I think it is wrong to label people and put them into these unchanging, unforgiving, categories.
Okay, again with this set in stone label thing. Why is it do you consider these labels, if you like, that I have used unchanging and unforgiving? I'm not the one encouraging or even discouraging anyone to repent. It's a free country after all. But I am curious, because this is probably the heart of our miscommunication.
I believe both acts should be condemned, but perhaps it is because no one is having “Fornicator Pride Parades”?
I thought that was what you Americans called Spring Break?
And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't (both) our media glorify sex?
So again why all the backlash for only the gays?
(Also apologies if you're not actually American. Most are on this site, so I assumed you were.)
We are all sinners. We all just sin differently. We all need repentance. We all rely on the same God.
Sure. But in my religion we don't really ask gay people to repent. They just sort of exist as a part of life. They even have their own deity to protect them. Just saying, there are other options out there.
It would stand to reason that sexual sins would begin to manifest when we begin to sexually mature.
Uhh, okay then.
Again, you should be able to tell me because you are the one who wants to put them into the same box as those who actually acted on their lewd desires
I don't actually. What makes you think I do?
You would slap them both with the “pedophile” label even though one fought against it every second of every day and never faltered while the other indulged themselves and took advantage of little children?
Well, I would encourage them to seek professional help. Not just for their sake, but for the safety of those around them.
I'm not saying they are the same as abusers, per se. I'm simply saying that that's the definition of a pedophile.
What do you have against dictionaries anyway?
Pedophilia | Psychology Today
- Pedophilia is defined as an
ongoing sexual attraction to pre-pubertal children.
No one is saying that a pedophile can't get help or avoid hurting anyone. All a pedophile is is a person who has attractions to prepubescents. That doesn't automatically disqualify them from being a productive safe member of society (although they probably would be under more scrutiny by default. People tend to be protective of kids after all.)
Are you under the impression that these labels, as you call them, define a person's very existence? That's a little unhealthy to chain yourself so much to a "label" like that. Just saying. I mean all these "labels" do is provide a specific definition for the sake of easy communication between people. They're not mandatory instructions on how to live one's life.
Nice attempt at a red herring. Attack my character to distract from the argument?
Hyperbole mixed with my usual dark, snarky, insulting sense of humour. Nothing more than a bit of levity. Relax. I mock everything and everyone, including myself.
Look, I know my comments can come across as judgmental and as though I think less of anyone who disagrees with me. So I'm putting in a disclaimer, so to speak.
My rather dark sense of humour tends to colour all of my communication. So I don't think less of anyone that I am debating. Really I don't. But again, since I usually mock everything and everyone, I think it's easy to infer such things when reading my comments.
We all have the potential or desire to commit sin, but it would not be Just to convict someone just because they had the potential or desire to commit the sin.
A person cannot be guilty of murder just for having the potential to commit the crime.
Sure, a particular person may have an explosive and violent temper, has been in fights in the past, and may even have claimed that he will kill someone, but until he actually commits the deed - he is not a murderer!
It would not be Just to label a person “rapist” if they had never committed rape or “murderer” if they had never murdered someone.
Alright, following you so far.
Therefore, since homosexual behavior is a crime (according to God) it would not be Just for Him to label anyone “homosexual” who never once engaged in homosexual behavior.
Okay, fair enough....
But see, why is it a crime? That I think is what people have trouble with. Murder hurts a person, so it's reasonable to ascribe the definition of crime onto it. Same as theft, rape, even incest if you count increased genetic diseases. Bestiality and pedophilic actions, if you prefer, always happen with a person or non human animal that cannot give fully informed consent. So you have all these actions with a real world context as to why they would be considered "bad" even if you remove the Bible from the equation. So I guess it's more understandable to people. Like oh yeah, that's predictable reasonable morality, good on you Bible.
But in today's modern world, with safe sex, medicine to help remedy sexual diseases and more sensitive definitions of what is and isn't acceptable in a healthy relationship, homosexuality just doesn't seem to fit into that category anymore. Back in the day before condoms and well antibiotics really, it kind of makes sense to stress sex within marriage to ensure a lackluster spread of STIs. I mean it didn't, but it tried at least.
Nowadays, it's just this innocuous thing that is a hangover from an ancient time. Perhaps you would argue that that is just the world drifting away from God. And I can actually sympathize with that view, honestly I can.
But the pragmatist in me would argue that a God would be able to update itself to the changing understandings of its creations. As we learn more and more about the world, so should the creator update the relationship it has with us. And that includes new rules, if you like.
And yeah, I know, scripture is the final word of God. But I think we're due for a new publication.
I guess that's why I, and it seems many others, can't quite gel with religions of the Book anymore. It just makes less and less sense, and without a patch to help us out, it becomes more and more alien to people. Pushing people away instead of embracing them with the same compassion as Jesus taught. Now I don't know if you'd consider me "saved" but I do actually accept Jesus. Probably not the way Christians may prefer, well the hardliners anyway. But there you are.
The entire premise of this thread is to talk about why God opposes homosexual behavior.
Are you lost?
Ahh, see. I knew you couldn't resist a bit of snark. Fun, no?
Well I haven't really seen a clear cut answer as to why. Just a lot of, the scripture says this and something about sexual purity.
That might work in certain religious circles, others need a little more convincing though. Like I said above.
I would want to be free to express my opinions concerning religious, moral and spiritual matters whenever and to whomever I wished.
Well sure. I would not stand in your way.
The only time I take real issue with such espoused opinions is when it tries to legislate everybody. That ain't cool. Also when it knocks on my door at like 8am on a Sunday. The Lord made the Sabbath a day of rest, after all. Those are my only gripes, really. Otherwise preach as you traverse the streets, for all I care.
What you see on this board is merely my boredom and perhaps a protective tendency towards my gay relatives.
So I guess we both are expressing our opinions concerning religious, moral and spiritual matters. We just happen to disagree on homosexuality as a whole.
(Wow, that was longer than I thought it would be.)
