone to Heaven nor Hell. How old were you in your earliest memories?

A memory OF age 3, does not in any way mean one is accountable at age 3. Science has shown that for most people (except some geniuses,) knowledge and understanding, leading to accountability for your actions, - is much later.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

I would say that babies (and everyone else) is judged as they are now, not as they would have become. It could be that in the case where the person had the potential to become greater than he did but refused to do so, that this would be held against him. But in the case of the babies, they never had such an opportunity for it to be held against them. So that would not be an issue.
So yes, babies are judged favorably.
Except in the case where the early death was only one part of the reparation that the baby needed to make. Then it would have to continue on to whatever other reparation it needs, such as hell or rebirth, etc.

So Orthodox Jews believe in reincarnation?

I know there are a couple of places in the Bible that appear to be saying that.

*

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

When I was a Christian, I did believe that people were not held accountable by God for their sins until they had cognitive skills such as memory. One of my earliest childhood memories was at the age of 3 when I was outside playing and a religious neighbor lady had approached me and taught me that God had made me and everything. I had believed that this is when I had achieved the age of accountability and that God had put a soul in me. I don't remember anything before I was age 3, so then I obviously must have been soulless. I used to believe that if I would have died before age 3, then God would have simply extinguished my existence. I would not have been judged by God, because I was a soulless animal and I would have neither gone to Heaven nor Hell. How old were you in your earliest memories?

Yeah, your experience is dead on. What you experienced is exactly what I mean. I have been studying this spiritual stuff for a while now and one thing I learned is we don't have souls automatically when we're born. I believe I was doing some research on abortion and christianity when I stubbled across the information about us not having souls until we became toddlers, which instantly made sense to me because my oldest memory is at age 3 as well. I just remember some man asking me how old I was. I was playing with a toy at the time and I pointed to the number 3 on my toy to show the man my age.. Your earliest memory is better than mines because yours was about God. That was a good example for people who want to know when the soul enters the body. Omg, my son is 3 now and I am always telling him about Jesus. I know he must have a soul now. Lol.

 

[Salvador]

A memory OF age 3, does not in any way mean one is accountable at age 3. Science has shown that for most people (except some geniuses,) knowledge and understanding, leading to accountability for your actions, - is much later.

*

There's nothing in the Holy scriptures nor in science that the age of accountability is 3. Furthermore, the Bible does not state that God starts holding people responsible for their sins from the moment that they are able to understand the concept of God as their creator. Based on my own personal life experience of when I had first understood that God created me, I had believed that this was the point in my life when God would have put a soul in me and then he would have begun to hold me responsible for my sins.

 

[Salvador]

Yeah, your experience is dead on. What you experienced is exactly what I mean. I have been studying this spiritual stuff for a while now and one thing I learned is we don't have souls automatically when we're born. I believe I was doing some research on abortion and christianity when I stubbled across the information about us not having souls until we became toddlers, which instantly made sense to me because my oldest memory is at age 3 as well. I just remember some man asking me how old I was. I was playing with a toy at the time and I pointed to the number 3 on my toy to show the man my age.. Your earliest memory is better than mines because yours was about God. That was a good example for people who want to know when the soul enters the body. Omg, my son is 3 now and I am always telling him about Jesus. I know he must have a soul now. Lol.

I had taught my daughter when she was age 3 that Jesus was our personal Lord and Savior so that then she could have God's Grace and Salvation.

 

[Salvador]

What's a "soul"?

I think of the soul as a God-given spiritual part of every human; the soul enables humans to experience life after their biological death. Humans will experience life after death; because God will reunite the human soul with its newly formed God-given body that will be forced by God to face God's final judgment. The human souls who are judged by God to be righteous believers of Him will be rewarded by God for their faith and good deeds; whereas, the human souls who are judged as unrighteous unbelievers of God will be punished by God.

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

I had taught my daughter when she was age 3 that Jesus was our personal Lord and Savior so that then she could have God's Grace and Salvation.

Why are you agnostic, honey? You make a really great Christian. Lol. You seem like you know your stuff.

 

[Salvador]

Sorry, but I choose not to delve into all of your scripture verses and interpretations. (you win)

From my experience, Jehovah Witnesses have a history of avoiding many difficult questions. In addition your faith has changed the words of the Bible and your interpretations of other passages are highly suspect.

Is that what you think I'm trying to do?

I have studied the scriptures very carefully for many years and I know what they teach. I have come out of Christendom, so don't tell me about interpretation because I have the evidence that Christendom twisted scripture centuries ago. This is the only Christianity that people know, so anything that disagrees with it is automatically deemed to be false. Believe me, the reverse is true.



Ask away.....you have obviously not spoken to many Witnesses. What questions do we avoid?
I will answer any sincere question.



Would you like to explore those supposedly changed words and interpretations? Please provide them and we can discuss them for all to see. It's one thing to make an accusation but another thing entirely to substantiate it.

G'day, JayJayDee! My best friend in high school was a Jehovah's Witness. I had learned a lot about Jehovah and the Bible from Jehovah's Witnesses. One of my questions which remains unanswered is "How did the kangaroos get from where Noah's Ark landed to Australia? Cheers!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I guess I have a mixed answer.

From a Christian perspective (not my belief), infants would go to hell. They inherited the sinful nature of Adam and Eve and since they have not reached the age of repentance and conversion, I don't see how because of age, they are the exclusion to the "die without a savior" rule.

My belief, very hard to say. I know spirits exist my family, our associates, and I have seen them before; but, I don't know about seeing babies. I assume their spirit goes back to where it came.

That fact of life is people die. We want our bodies to live on; and, they don't. I do believe babies have spirits. All of our spirits exist, but our flesh dies regardless of age.

edit: Actually, I have a better answer. Since we are a part of our ancestors and they a part of us, (Ancestors don't have to be that far back in time), a baby's spirit would be part of the family. I'd assume he or she would be part of his or her mother and father as that's how we continue in generation by succession of not only our physical connection with others, but spiritual as well.

How does God judge the souls of dead babies? Do they all get a free pass to Heaven, even if they would have become evil adults who would have rebelled against God? Does God know the souls of the infants or children who would have grown up to become evil and worthy of Hell? Does God send the would-be evil souls to Hell or does God judge every dead infant as sinless and innocent, despite the fact that they would have chosen evil had they been given the chance? If God judges dead babies to be innocent and automatically worthy of Heaven, then why must adults live through the sufferings of this life to be tested and judged by God before we go to Heaven or Hell; whereas, all the infants or young children who die always go straight to Heaven?

 

[Ingledsva]

I guess I have a mixed answer.

From a Christian perspective (not my belief), infants would go to hell. They inherited the sinful nature of Adam and Eve and since they have not reached the age of repentance and conversion, I don't see how because of age, they are the exclusion to the "die without a savior" rule.

...

Except that it doesn't actually say people inherit sin. It says Adam and Chav'vah's sin caused a condition - which we are born into. Not that we are born sinners. In other words we are born into a world where sin can exist. Free choice.

*

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I havnt heard that view before. I never believed in inherited sin. We just have the ability to sin just as Adam and Eve.

Except that it doesn't actually say people inherit sin. It says Adam and Chav'vah's sin caused a condition - which we are born into. Not that we are born sinners. In other words we are born into a world where sin can exist. Free choice.

*

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Another note. Isnt today the same situation as then. Sin existed in the Garden of Eden as well as the temptation of sin? Im assuming the stories for lack of better words are mirrors of what we experienced today (in Moses case, in His time)

Metaphors and parables were used often to explain the human condition and what they assume to be defined as the human condition.

Since Christianity is an Eastern faith, I would assume they have similar ways of expression as do other beliefs in nearby areas.

I wonder why these are seen as literal events. Unless it has to do with the English language which doesnt reply on parables to explain something true or not.

Except that it doesn't actually say people inherit sin. It says Adam and Chav'vah's sin caused a condition - which we are born into. Not that we are born sinners. In other words we are born into a world where sin can exist. Free choice.

*

 

[Tumah]

So Orthodox Jews believe in reincarnation?

I know there are a couple of places in the Bible that appear to be saying that.

*

Yeah, we do. But keep in mind, the Bible is only half the story for us.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I havn't heard that view before. I never believed in inherited sin. We just have the ability to sin just as Adam and Eve.

The difference in the ' ability to sin' is that Adam and Even could only sin on purpose, deliberately.
Whereas because of our inherited imperfection from father Adam we can sin by mistake, unintentionally, by accident, etc.
If we could stop sinning we would Not die. Because we can Not stop sinning we die - Ezekiel 18:4,20; Acts 3:23
Since we can Not resurrect oneself or another we need someone who can do that for us. Jesus can and will - Rev. 1:18
Scripture teaches some resurrected to heaven - Rev. 20:6 - but the majority of mankind - John 3:13 - will have a future resurrection restored back to healthy physical life on earth - Acts 24:15 - starting with Jesus' soon coming 1000-year kingdom governmental rule over earth when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I guess I have a mixed answer.
From a Christian perspective (not my belief), infants would go to hell. They inherited the sinful nature of Adam and Eve and since they have not reached the age of repentance and conversion, I don't see how because of age, they are the exclusion to the "die without a savior" rule.
My belief, very hard to say. I know spirits exist my family, our associates, and I have seen them before; but, I don't know about seeing babies. I assume their spirit goes back to where it came.
That fact of life is people die. We want our bodies to live on; and, they don't. I do believe babies have spirits. All of our spirits exist, but our flesh dies regardless of age.

First of all, the ' Bible's hell ' is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave fro the unconscious dead - Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11vs11-14
It is religious-myth teachings that teaches a permanent forever burning.
KJV Bibles translated the word Gehenna as hell fire when Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever. So Gehenna is just a fitting word for destruction. Such as Psalm 92:7 mentions the wicked will be destroyed forever, Not burning forever.

Adam's spirit was connected to his breath of life. When Adam died ' all ' of Adam returned to the dust of the ground- Genesis 3:19
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam simply returned to the dust of the earth. Adam went from non-life, to life- then back to non-life. Adam had No pre-human existence.

Since the one who has died is freed or acquitted from sin - Romans 6:7 - then because of Jesus that opens up the way for a resurrection. Since only those who are dedicated followers of Jesus can go to heaven - Rev. 20:6 - then the majority of mankind ( includes babies ) can have a healthy physical fleshly resurrection restored back to life on earth starting with the soon coming 1000-year kingdom governmental rule of Christ over earth. - Revelation 22:2

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I understand where you're coming from. I don't believe that. I can go a full day without sinning. What would be examples of sinning unintentionally? I know if someone had a knife to my thought, I wouldn't be thinking "what would God think about this if I killed Him for my life?" Rather, I would from self-dense. That's a sin. I made a conscious intent from a fight or flight response to fight against my opponent to save my life.

Unless maybe someone who has a mental health disability?

The difference in the ' ability to sin' is that Adam and Even could only sin on purpose, deliberately.
Whereas because of our inherited imperfection from father Adam we can sin by mistake, unintentionally, by accident, etc.
If we could stop sinning we would Not die. Because we can Not stop sinning we die - Ezekiel 18:4,20; Acts 3:23
Since we can Not resurrect oneself or another we need someone who can do that for us. Jesus can and will - Rev. 1:18
Scripture teaches some resurrected to heaven - Rev. 20:6 - but the majority of mankind - John 3:13 - will have a future resurrection restored back to healthy physical life on earth - Acts 24:15 - starting with Jesus' soon coming 1000-year kingdom governmental rule over earth when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

 

[Salvador]

Yeah, we do. But keep in mind, the Bible is only half the story for us.

Greetings, Tumah! Wow, I honestly did not know that Orthodox Judaism has believed in reincarnation. I know even less about Judaism than I had thought. I'm not very familiar about the teachings of the Torah.