God's Name is God

[TiggerII]

IMPORTANCE OF THE PERSONAL NAME OF GOD

Since the scriptures Jesus quoted (even in the Septuagint of his era) often used God's personal name, would he, the perfect representative of God and truth, not read what was written in the sacred scriptures?

Is there some reason for actually removing the only personal name of God (YHWH/JHVH) from the nearly 6000 places it is found in the OT manuscripts (including the available pages and fragments from the Greek OT Septuagint up to the beginning of the 2nd century)?

The only personal Name of God, “Jehovah” in traditional English form (or possibly “Yahweh” in ancient Hebrew form), has been removed in most “orthodox” translations from all (or nearly all) the 6000+ places it actually occurs in the ancient manuscripts of the Old Testament!

Reasons for such God-dishonoring “pollution” of his only personal name (Ezek. 39:7, KJV) include: manufactured trinity “evidence” (“special pleading”?); desire for popularity; literary “beauty;” economic considerations; and the traditions of men. One of the few respected “orthodox” scholars honest enough to admit this was Dr. Palmer.

Yes, the late Edwin H. Palmer, Executive Secretary of the NIV Committee on Bible Translation; Coordinator of all translation work on the NIV; and General Editor of The NIV Study Bible by Zondervan (see “Tribute to Edwin H. Palmer”, p. v., The NIV Study Bible, 1985), wrote the following reply to an inquiry about why the NIV did not use God’s personal name (Jehovah) as found nearly 7000 times in all the ancient Bible manuscripts of the Old Testament:

“Here is why we did not: You are right that Jehovah is a distinctive name for God and ideally we should have used it. But we put 2 ¼ million dollars into this translation and a sure way of throwing that down the drain is to translate, for example, Psalm 23 as, ‘Yahweh is my shepherd.’ Immediately, we would have translated for nothing. Nobody would have used it. Oh, maybe you and a handful [of] others. But a Christian has to be also wise and practical. We are the victims of 350 years of the King James tradition. It is far better to get two million to read it - that is how many have bought it to date - and to follow the King James [‘LORD ’] , than to have two thousand buy it and have the CORRECT translation of Yahweh .... It was a hard decision, and many of our translators agree with you.” - Quoted in 15 July 1979 The Watchtower. (My emphasis added)

Notice how a number of the most-respected, “orthodox,” trinitarian Bible study publications address this extremely important issue of God's only personal name:

“Of primary significance is the name of Yahweh [or Jehovah] which he himself made known in his revelation (Gen. 17:1; Exod. 3:14 [and 3:15]; 6:2...). One of the most fundamental and essential features of the biblical revelation is the fact that God is not without a name: he has a personal name [Jehovah or Yahweh], by which he can, and is to be, invoked.” - p. 649, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol. 2, Zondervan, 1986.

And the New Bible Dictionary, Tyndale House Publ., 1984, after telling us on p. 812 that God changed his previously ‘external’ relationship with mankind by revealing his PERSONAL NAME to his people and thereby established with them “the highly personal relationship to a God who has given his people the liberty to call him by name [Yahweh or Jehovah],” further states:

“The name of God is described as his ‘holy name’ more often than all other adjectival qualifications [titles, descriptions, etc.] taken together. It was this sense of the sacredness of the name that finally led to the obtuse [stupid] refusal to use ‘Yahweh’, leading as it has done to a deep loss of the sense of the divine name in [English-language Bibles].” - p. 813, section d.

 

[TiggerII]

And The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia writes:

“5. ‘Jehovah’ - The name most distinctive of God as the God of Israel is Jehovah .... The meaning may with some confidence be inferred ... to be that of the simple future, yahweh, ‘he will be.’ It does not express causation, nor existence in a metaphysical sense, but the covenant promise of the Divine presence, both at the immediate time and in the Messianic age of the future.... It is the personal name of God.... Characteristic of the OT is its insistence on the possible knowledge of God as a person; and Jehovah is His name as a person. It is illogical, certainly, that the later Hebrews should have shrunk from its pronunciation, in view of the appropriateness of the name and of the OT insistence on the personality of God, who as a person has this name. [ASV] quite correctly adopts the transliteration ‘Jehovah’ to emphasize its significance and purpose as a personal name of God revealed.” - , p. 1266, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984.

Also, the trinitarian Today’s Dictionary of the Bible (Bethany House, 1982) says:

“Jeho’vah, the special and significant name (not merely an appellative title such as Lord [or God]) by which God revealed himself .... The Hebrew name ‘Jehovah’ is generally translated [in most English Bibles] by the word ‘LORD’ printed in small capitals to distinguish it from the [honest] rendering of the Hebrew Adonai and the Greek Kurios, which are also rendered ‘Lord,’ but in the usual type.” - p. 330.

The NIV Interlinear Hebrew-English Old Testament admits:

“YHWH, the personal name of God, is always translated ‘Yahweh’ [in this publication], against the practice of the NIV in rendering it as ‘LORD.’ On the one hand, this prevents confusion of this name with the title [‘my-Lord’], for the idea of lordship is not an integral element of the name. On the other hand, perhaps the use of Yahweh in this work will encourage the reader to use the personal name of God in prayer and praise, as is intended by the most common imperative in the Scriptures, [‘Hallelujah’ - ‘praise Jehovah’ (see p. 276, Today’s Dictionary of the Bible)]” - pp. xxvii-xxviii, The NIV Interlinear Hebrew-English Old Testament, Vol. 1, Zondervan, 1979.

And even trinitarian translator and scholar Jay P. Green writes in the Preface of his The Interlinear Bible:

“The only personal name of God that belongs to Him alone was rendered Jehovah or, in its shortened form, Jah. We preferred the transliteration JHWH (thus Jehovah) over YHWH (or Yahweh) because this is established English usage for Bible names beginning with this letter (e.g., Jacob and Joseph). - p. v, Baker Book House, 1982.

“Jehovah denotes specifically the one true God, whose people the Jews were, and who made them the guardians of his truth. .... The substitution of the word 'Lord' is most unhappy, for it in no way represents the meaning of the sacred name.” - p. 220, Smith’s Bible Dictionary, Hendrickson Publ.

And the translators of the highly-praised American Standard Version (ASV) wrote about their translation:

“The change ... which substitutes ‘Jehovah’ for ‘LORD’ and ‘GOD’ (printed in small capitals) - is one which will be unwelcome to many, because of the frequency and familiarity of the terms displaced. But the American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament.... This personal name, with its wealth of sacred associations, is now restored to the place in the sacred text to which it has an unquestionable claim.” - Preface, p. iv, American Standard Version, Thomas Nelson and Sons.

Commenting on this restoration of God's personal name in the ASV, The Presbyterian and Reformed Review said in 1902:

"We cannot understand how there can be any difference of opinion as to the rightness of this step. This is the Lord's personal name, by which He has elected to be known by His people: the loss suffered by transmuting it into His descriptive title seems to us immense. To be sure there are disputes as to the true form of the name, and nobody supposes that 'Jehovah' is that true form. But it has the value of the true form to the English reader; and it would be mere pedantry to substitute for it Yahwe or any other forms now used with more or less inaccuracy by scholastic writers. We account it no small gain for the English reader of the Old Testament that he will for the first time in this popular version meet statedly with 'Jehovah' and learn all that 'Jehovah' has been to and done for His people."

(Remember how even the KJV itself – and others - admits, in effect, that “Jehovah” should be understood in the New Testament: most editions of the KJV use “LORD” - which is recognized by all knowledgeable Bible scholars as the “code” for “Jehovah” in the KJV and most other versions - at Matt. 22:44; Mark 12:36; Luke 20:42; Acts 2:34; etc.)

So, rather than “have the correct translation of Yahweh [or Jehovah],” as Dr. Palmer admits above, nearly all Bible translations have dishonestly translated this extremely important Name of God as “LORD”!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

................................................

“How long shall there be lies in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, and who prophesy the deceit of their own heart, who think to make my people forget my name by their dreams which they tell one another, even as their fathers forgot my name for Baal [‘Lord’]?” - Jer. 23:26-27, RSV. “Our fathers have inherited nought but lies, .... they shall know that my name is Jehovah.” - Jer. 16:19,21, ASV.

“God said further to Moses, You tell the Israelites: JEHOVAH ... has sent me to you. This is My name forever and by this I am to be remembered through all generations.” - Ex. 3:15, MLB (Cf. NEB, LB, ASV, KJIIV).

“Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, [O Jehovah - ASV] .... That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” - Ps. 83:16, 18, KJV, LB.

“HALLELUJAH [‘Praise JEHOVAH’]! O servants of Jehovah, praise his name.
Blessed is his name forever and forever.” - Ps. 113:1, 2 - Living Bible.

If you are going to make a big deal over God's name, it is not Jehovah. We may not know how to pronounce the yad hey vav hey, but we do know for sure that it's not Jehovah since there is no J sound in hebrew.

 

[TiggerII]

If you are going to make a big deal over God's name, it is not Jehovah. We may not know how to pronounce the yad hey vav hey, but we do know for sure that it's not Jehovah since there is no J sound in hebrew.

..............................................
I believe that was covered in my posts. For those who rely on the KJV, Ps 83:18 should cover it also. It is considered by many as an influencing factor in the English language for the past 400 years.

If we cannot use "Jehovah as found in the KJV, we must not use "Jesus" (who so many consider to be God) either.

However, I would not object to those who have put the pronunciation of "Yahweh" into the English language also.

In either case the personal name in the English language (not "Lord") should be used as God has commanded.

It is not I making a big deal out the use of God's name - - - it is God in so many places in the scriptures.

“How long shall there be lies in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, and who prophesy the deceit of their own heart, who think to make my people forget my name by their dreams which they tell one another, even as their fathers forgot my name for Baal [‘Lord’]?” - Jer. 23:26-27, RSV. “Our fathers have inherited nought but lies, .... they shall know that my name is Jehovah.” - Jer. 16:19,21, ASV.

“God said further to Moses, You tell the Israelites: JEHOVAH ... has sent me to you. This is My name forever and by this I am to be remembered through all generations.” - Ex. 3:15, MLB (Cf. NEB, LB, ASV, KJIIV).

“Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, [O Jehovah - ASV] .... That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” - Ps. 83:16, 18, KJV, LB.

“HALLELUJAH [‘Praise JEHOVAH’]! O servants of Jehovah, praise his name.
Blessed is his name forever and forever.” - Ps. 113:1, 2 - Living Bible.

 

[101G]

Oh, I don't think God cares by what name we address him. He only cares that we DO talk to him.

NO, If I called you sally sue and your mane is Mary would you answer? especially if someone else had the sally sue.

101G.

 

[101G]

If you are going to make a big deal over God's name, it is not Jehovah. We may not know how to pronounce the yad hey vav hey, but we do know for sure that it's not Jehovah since there is no J sound in hebrew.

no big deal when he told us who he is ib name. ,,,,, (smile)

ok, let's prove it out.
Exodus 6:2 "And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:" Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

so Abraham did not the Name Jehovah, correct? so why is it in Abraham mouth? Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen."

well now, did God almighty LIE? NO, so why is Jehovah in Abraham Mouth? and Genesis do come before Exodus,

101G.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

..............................................
I believe that was covered in my posts. For those who rely on the KJV, Ps 83:18 should cover it also. It is considered by many as an influencing factor in the English language for the past 400 years.

If we cannot use "Jehovah as found in the KJV, we must not use "Jesus" (who so many consider to be God) either.

However, I would not object to those who have put the pronunciation of "Yahweh" into the English language also.

In either case the personal name in the English language (not "Lord") should be used as God has commanded.

It is not I making a big deal out the use of God's name - - - it is God in so many places in the scriptures.

“How long shall there be lies in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, and who prophesy the deceit of their own heart, who think to make my people forget my name by their dreams which they tell one another, even as their fathers forgot my name for Baal [‘Lord’]?” - Jer. 23:26-27, RSV. “Our fathers have inherited nought but lies, .... they shall know that my name is Jehovah.” - Jer. 16:19,21, ASV.

“God said further to Moses, You tell the Israelites: JEHOVAH ... has sent me to you. This is My name forever and by this I am to be remembered through all generations.” - Ex. 3:15, MLB (Cf. NEB, LB, ASV, KJIIV).

“Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, [O Jehovah - ASV] .... That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” - Ps. 83:16, 18, KJV, LB.

“HALLELUJAH [‘Praise JEHOVAH’]! O servants of Jehovah, praise his name.
Blessed is his name forever and forever.” - Ps. 113:1, 2 - Living Bible.

Nothing you wrote changes a thing I said.

 

[DNB]

DEBATE IS WELCOMED!

“To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of Him who is holy and true,
Who holds the key of David. What He opens no one
can shut, and what He shuts no one can open.

I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you
an open door that no one can shut. I know that
you have little strength, yet you have kept My
word and have not denied My name.

Revelation 3:7-8.

And indeed, we have not denied His Name.
I am relating this speech to each of the readers.

``He doesn't understand that he is the one who has
the power to stop it. He [simply] cannot imagine
that one little boy could be that important. He
has to give me a new name'' in ``The Neverending
Story (9/10) Movie CLIP - Call My Name (1984)''.

And the Holy Bible agrees: ``My new name''
Revelation 3:12. I will raise my right hand, I will
shout it out loud: ``God's Name is God!''

Definition of the True God:
``He is the Person, whose name is God.''

Nobody can outgrow your God if you have the True God. It does not matter
if you are an atheist. You cannot do it. Another god cannot do it. The moment
that has happened, a better god is needed. But remember, you cannot
be over the Holy Trinity: ``They shouted, ``This is the voice of a god, not of a man.''
Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord
struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.'' Acts 12:22-23.

``The Lord is His name!'' Amos 5:8. So, the Lord is the name of God, but
God is not the name of God? Strange and inconsistent situation. Why is God a
title (or a profession) and not a name? There are many gods: ``there are
so-called gods.'' 1 Corinthians 8:5. And since God is the name, the rest of the
gods are false gods, having stolen God's name.

More in:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360014214_INFINITIES_IN_RIEMANN_AND_ABC_CONJECTURES

Exodus 3:14 is where God formerly told Moses how He is to be referred to: 'Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh' , which, of course, is more of a concept than a name i.e. I am that I am, I will be what I will be, I am becoming what I will be, ...
Although God made it clear what His name is in the incident at the burning bush , all the same, God refers to Himself in many other ways depending on the context, and this is expected as God is all powerful and all knowing - how can one phrase or expression sum up all His attributes and qualities.
But, YHWH is the correct manner in which to speak of Him if one wants to be specific, and not use an ambiguous or less honourable appellation.

 

[101G]

to all,
the Lord Jesus said, John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

and the Father Name is "JESUS". what's so hard to UNDERSTAND?

101G

 

[IndigoChild5559]

to all,
the Lord Jesus said, John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

and the Father Name is "JESUS". what's so hard to UNDERSTAND?

101G

If I say "I come in the name of the King," it doesn't follow that my name is the name of the King.

 

[101G]

If I say "I come in the name of the King," it doesn't follow that my name is the name of the King.

King is not his Name, but a title of the person, try again.

101G.

 

[101G]

@IndigoChild5559
let use scripture, so that it will be no guessing.
Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."

now let's see that DAY, John 8:19 "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:20 "These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come." John 8:21 "Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come." John 8:22 "Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come." John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

I AM HE, it's like reading a newspaper from the OT.

but like the Lord Jesus said, "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

101G.

 

[muhammad_isa]

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

Right .. well I believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
I do not believe that Jesus is God, however.

To me, that is pretty meaningless.
Jesus cannot worship God, if He is God .. it is gibberish.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

King is not his Name, but a title of the person, try again.

101G.

That's right, but that is not the illogical remark you made. You were quoted "I come in the name of the Father," and then concluded that the name of the father was the name of the person speaking, Jesus. It's really a serious, and very obvious, mistake. I tried to point out to you the error of your logic by making the identical error in my analogy: If Joe says "I come in the name of the king" does that mean the name of the king is Joe? No obviously not. Nor does Jesus coming in the name of the father mean that the name of the father is Jesus.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

@IndigoChild5559
let use scripture, so that it will be no guessing.
Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."

now let's see that DAY, John 8:19 "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:20 "These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come." John 8:21 "Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come." John 8:22 "Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come." John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

I AM HE, it's like reading a newspaper from the OT.

but like the Lord Jesus said, "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

101G.

The name of God is yad hey vav hey. That is how you understand Isaiah.

I am a Jew. I do not accept the gospels as authoritative. I have explained this to you more than once. Why do you continue to make arguements to me using the NT as your "evidence" knowing that it will roll off my back? I'm going to start doing the same to you, so that you will learn. Every time you quote the NT to me, I'm going to quote something like the Book of Mormon or Quran back at you.

 

[101G]

Right .. well I believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
I do not believe that Jesus is God, however.

To me, that is pretty meaningless.
Jesus cannot worship God, if He is God .. it is gibberish.

are you sure that JESUS is not God? let's check the record. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

so the LORD, whom you call God was a. ALONE, and b. BY HIMSELF when he made all things.... correct.

now this,

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

so, muhammad_isa. was the book of John lying when it said the Word Made all things. remember this is God lead testimony by John.

your answer please.

101G.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

are you sure that JESUS is not God? let's check the record. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

so the LORD, whom you call God was a. ALONE, and b. BY HIMSELF when he made all things.... correct.

now this,

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

so, muhammad_isa. was the book of John lying when it said the Word Made all things. remember this is God lead testimony by John.

your answer please.

101G.

So you quote the gospel to a Muslim that Jesus is God, and the Muslim is going to quote back from the quran that Jesus was not God. What have you accomplished?

 

[muhammad_isa]

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

so, muhammad_isa. was the book of John lying when it said the Word Made all things. remember this is God lead testimony by John.

Books don't lie.

The author of John, wrote some philosophical prose that resembles Philo's logos, as in Hellenistic Jewish philosophy .. with the added twist of incarnating into Jesus.
The author probably thought that he was being very clever, and believed it to be true.

However, Jesus is not reported to have said anything about a logos, and that he was God incarnate.

Clearly, those who chose the Bible canon wanted that Gospel included.
The canon was not really finalised until ~380CE at the Council of Rome.

How do you vote sir?
I say throw it out ..
..well you are outvoted .. Jesus is God, so there.

 

[101G]

That's right, but that is not the illogical remark you made. You were quoted "I come in the name of the Father," and then concluded that the name of the father was the name of the person speaking, Jesus. It's really a serious, and very obvious, mistake. I tried to point out to you the error of your logic by making the identical error in my analogy: If Joe says "I come in the name of the king" does that mean the name of the king is Joe? No obviously not. Nor does Jesus coming in the name of the father mean that the name of the father is Jesus.

unless the KING name is Joe ..... and here the Father name is JESUS.

now I ask you is not the LORD, the First and the Last? yes, and is not the LORD the Father? yes.

now this, is not JESUS the First and the Last? yes, and is not the "Lord" Father? yes.

now if this is not the same "one" person then you have two First and Last, meaning you have two Fathers.

101G has only one Father.... and his Name is "JESUS".

101G.

 

[101G]

The name of God is yad hey vav hey. That is how you understand Isaiah.

God name is Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin, it is a masculine noun that means, "He is salvation" or "He saves”. for only God SAVES. H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.

I am a Jew. I do not accept the gospels as authoritative.

that's your problem, not 101G.

Why do you continue to make arguements to me using the NT as your "evidence" knowing that it will roll off my back? I'm going to start doing the same to you, so that you will learn. Every time you quote the NT to me, I'm going to quote something like the Book of Mormon or Quran back at you.

you're on your own.... and as for you hebrew text...... listen, Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." that's all..... just for reference. NEXT.

101G.