God's opposition to homosexuality. Why?

[BruceDLimber]

Apparently because homosexual acts are somehow damaging to our spiritual progress . . .

(This is the reason for many prohibitions, please note!)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[CaptainBritain]

Do not think its anything more than the personal point of view of the Holy books very human writers, I would imagine if there was a God worthy of worship he would not be a bigot and nor would he create so many gay animals in over 150 observed species, if got hates homosexuality he has an odd way of showing it in his creation, if anything id say he is all for it and any other flavour that takes your fancy too, three in a bed, multiple partners, kinky parties you name it(we if he dont like kink he is mad, I love the parties).

Its just one of those areas where secular morals shines and bronze age morals look thier age is all.

 

[Skwim]

Because the ancient goat-herders who wrote the bible thought homosexuality was yucky.

We're pretending this isn't the case.

Apparently because homosexual acts are somehow damaging to our spiritual progress . . .

(This is the reason for many prohibitions, please note!)

Ok, but then we'd still be back at the original question, "Why?" Why would the mutual sexual expression between people of the same sex damage spiritual progress? Simply claiming a possible outcome isn't enough.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

If one accepts the passages cited as those inspired of god, and their interpretation in accordance with conservative Christian understanding, can anyone explain why the Christian god finds homosexuality "detestable" and worthy of "punishment of eternal fire"?

I'm not a Christian, and I believe that we make God in our own image. So I think it was the Eww-factor -- put into God's mind by those who claimed to speak for him -- along with the fear and hatred which (primitive) people feel toward anything which is outside of the cultural norm.

Unfortunately, sacred books can't be changed. So modern followers are forced to do some serious mind-twisting in order to accept homosexuality as God-approved.

 

[Skwim]

Unfortunately, sacred books can't be changed. So modern followers are forced to do some serious mind-twisting in order to accept homosexuality as God-approved.

To a degree I agree. THIS one seems to be just such an attempt (I only skimmed it.)

 

[McBell]

Gay society is rife with drugs and disease. They keep neither within their community, but share that gift with us all, for one example. Individually, the very acts that are part of homosexual sex can and do injure the participants, driving our health care costs up.

Now try giving a reason that does not equally apply to the heterosexual society...
Otherwise you right back to square one with regards to what the OP is asking.

 

[waitasec]

Apparently because homosexual acts are somehow damaging to our spiritual progress . . .

(This is the reason for many prohibitions, please note!)

Peace,

Bruce

how so?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

To a degree I agree. THIS one seems to be just such an attempt (I only skimmed it.)

Really, I consider 'scriptures' to be poisonous to human thought.

We should all accept that if there is such a thing as a "prophet of God," we are as likely to be that prophet as anyone else has ever been.

Imagine how much intellectual energy we could save if we just tossed out the middleman.

 

[Marble]

I don't think God is opposed to homosexuality, only (some of) those who believe they speak in his name are.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I don't think God is opposed to homosexuality, only (some of) those who believe they speak in his name are.

Offtopic, I've gotta ask: Does the frog have a bellyache or is he just chilling?

I hope he didn't get ahold of some bad fish.

 

[Marble]

Offtopic, I've gotta ask: Does the frog have a bellyache or is he just chilling?

I hope he didn't get ahold of some bad fish.

Frogy just eat too much.

 

[idav]

The following are "typical interpretations by religious conservatives" as presented by Religioustolerance.org.

Genesis 19 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior, whether by two men, two women, within a loving committed relationship or a "one-night stand."

Leviticus 18:22 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Leviticus 20:13 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Romans 1:26-27 Condemns all homosexual behavior as unnatural.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death. Once truly saved, homosexuals will become heterosexuals.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Jude 1:7 Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death.
source

​

If one accepts the passages cited as those inspired of god, and their interpretation in accordance with conservative Christian understanding, can anyone explain why the Christian god finds homosexuality "detestable" and worthy of "punishment of eternal fire"?

I know I'm asking people here to second guess god and his reasoning, but because so many Christians are keen to speak for him on numerous issues I figure some here would have a good insight into his thinking. So, Just what is it about showing sexual affection toward someone of the same sex that turns off god? Is it just some eeeeew factor, or does it go deeper than this?

For such a horrible sin, you would think something would be in the gospels. The gospel of Matthew has quite the list of no no's but Jesus sums it up by saying love god and thy neighbor.

Romans implication atheist become gay as well as Corinthians saying only truly saved people are straight is kinda retarded IMO. There was only one sin Jesus named as unforgivable and homosexuality wasn't even a sin he named.

 

[Skwim]

For such a horrible sin, you would think something would be in the gospels. The gospel of Matthew has quite the list of no no's but Jesus sums it up by saying love god and thy neighbor.

Possibly, but then I'm not a Biblical scholar.

Romans implication atheist become gay as well as Corinthians saying only truly saved people are straight is kinda retarded IMO. There was only one sin Jesus named as unforgivable and homosexuality wasn't even a sin he named.

Is it important that Jesus didn't name it?

 

[idav]

Possibly, but then I'm not a Biblical scholar.

Is it important that Jesus didn't name it?

It is highly suspect that he didn't mention anything but there are warnings about adultery and even lust. That he didn't mention it specifically doesn't fit the rest of the NT implying that it is one of the worst sins next to being an atheist. He would at least mention the worst sins if it is as an important issue as many Christians claim.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

It is highly suspect that he didn't mention anything but there are warnings about adultery and even lust. That he didn't mention it specifically doesn't fit the rest of the NT implying that it is one of the worst sins next to being an atheist. He would at least mention the worst sins if it is as an important issue as many Christians claim.

I've heard people argue that Jesus may have been gay himself. Something about him hanging out in the Garden of Gethsemene with a young man... and maybe his standoffishness with Mary?

Me, I'm thinking that homosexuality was so deep underground in that culture that it may not have occurred to the gospel writers to include a prohibition against it.

On the other hand, weren't the gospel-writers Greek? It's possible that the opposite is true -- that homosexuality was so accepted in their culture that they didn't think to (have Jesus) condemn it.

 

[idav]

I've heard people argue that Jesus may have been gay himself. Something about him hanging out in the Garden of Gethsemene with a young man... and maybe his standoffishness with Mary?

Me, I'm thinking that homosexuality was so deep underground in that culture that it may not have occurred to the gospel writers to include a prohibition against it.

On the other hand, weren't the gospel-writers Greek? It's possible that the opposite is true -- that homosexuality was so accepted in their culture that they didn't think to (have Jesus) condemn it.

I think they were pretty aware of it and if the time frame fits they probably had bath houses too. I have thought maybe Paul was gay and expressed his frustrations in Romans about the flesh vs. the spirit. The way the Romans were labeled as atheistic heathens with every form of depravity leading to homosexuality, paints the Romans like they are Vegas. What happens in Rome stays in Rome type thing and Paul may have visited quite frequently .

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Apparently because homosexual acts are somehow damaging to our spiritual progress . . .

Because Baha'u'llah said so?

If not that, why do you think homosexuality is damaging to our spiritual progress?

 

[Acim]

The following are "typical interpretations by religious conservatives" as presented by Religioustolerance.org.

Genesis 19 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior, whether by two men, two women, within a loving committed relationship or a "one-night stand."

Leviticus 18:22 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Leviticus 20:13 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Romans 1:26-27 Condemns all homosexual behavior as unnatural.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death. Once truly saved, homosexuals will become heterosexuals.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 Condemns all same-sex sexual behavior.

Jude 1:7 Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death.
source

​

If one accepts the passages cited as those inspired of god, and their interpretation in accordance with conservative Christian understanding, can anyone explain why the Christian god finds homosexuality "detestable" and worthy of "punishment of eternal fire"?

I know I'm asking people here to second guess god and his reasoning, but because so many Christians are keen to speak for him on numerous issues I figure some here would have a good insight into his thinking. So, Just what is it about showing sexual affection toward someone of the same sex that turns off god? Is it just some eeeeew factor, or does it go deeper than this?

I cannot, for life of me, see Genesis 19 as condemning of homosexuality (specifically). I gather the sentiment is derived from 19:5, but I strongly believe it is misrepresentation of what is being said there to look at it as later resulting in condemnation due to homosexuality. More like a judgment against intolerance.

Leviticus 18:22 is without explanation. The understanding, I believe, is "we are to obey the Lord's laws, in order to live under His guidance."

Leviticus 20:13 is without explanation. Essentially same understanding is one I just cited above.

Romans 1:26-27 is explained, I think, as men and women intentionally betraying the commandment along lines of "do not covet." By not only coveting physical bodies and acting on this, Paul is declaring that God views this behavior as godlessness. Instead of giving praise to the Creator (invisible), they instead glorified the body, and did so in ways that were beyond the 'normal' relations of man-wife procreation. And since, Paul understands God in this passage to be full of wrath, it is to be understood that God is causing them great shame in their choices (for lust).

I would just like to stipulate that I am responding on basis of OP: "If one accepts the passages cited as those inspired of god, and their interpretation in accordance with conservative Christian understanding, can anyone explain why the Christian god finds homosexuality "detestable" and worthy of "punishment of eternal fire"?"
> And would state that I do not believe Paul was connected with Christ (consciousness) at time of these admonishing remarks. I further believe that it is misrepresentation for Christians to believe it is up to them to condemn the acts that Paul is speaking to, and instead, are being instructed I feel to leave Judgment to God.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 does not explain why homosexuality is detestable. I also do not see it as conveying, "Once truly saved, homosexuals will become heterosexuals." I think that would be misrepresentation. To me the passage, again, is about not judging each other, especially as both (parties) are believers of Christ. I see it as saying, okay so you WERE sexually immoral (according to your judgments of each other), but you are or we are beyond that. Christ has brought salvation unto you.

1 Timothy 1: 9-10 - again is about judgment for lawbreakers. Again, not up to humans to decide on how to adapt human indiscretions toward controversial speculations. Instead, we (Christians) bring Love (God's supreme law) to the situations as witnesses for Christ. This Law was made for those who have lost their way (however that may show up) and advances God's work. Just like doctors aren't asked to heal other doctors, Christians are not asked to demonstrate Love for those they deem as righteous, but instead (by their own judgments) those who are deemed 'lost.' Love is the proper response.

Jude 1:7 indeed purports that sexually immoral persons who are not repentant (believers) will suffer eternal fire. Yet, like Genesis 19, I do not see this as condemning homosexuality specifically. I think certain believers wish to overlay that interpretation and are, I believe, misrepresenting the passage, much less the spirit of the revelation.

On a side note, perhaps worthy of explanation in another thread, I am one who believes LORD God is not Creator God, and feel Genesis 1 and 2 makes this fairly clear with anyone who is truly listening. IMO, LORD God is not worthy of obedience and is a false god.

I'll also just add that it is not clear to me in any of the passages you asked to be referenced, why God detests homosexuality. That he "just does" is for some, not a matter of dispute and for sake of discussion I hear OP calling forth, doesn't matter. The question is why, and I feel it is not explained in most of these passages, and way under explained in the rest. I also think, as noted several times, it is gross misrepresentation for any human / believer to uphold the condemnation of such acts as if God has instructed us to do so.

 

[Skwim]

I cannot, for life of me, see Genesis 19 as condemning of homosexuality (specifically). I gather the sentiment is derived from 19:5, but I strongly believe it is misrepresentation of what is being said there to look at it as later resulting in condemnation due to homosexuality. More like a judgment against intolerance.

Gotta remember that all of these are what Religioustolerance.org says are "typical interpretations by religious conservatives." I can't argue one way or the other about the validity of the alleged interpretations.

I'll also just add that it is not clear to me in any of the passages you asked to be referenced, why God detests homosexuality. That he "just does" is for some, not a matter of dispute and for sake of discussion I hear OP calling forth, doesn't matter. The question is why, and I feel it is not explained in most of these passages, and way under explained in the rest. I also think, as noted several times, it is gross misrepresentation for any human / believer to uphold the condemnation of such acts as if God has instructed us to do so.

But assuming god's actions are right and righteous actions then I can see his followers following suit. If he hates onions then that's good enough for them. Onions deserve to be hated.

 

[Acim]

But assuming god's actions are right and righteous actions then I can see his followers following suit. If he hates onions then that's good enough for them. Onions deserve to be hated.

You'd think, right? Follower's following suit.

But if God says, Love your neighbor as yourself, and Christian 'neighbors' are demonstrating division instead of unity, then following suit may not be so easy, as they purport.

But I very much agree, some people want to believe "God hates homosexuals, therefore I must as well, since God does it."

Apparently ignoring passages in vein of "judge not" and "vengeance be Mine." Essentially all those that make it, I would say abundantly clear, that humans are not to be judges against each other. "Unless you are without sin, do not cast stones." Yadda yadda yadda.

I'm not shy, generally speaking, about confronting a (so called) Christian on these very points. At same time, it can be tad tricky if I'm suddenly judging against 'them' for judging against others. Gotta remember, for myself, that charity begins at home.