Good meat, bad meat

[Druidus]

I can site studies that show that plants reccognize injuries and react to them.. ie they feel pain.

This is not feeling pain. Even braindead people heal over time; they react to injury.

They communicate that 'pain' both to other plants (ie the accacia and lima beans who signal each other to produce foul tasteing chemicals)and to insect helpers (ie corn when attacted sends a chemical distress signal to pedatory wasps).

Again, not actually feeling pain. A reaction to injury, and an involuntary one, at that.

Plants cannot, in any way, feel pain. Nothing within a plant has the capability to feel pain. They may "recognize" injury (though not in a thoughtful manner), but they cannot feel the pain.

Do not think I am underestimating plants. I've merged with the soul of a tree (long story), and I was there for several hours. Trees (and probably plants) don't percieve the world the same as us. They have an awareness of a sorts, but they cannot think (at least not as we do), and not once while I was merged did I feel pain of any sort. I understand that this is not proof of any sort beyond anecdotal, but I know what happened.

 

[Fluffy]

I can site studies that show that plants reccognize injuries and react to them.. ie they feel pain.

Does the discomfort which many normally associate with pain not feature in your defintion or was it merely excluded from the one given above?

 

[john313]

I can site studies that show that plants reccognize injuries and react to them.. ie they feel pain.

some humans actually cannot feel pain. if one of these people was walking and his femur broke, he would probably fall down then would probably go to the MD and get a cast. he recognized the injury and react to it without the sensation of pain. reaction to an outside stimuli does not mean something is feeling pain. when a fly lands on me i brush it away even though it does not hurt and it would likely not cause any pain if i left it alone.

 

[kreeden]

Fluffy , as many words in the English language , pain has several definations . A simple defination is to make suffer or to hurt . I don't think that anyone is trying to say that plants are as complex as humans , or that they " feel " pain the same way we do . But they DO react to physical stress , which implies that they " feel " pain in their own way .

And I AM NOT saying that eating meat is better then not eating meat . There are pros and cons to both arguements , and I don't see a " better " way in either . This thread started off being about " humane ways of harvesting meat " not about if it is morally right or wrong to eat meat . If it makes one feel better not to eat meat , then don't . But that is what it comes down to , how one feels about it . And there really is no need to justify it beyond that .

 

[kreeden]

Druidus , have you ever been laughed at , by a Tree ?

Tell your Tree what a superior life form it is . After all , it has never killed anything to survive , has it ?

I never said that plants percieve the world the same as we do . You and I don't percieve the world the same , so why would plants ?

 

[Druidus]

Kree, I never said I was superior than a tree, if this is what you imply.

 

[kreeden]

No , I said that the Tree was superior . You have been the cause of death , but the Tree hasn't .

I'm messing with you Druidus , but think about it .

 

[Fluffy]

Fluffy , as many words in the English language , pain has several definations . A simple defination is to make suffer or to hurt . I don't think that anyone is trying to say that plants are as complex as humans , or that they " feel " pain the same way we do . But they DO react to physical stress , which implies that they " feel " pain in their own way .

Agreed. I merely think that it is the discomfort aspect of pain that makes it immoral to hurt other humans or animals. Since plants do not feel such discomfort, I cannot rationally justifying not eating them.

 

[painted wolf]

You mean the discomfort that makes plants move away from sources of stress?
Or give off distress signals that we 'higher' beings can't perceve?

unless you really know what is going on in the information processing parts of the plant then you simply don't know. They do process information, they communicate to each other and to insects via chemical signals and they respond to these chemical signals.

The truth is that life feeds on life... you can not escape the fact that for you to live another must die. Ultimatly it is about having respect for that life.

NOW back on topic...
The worst source of meat is easily WalMart. Not only do they use factory farming methods but they have an appaling reccord in safety of thier meats...
In order to provide low cost and high volume, thier supliers cut corners in processing... this leads to increasing ammounts of conatamination by fecal and other matters that lead to illnesses...
I've heard figures as high as 40% or more of thier beef is infected with E.coli..

Fortunatly smaller providers take time to process meats in a safer way... they are not using lower prices and higher volumes to make thier money, but lower volume and higher quality.

wa:do