Spiderman
Veteran Member
Don't forget that Noah lived 900 years. He didn't have a toothbrush, toothpaste, a dentist, or dentures...
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God's motives to torture
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
I am not feeling any incovenient, at the moment.
And I am not sure where I will get the best company. I mean, according to your theory, I will spend eternity with Einstein, Feynman, Socrates, Lucretius, Spinoza. A nicely self selected set of intellectuals.
Much better than playing harp with Mother Teresa or Pat Robertson for all eternity. Heaven forbid.
Ciao
- viole
Don't forget that Noah lived 900 years. He didn't have a toothbrush, toothpaste, a dentist, or dentures...
Do you expect he is in hell?
Ciao
- viole
Spiderman
Veteran Member
He never accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior, so yes!
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I'm just clowning. I'm guessing people will know the truth after their death, and have the ability to convert once they know the truth.He never accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior, so yes!
He never accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior, so yes!
Bummer. So, I also have to expect such people in Hell? Please tell me no. Tell me they have been saved, after all. He will probably talk for all eternity about the stench and the shoveling of crap he had to endure on that boat. Boring.
Ciao
- viole
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Expect to see Gandhi , Anne Frank, and Buddha there too, with the majority of the historical figures as well .
Expect to see Gandhi , Anne Frank, and Buddha there too, with the majority of the historical figures as well .
Anna Frank in hell? All Jewish victims of the holocaust in Hell?
Of course, that is the logical consequence of the salvation doctrine of the God of Love. I wonder whether He should not be called the God of Laugh, if that were really true.
Cool. Can’t wait to meet her.
Ciao
- viole
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
In all seriousness, if God is the god that is traditionally depicted by Christians and Muslims, I don't care to be spending eternity with him. I could not feel comfortable worshipping something like that.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
If God is omnipresent, we ARE being forced into His presence because it's the only option.
Many sign on to Team God BECAUSE He promises sin without consequence as long as you suck up.
Then why is God there?
Given the rules He's given us, yes, yes He can. You simply don't want to admit to it. He has done MANY things He tells us is objectively wrong.
Then any blessings we get are self-inflicted as well.
Scripture says lots of unsupported things, like Jesus being sinless despite all the sins he clearly commits.
Happens in the bible quite frequently, though. That is why the NT authors love having ignorant people instead of educated people as their audience: they don't want people looking that up.
Great! So abortion isn't killing an individual! So we can neither sin nor do good because only individuals can do that. Heaven and hell is for "humanity" in general, not us in particular!
I don't see the point in having faith in an indifferent/lazy God. I could acknowledge One exists, but you get what you pay for and if God doesn't want to pay up, then He doesn't get the reward.
The ultimate test is to love ourselves despite all that. I will not love a neglectful, abusive parent who wants nothing to do with me and wants all the credit.
Sin can't enter heaven but there can be rebellions, apparently.
I guess if you're a pyromaniac, a lake of fire sounds pretty awesome.
Could go either way:
People have unlimited power. They destroy everything (but could also restore everything what with the whole "unlimited power" part).
People have unlimited power. Just like when you use cheats to get all the unlockables in a video game at the very start, the game gets boring and you stop relying on your cheats.
People like them happens because they don't know what True Power is. They didn't even do all that themselves. They had underlings for that. In their psychotic heads, though, the fact it was happening means they were powerful. They also died because they weren't as powerful as their propaganda suggested.
God's armies being defeated by chariots of iron, not even iron WEAPONS, shows that even a God can bleed.
Parent didn't make the fire nor the way fire works.
We can still arrest them for neglect or abuse.
Parents don't get out of that by saying the child chose to be that way as the buck still stops with the parent.
Which is why he went on a bender after the boat trip.
If he's still there, King Sisyphus would make a much more interesting companion. Plus, we could work together to bust out.
Anthem
Active Member
I didn't say force, but make sure.
I reject the God of the Bible and "salvation" through Jesus Christ, and yet I hardly feel any self-inflicted torment. Rather, faith in the God I worship and am devoted to (as best as I can be) gives me comfort and joy, comfort and joy, oh tidings of... (stop it!).
So, how to explain this disparity?
Maybe we already do and already have.
Skwim
Veteran Member
I don't know about you, but for me being cast into a furnace of fire would certainly be torture.
Matthew 13: 49-50
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 18:8
"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
Matthew 5:22
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Mark 9:43
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 18:8
"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
Matthew 5:22
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Mark 9:43
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
Well ultimately it was god who constructed all the rules: "You do, or not do, X and you go to hell."
.
Well, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn't like that. Basically everyone goes to three kingdoms. The lowest is like earth but much better. The highest you can become Gods under God.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Eternal hell fire, torture, is actually not taught in the Bible. God is not a cosmic himmler who delights in torturing people throughout eternity. The Bible repeats time and time again that the ultimate enemy to humanity is death. How can that be if no one ultimately dies ? According to the Bible, the very first lie ever told was ¨ you won´t die ¨ People make choices about their ultimate destinies. God will not short circuit their choices. Those who choose death will be destroyed by fire ( symbol of cleansing ). They will be totally obliterated, they will in totality cease to exist. The rich man in hades was allegorical.
The thought of a loving God also being a master torturer is repugnant and revolting.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
If you were zapped by the most powerful laser that could be conceived, would you be tortured ? Maybe for one two thousandth of a second ? Less ?
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
If God is omnipresent, we ARE being forced into His presence because it's the only option.
Many sign on to Team God BECAUSE He promises sin without consequence as long as you suck up.
Then why is God there?
Given the rules He's given us, yes, yes He can. You simply don't want to admit to it. He has done MANY things He tells us is objectively wrong.
Then any blessings we get are self-inflicted as well.
Scripture says lots of unsupported things, like Jesus being sinless despite all the sins he clearly commits.
Happens in the bible quite frequently, though. That is why the NT authors love having ignorant people instead of educated people as their audience: they don't want people looking that up.
Great! So abortion isn't killing an individual! So we can neither sin nor do good because only individuals can do that. Heaven and hell is for "humanity" in general, not us in particular!
I don't see the point in having faith in an indifferent/lazy God. I could acknowledge One exists, but you get what you pay for and if God doesn't want to pay up, then He doesn't get the reward.
The ultimate test is to love ourselves despite all that. I will not love a neglectful, abusive parent who wants nothing to do with me and wants all the credit.
Sin can't enter heaven but there can be rebellions, apparently.
I guess if you're a pyromaniac, a lake of fire sounds pretty awesome.
Could go either way:
People have unlimited power. They destroy everything (but could also restore everything what with the whole "unlimited power" part).
People have unlimited power. Just like when you use cheats to get all the unlockables in a video game at the very start, the game gets boring and you stop relying on your cheats.
People like them happens because they don't know what True Power is. They didn't even do all that themselves. They had underlings for that. In their psychotic heads, though, the fact it was happening means they were powerful. They also died because they weren't as powerful as their propaganda suggested.
God's armies being defeated by chariots of iron, not even iron WEAPONS, shows that even a God can bleed.
Parent didn't make the fire nor the way fire works.
We can still arrest them for neglect or abuse.
Parents don't get out of that by saying the child chose to be that way as the buck still stops with the parent.
Which is why he went on a bender after the boat trip.
If he's still there, King Sisyphus would make a much more interesting companion. Plus, we could work together to bust out.
You obviously have no understanding of the bible, discussing anything about God with you would be futile. I don’t know which God you are talking about but the God of the bible does not have any of the characteristics that you imply.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I don’t know why people for some reason always believe what they are told about “burning in hell forever”. Nothing in the bible says anything about that, it says that only Satan will will be tormented night and day forever (Revelation 20:10), and that is most likely because Satan is an immortal being. Humans are not immortal and cannot become immortal unless God gives us access to the tree of life.
That just goes to show that people don’t actually read the bible, and will believe anything that their “religion” tells them.