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GOP Senators block bill to create Jan. 6 commission
- Thread starter Stevicus
- Start date
What's in such dispute that a commission would resolve it?
If we knew that, would we need a commission?
I think, at least in my mind, that if you'd like to solve a problem, or prevent a recurrence, it's not a bad idea to know what caused the problem in the first place.
Sure, everybody will opine and pontificate (McConnell himself opined late at night on Jan 6), but opinions are not the same thing as testimony given under oath in a court where those opinions can be tested.
I hate to say this to you quite so directly, but the Republicans really are terrified that what any independent commission of inquiry might turn up would hurt them in the election in 2022. This presents something of a conundrum, don't you think? If it could hurt them, whatever the commission turns up is likely to be bad. If it is bad, it ought to weigh against the Republicans in the election.
So if you never hear about it -- why then would you not think the Republicans still the best thing since sliced truth (sorry, I mean bread)?
I'll also opine on @Revoltingest 's question with questions that occurred to me:
- Was it spontaneous or planned or a bit of both?
- Were some insurrectionists aided by members of Congress?
- Does the way Congress is guarded need to change?
- How can the Capital police be certain that backup support is forthcoming if needed?
- If more security is needed, what's the best mix to be fiscally prudent at the same time?
- Were the insurrectionists bankrolled by anyone?
- What is the role of the media when the insurrection happened?
I just don't see it as worth investigating in that way.
There's a partisan tendency to investigate the other
side because it's politically useful. But there should
be a reasonable expectation to uncover significantly
useful info. What would the nature of it be?
Some of those are useful things to address.
Other seem political.
The mere fact that the truth may make some politicians look bad is not justification for concealing it.
There could be some embarrassing "truth", or there
could be simply the embarrassment of investigation.
Which? I don't know.
Well, maybe we might start a thread on that question. There are probably all sorts of ways that we could learn. For example:
How does social media facilitate conspiracy theory that could lead to an event like Jan 6?
How does social media create communities that never existed before?
Can politicians use social media in ways that they never could with traditional media?
and like that...
I think there should have been a commission, but I can see both points here.
It might make the politicians look bad, but another potential angle is that it might make the insurrectionists look more powerful or important than they actually were. Would they have called any of them in to testify? Would they call in Jacob Chansley, and would he appear in his Viking helmet and furs? This guy was obviously the leader, and he's become world famous now.
I'm not sure what we can learn from this, other than a lesson in "insurrection made easy"? They might learn to pay a little better attention next time and prepare better. They knew there was going to be a protest that day. They knew it was going to be contentious. It's not just a matter of looking at the criminals and agitators, but also at the response of the government and whether or not they're really in touch with what was going on.
A major complaint about the Democrats in recent years is that they've grown out of touch and lost perspective, and I don't really see that they're changing in this regard.
You think he's the mastermind?
I think any investigation would find otherwise.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
We don't formally tolerate such bull****. Mess with the system and attack it and you won't get away with it. Especially when it's over a lie that defrauds and defames a fair and legit election.
I was being sarcastic. It's just that his picture has been the most prominent among all those involved, almost as if his likeness has become symbolic of the whole event. I don't know how this will be looked upon in 100 or 200 years, as it's being compared to the Civil War. I think people will still remember the Civil War, but I'm not sure if this will be thought of as significant as many think of it today. Certainly not comparable to the Civil War in any way, shape, or form.
But if I'm wrong about that, then this guy's picture and name will go down in history. Kids in grade school will study him. He may become the American equivalent of Guy Fawkes. There is something somewhat humorous about that.
Indeed. Arlington Cemetery was actually created because it was part of Lee's estate. The USA took it as a result of his allegiance to the South. The oddity of Lee was that he was not sympathetic to the South's policies or slavery, but he was a citizen of Virginia and they were part of the Confederate States of America and he felt more allegiance to Virginia than the USA as a nation.
Strategically, yes. But they did have opportunities if they had decided to attempt it. After Gettysburg the Confederates had no real chance.
Ha. They had no competent plans and the folks aren't exactly MENSA. I do wonder if they had guns (which were prohibited in Washington, DC) what could have happened.
I think this touches on the strategy of republicans. They surely don't want any focus on what these people (and trump, Guiliani, Don, Jr. etc) did on Jan 6 and doing what they can to push the responsibility of democrats. If it falls on Democrats then the GOP can claim any result that is critical of republicans is just politics and to be ignored.
The biggest threat to the USA is the broad base of conservative voters, and what they will tolerate from republicans in power. Frankly i suspect the USA is on a slide to collapse. Look at the support the state leaderships have in voting reform measures that will open the door to manipulation and doubt about results.
I think if Virginia chose not to secede, the Civil War would have ended a lot more quickly. As for Lee, I've heard different accounts which are not as flattering as others. But his loyalty to Virginia was clear.
On paper, they probably had no real chance from the very beginning, although early Union bungling got them off to a rough start. The South was hoping more for a political victory, since they knew they were outnumbered and outgunned by an industrialized enemy. They tried to get help from Britain and France to no avail. They couldn't break the Union blockade. Even if the Confederates won at Gettysburg, Washington still had strong defenses, and the Grant was still winning in the West, taking control of the Mississippi and cutting the South in two.
I think they probably knew they couldn't win, but they couldn't really give up either. That's part of the general narrative on Lee, as he was fighting a lost cause with a tired army, meager resources, limited supplies, yet managed to hold it all together and still fight on for as long as he could. Meanwhile, Grant was fighting and winning a war of attrition and kept at it until the South cried "uncle."
That's a good question. It might have been a lot worse if they were armed.
Good points. Looking at the Civil War battles I'm not sure how the South ever thought it could win. Perhaps if Britain or France had backed them it would have made the difference. War and politics is often a gamble.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think its just a waste of time.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Will they learn how he cried and whined and mommy came to his defense when the consequences came?
The irony of it all is that, by seceding and propelling the country into Civil War, the South effectively accelerated the end of slavery. Had they remained in the Union, they would have had enough votes in Congress to stall any attempts at anti-slavery legislation. It might have been many more years before slavery would have ended.
I don't think there was any real chance that Britain or France would have aided the Confederacy, although I can see where a divided U.S. might work to their advantage in the long run. The Civil War also demonstrated that the US was no longer some colonial backwater, and that we could field rather large, well-equipped formidable fighting forces if we needed to. Considering the intensity and casualty rates of some of the battles, the British and French were actually smart to stay out of it.
In this case, I don't think Britain or France would choose to support the Q-Anon Shaman, but you never know.