Good News

[CMike]

The word Gospel means "Good News". When Christians talk about that some of them believe these good news mean, that Jesus died for us on the cross. I have a different view on this subject.
Take f.e. that Jesus forbid divorce. Why did He do this? The reason was, that jewish husbands divorced from their wives, and these divorced wives became homeless, and usually they couldn't survive, they died. If Jesus would not forbid divorce His followers would do the same thing, in other words Jesus protected women from being outcasts.
Also for other people there were good news. Take f.e. the slaves. They found themselves accepted as equal to all men. It was also good news for all citizens of the Roman Empire, because they were relieved from worshipping the Cesar as god. But what does this mean for us today? We do not have those problems! Our problems are different. Ok, we have homeless people, we have slavery, but because of world wide commercial reasons. And also, there is no Cesar.
This world is different from the small mediterranean world of the ancient christian world. This world has become a village. What we need today is a common believe for all mankind. That is why I believe all these old religions are out of date. None of the big worldreligions can meet our needs.

Can you provide some evidence that jewish divorced women starved and died?

Jews are commanded to give money to the needy so I would love to see some backup for that statement.

G-D allowed for divorce. He speaks about rules of divorce in the Torah.

 

[hexler]

No, it isn't. Evolution has no direction; it's purely reactive.

If you want to know something on evolution read something like this:
Joseph Chilton Pearce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[1137]

No, it isn't. Evolution has no direction; it's purely reactive.

This is correct, as poetic as the OP's view sounds.

 

[McBell]

If you want to know something on evolution read something like this:
Joseph Chilton Pearce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What does your link have to do with Evolution?

 

[hexler]

@ CMike
Here it is:
Condemnation Of Divorce

If we would take the basics of the Christian faith seriously, then we must begin with what Jesus actually said.
Of Condemnation of Divorce

Jesus said: "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matthew 19:6).

By His words, Jesus sets forth the fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith concerning divorce. His words were an answer to the leaders of the people and their question about divorce, "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" (Matthew 19:3) The leaders desired to teach that divorce for any reason was acceptable. In answer, Jesus first pointed them to the unbreakable bond of marriage which God established in the beginning in Genesis 1:27; 2:23, 24, and concluded, "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matthew 19:6) Jesus forbids divorce.

The leaders of the people did not want to hear this doctrine, as the church today so often does not want to hear or understand. Out of their own sinful lusts and hardened hearts, they wanted to be able to divorce and justify it. The leaders asked Jesus, "Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7) The leaders turned to the book of Deuteronomy, 24:1-4, which gave a law regulating divorce and particularly forbidding the taking again of a divorced and remarried spouse because of the uncleanness of divorce and remarriage. Not understanding the spiritual principles of God's law, they would have twisted His law to justify divorce, as if God approved of it.

Jesus exposes their unbelief. He answered them, "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so." (Matthew 19:8) God, Who made marriage in the beginning, did not approve of their sin of divorce. Divorce is an evidence of the depravity and hardness of man's heart in sin. It was so among the wicked in Israel. It is an evidence of the same hardened unbelief not only in the world, but also in the church of today. The law, whether of Moses or the government today, cannot change a sinful heart. That law can only "suffer," that is, control, regulate, or outwardly restrain the sins which men do. Saving grace alone changes that hardened heart.

Divorce that leads to remarriage is a form of adultery. Jesus said, "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18) Divorce itself causes the spouse to be tempted to commit adultery by remarrying (Matthew 5:32).

But is there no exception? Jesus sets forth only one exception to His condemnation of divorce. He said, "that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery, and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery," (Matthew 5:32; 19:9). This is the only exception: when fornication or adultery has already so wounded the marriage relationship, and it cannot be healed, Jesus does not require, but permits divorce. Properly, also in this case, there should be forgiveness and reconciliation which are the only true healing.

Because the doctrine of the apostles continues in this truth, we read, "And unto the married I command, yet not I but the Lord, let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife." (I Corinthians 7:10, 11) The apostle applies this even to the case of the marriage of a believer and unbeliever in I Corinthians 7:12, 13.

Do you believe in this Jesus and His word concerning divorce? Does your church? Is Jesus Lord also of your marriage? Or do you seek to cover and excuse sin?

By Rev. Thomas Miersma, Missionary Pastor

 

[McBell]

Seems "fornication" means more than merely 'adultery'...

Fornication
FORNICA'TION, n. [L. fornicatio.]

1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.

2. Adultery. Mat 5.

3. Incest. 1 Cor 5.

4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2 Chr 21. Rev 19.

 

[CMike]

@ CMike
Here it is:
Condemnation Of Divorce

If we would take the basics of the Christian faith seriously, then we must begin with what Jesus actually said.
Of Condemnation of Divorce

Jesus said: "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matthew 19:6).

By His words, Jesus sets forth the fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith concerning divorce. His words were an answer to the leaders of the people and their question about divorce, "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" (Matthew 19:3) The leaders desired to teach that divorce for any reason was acceptable. In answer, Jesus first pointed them to the unbreakable bond of marriage which God established in the beginning in Genesis 1:27; 2:23, 24, and concluded, "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matthew 19:6) Jesus forbids divorce.

The leaders of the people did not want to hear this doctrine, as the church today so often does not want to hear or understand. Out of their own sinful lusts and hardened hearts, they wanted to be able to divorce and justify it. The leaders asked Jesus, "Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?" (Matthew 19:7) The leaders turned to the book of Deuteronomy, 24:1-4, which gave a law regulating divorce and particularly forbidding the taking again of a divorced and remarried spouse because of the uncleanness of divorce and remarriage. Not understanding the spiritual principles of God's law, they would have twisted His law to justify divorce, as if God approved of it.

Jesus exposes their unbelief. He answered them, "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so." (Matthew 19:8) God, Who made marriage in the beginning, did not approve of their sin of divorce. Divorce is an evidence of the depravity and hardness of man's heart in sin. It was so among the wicked in Israel. It is an evidence of the same hardened unbelief not only in the world, but also in the church of today. The law, whether of Moses or the government today, cannot change a sinful heart. That law can only "suffer," that is, control, regulate, or outwardly restrain the sins which men do. Saving grace alone changes that hardened heart.

Divorce that leads to remarriage is a form of adultery. Jesus said, "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18) Divorce itself causes the spouse to be tempted to commit adultery by remarrying (Matthew 5:32).

But is there no exception? Jesus sets forth only one exception to His condemnation of divorce. He said, "that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery, and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery," (Matthew 5:32; 19:9). This is the only exception: when fornication or adultery has already so wounded the marriage relationship, and it cannot be healed, Jesus does not require, but permits divorce. Properly, also in this case, there should be forgiveness and reconciliation which are the only true healing.

Because the doctrine of the apostles continues in this truth, we read, "And unto the married I command, yet not I but the Lord, let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife." (I Corinthians 7:10, 11) The apostle applies this even to the case of the marriage of a believer and unbeliever in I Corinthians 7:12, 13.

Do you believe in this Jesus and His word concerning divorce? Does your church? Is Jesus Lord also of your marriage? Or do you seek to cover and excuse sin?

By Rev. Thomas Miersma, Missionary Pastor

I am jewish so what jesus said has no relevance to my religion or me.

So I'll re ask the same question.

What proof do you have that jewish women that were divorced and died?

The community is obligated to help the needy and poor.

Jesus is definetly not in our marriage and never will be.

G-D allows for divorce. We knows this because he gives rules of divorce in the Torah.

So who do you believe more G-D or jesus?

 

[Riverwolf]

If you want to know something on evolution read something like this:
Joseph Chilton Pearce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No.

Biological evolution via natural selection is a completely different process than human fetal development. Scientifically speaking, the two fields that study them don't overlap a whole lot.

 

[hexler]

I am jewish so what jesus said has no relevance to my religion or me.

So I'll re ask the same question.

What proof do you have that jewish women that were divorced and died?

The community is obligated to help the needy and poor.

Jesus is definetly not in our marriage and never will be.

G-D allows for divorce. We knows this because he gives rules of divorce in the Torah.

So who do you believe more G-D or jesus?

I was not there and you were not there. Is it new for you, that laws are not obeyed? What else do we have beside the reports from sources whom we do not know ? On the other hand - you do not seem to be a critical jew. It seems to me you that you see in the appearance of Jesus as an event which was not necessary. Believe me, there are jews who are much more detached from the defense of a decadent society, which was true to the jews in that time. This is not an attack on the jews, because decadence happens to all societies, the christian as much as the islamic.

 

[McBell]

I was not there and you were not there. Is it new for you, that laws are not obeyed? What else do we have beside the reports from sources whom we do not know ? On the other hand - you do not seem to be a critical jew. It seems to me you that you see in the appearance of Jesus as an event which was not necessary. Believe me, there are jews who are much more detached from the defense of a decadent society, which was true to the jews in that time. This is not an attack on the jews, because decadence happens to all societies, the christian as much as the islamic.

Please note that it is noted that you did not answer the question with anything that can be considered "reliable source".

 

[CMike]

I was not there and you were not there. Is it new for you, that laws are not obeyed? What else do we have beside the reports from sources whom we do not know ? On the other hand - you do not seem to be a critical jew. It seems to me you that you see in the appearance of Jesus as an event which was not necessary. Believe me, there are jews who are much more detached from the defense of a decadent society, which was true to the jews in that time. This is not an attack on the jews, because decadence happens to all societies, the christian as much as the islamic.

No the trashing of Jews and hatred toward Jews is common.

It's a shame your religion is based on hatred toward my people.

Do you realize worshipping a false god/false prophet has been a very grave sin?

Also I am not aware of Jews torturing many thousands of people because they didn't convert like the Christians did during the inquisition and burning supposed witches.

 

[hexler]

No the trashing of Jews and hatred toward Jews is common.

It's a shame your religion is based on hatred toward my people.

Do you realize worshipping a false god/false prophet has been a very grave sin?

Also I am not aware of Jews torturing many thousands of people because they didn't convert like the Christians did during the inquisition and burning supposed witches.

To inform you: I a m not a Christian. Because I am not blind to the decadence of this community. The Holy places of my Religion are in Haifa. Many former Jews gave their live for the live of their fellow believers, who were former Moslems. If you are detached of the word "Jew" and see the people as human beings you find good and bad everywhere - inside your community and also outside.

 

[CMike]

To inform you: I a m not a Christian. Because I am not blind to the decadence of this community. The Holy places of my Religion are in Haifa. Many former Jews gave their live for the live of their fellow believers, who were former Moslems. If you are detached of the word "Jew" and see the people as human beings you find good and bad everywhere - inside your community and also outside.

My statements still stand.

 

[hexler]

My statements still stand.

In wikipedia you find this:
Third Temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bahá'í view

In the Bahá'í view the prophecy of the Third Temple was fulfilled with the writing of the Súriy-i-Haykal by Bahá'u'lláh in pentacle form.[34] The Súriy-i-Haykal or Tablet of the Temple, is a composite work which consists of a tablet followed by five messages addressed to world leaders; shortly after its completion, Bahá'u'lláh instructed the tablet be written in the form of a pentacle, symbolizing the human temple and added to it the conclusion:[35]

Thus have We built the Temple with the hands of power and might, could ye but know it. This is the Temple promised unto you in the Book. Draw ye nigh unto it. This is that which profiteth you, could ye but comprehend it. Be fair, O peoples of the earth! Which is preferable, this, or a temple which is built of clay? Set your faces towards it. Thus have ye been commanded by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.[36]

Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith, explained that this verse refers to the prophecy in the Hebrew Bible where Zechariah had promised the rebuilding of the Temple in the End Times as fulfilled in the return of the Manifestation of God, Bahá'u'lláh, in a human temple.[35][37] Throughout the tablet, Bahá'u'lláh addresses the Temple (himself) and explains the glory which is invested in it allowing all the nations of the world to find redemption.[34][38] In the tablet, Bahá'u'lláh states that the Manifestation of God is a pure mirror that reflects the sovereignty of God and manifests God's beauty and grandeur to mankind.[34] In essence, Bahá'u'lláh explains that the Manifestation of God is a "Living Temple" and Bahá'u'lláh addresses the organs and limbs of the human body and bids each to focus on God and not the earthly world.[34]

 

[CMike]

The third temple of the jews hasn't been built yet.

We are waiting for the messiah to come and build that. That is one of the messianic prophesies.

 

[Ingledsva]

I am jewish so what jesus said has no relevance to my religion or me.

So I'll re ask the same question.

What proof do you have that jewish women that were divorced and died?

The community is obligated to help the needy and poor.

Jesus is definetly not in our marriage and never will be.

G-D allows for divorce. We knows this because he gives rules of divorce in the Torah.

So who do you believe more G-D or jesus?

Don't know that I agree with him, however, we do know from the history of patriarchal cultures, where women were owned, that these women were pariahs. They did not fall under the take care of widows and orphans clause. They were discarded used property. These women were hurt by this, and had obvious money, and survival, problems in patriarchal cultures.

There have been several articles and news shows about this subject in the last couple of years, including recent cases, about both Jewish and Islamic ex-wives. The Islamic ones talked about these women turning to prostitution to survive, and the men using them, getting around Islamic law against such, by getting one hour marriage certificates, and then reciting the divorce words after they have had sex. Sick.

By the way, did you see that one recently, where wives of conservative Jews, who were stuck in limbo because their husbands would not give them divorces, were hiring other Jewish men to threaten and even beat the husbands into granting the divorces?

*

 

[s2a]

It is normal that "you remain of the opinion...". It is because all religions of the past have reached the condition of decadence. Everybody is frustrated about the Moslems and what they do today. Shouldn't we clean our own house? It is about 1400 years past Mohammed. What was going on in the Christian world 1400 AD ? The same rumour or even worse. Why does this happen ? It is because most people are superficial. They hear about the "Good News" and believe "ah, now everything becomes better" and expect the change in the outside world. But to reach this new world which the Messenger of God told the believers have to do something to make it real. But many did not. So, they were waiting and waiting that someone or something would do a magic and change this life. What happened ? Their believe in their Religion became cooler and cooler. They said they are believers, but it was hypocrisy.
What can help ? Search for truth. Certainly there is a wisdom behind all these tribulations. Find out.

Hmm?

I wish you no injury in offering my perspective being (unabashedly) that ALL religious opinions are bunk, not exclusive to Islam or Christianity. One faith offers me no grander level of insight, understanding, or "truth" over another.

To be blunt, it's akin to asking whether or not one sample of pond scum seems or appears more appealing than the other... I have no favorites, nor would I drink from any source therein...

I suppose that now the entirety of humanity must await your declaration of "truth", from whence it springs, and where it may be found...

I'm listening...

 

[foxfacts]

The word Gospel means "Good News". When Christians talk about that some of them believe these good news mean, that Jesus died for us on the cross. I have a different view on this subject.
Take f.e. that Jesus forbid divorce. Why did He do this? The reason was, that jewish husbands divorced from their wives, and these divorced wives became homeless, and usually they couldn't survive, they died. If Jesus would not forbid divorce His followers would do the same thing, in other words Jesus protected women from being outcasts.
Also for other people there were good news. Take f.e. the slaves. They found themselves accepted as equal to all men. It was also good news for all citizens of the Roman Empire, because they were relieved from worshipping the Cesar as god. But what does this mean for us today? We do not have those problems! Our problems are different. Ok, we have homeless people, we have slavery, but because of world wide commercial reasons. And also, there is no Cesar.
This world is different from the small mediterranean world of the ancient christian world. This world has become a village. What we need today is a common believe for all mankind. That is why I believe all these old religions are out of date. None of the big worldreligions can meet our needs.

:yes: The bible which was started about 3,500 years ago has nod changed it's principles still remain constant, in the book of Jeremiah for instance, "To earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." The Bible which is Gods word gives us direction and in Isaiah 48:17 I Jehovah, am your God, the one teaching you to benefit yourself, the one causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk, I find it very relevant for today.

 

[s2a]

The word Gospel means "Good News". When Christians talk about that some of them believe these good news mean, that Jesus died for us on the cross. I have a different view on this subject.
Take f.e. that Jesus forbid divorce. Why did He do this? The reason was, that jewish husbands divorced from their wives, and these divorced wives became homeless, and usually they couldn't survive, they died. If Jesus would not forbid divorce His followers would do the same thing, in other words Jesus protected women from being outcasts.
Also for other people there were good news. Take f.e. the slaves. They found themselves accepted as equal to all men. It was also good news for all citizens of the Roman Empire, because they were relieved from worshipping the Cesar as god. But what does this mean for us today? We do not have those problems! Our problems are different. Ok, we have homeless people, we have slavery, but because of world wide commercial reasons. And also, there is no Cesar.
This world is different from the small mediterranean world of the ancient christian world. This world has become a village. What we need today is a common believe for all mankind. That is why I believe all these old religions are out of date. None of the big worldreligions can meet our needs.

It may lend a better perspective to recall that 2000 years ago, most "married" women were only regarded as "property", and not as partners or equals in "marriage:, and that polygamy was not only legal, but quite commonplace.

Oh, and human slavery was both legal and common as well... assuming you were born on the right side of the sand dune...

I'd be pleased to listen and entertain any "modern" religions you feel that embrace/epitomize progressive thinking re: equality and fairness; that promote scientific research, understanding, and prospectively open enlightenment; that see all basic rights as "human" rights, regardless of borders or "cultural" exceptions...and dare to treat 50% of our species as thoughtful and respected equals to men in every any and every measure...

Got a list of those handy?

 

[hexler]

It may lend a better perspective to recall that 2000 years ago, most "married" women were only regarded as "property", and not as partners or equals in "marriage:, and that polygamy was not only legal, but quite commonplace.

Oh, and human slavery was both legal and common as well... assuming you were born on the right side of the sand dune...

I'd be pleased to listen and entertain any "modern" religions you feel that embrace/epitomize progressive thinking re: equality and fairness; that promote scientific research, understanding, and prospectively open enlightenment; that see all basic rights as "human" rights, regardless of borders or "cultural" exceptions...and dare to treat 50% of our species as thoughtful and respected equals to men in every any and every measure...

Got a list of those handy?

These are some of the goals of Bahá’í Religion:
Bah' Faith Principles


• The oneness of mankind.

• Universal peace upheld by a world government.

• Independent investigation of truth.

• The common foundation of all religions.

• The essential harmony of science and religion.

• Equality of men and women.

• Elimination of prejudice of all kinds.

• Universal compulsory education.

• A spiritual solution to the economic problem.

• A universal auxiliary language.

The explanations of these principles in the sections following are excerpts from the public talks of 'Abdu'l-Bahá in America in 1912, published in The Promulgation of Universal Peace.