Gravity and the Expanding Universe

[ecco]

It's ridiculous to think science will do you no good in the grave? OK, I'll bite; what good will it do you personally in the 22nd century?

Oh. I see. When you said science is only good for about eighty years, you meant because I'll only live to be eighty.

Well, I look beyond myself. I think about my children and their children.

But I do see where you are coming from. For example, you don't care about the science behind Climate Change because you aren't going to be around in 2099.

You're kind of like the paper companies of old who dumped massive amount s of pollutants into rivers because, ya know, they would be dead before the pollution got too bad.

We obviously have very different perspectives on what we want for our descendants.




As for your eternal life - think about it - seriously. Eternity is a period of time you cannot really comprehend. You probably have a hard time accepting that the dinosaurs lived millions of years ago.

Eternity is millions of years times millions of years raised to an infinite number of years.

I know I would go completely insane long before I got through .0000000000000000000000000000000001% of eternity.

How many times will you happily allow auntie Jane to pinch your cute little cheeks. How many times will you listen to Uncle Joe tell about the day he caught a really big snapper.

Think of a repetition that bugs you now. Then think about experiencing that repetition a gazillion gazillion times and realizing that you haven't even scratched the surface of eternity.

 

[rrobs]

Science adequately confirms the knowledge of our physical existence now.

Yes, science reigns supreme in our physical existence. It works just fine.

However, Jesus said man does not live by bread alone (science of food), but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4).

Since God, being spirit (John 4:24), does not actually have a mouth, saying He does is the figure of speech Anthropomorphous. A figure of speech is is used to emphasize, therefore the scriptures emphasize our need to know and walk by them. Doing so will in no wise compromise science. If you had an open mind, I could show you a lot of science in the scriptures. Definitely there for anyone who cares to know. But again, you can't expect Moses to have had to benefit of atom smashers to understand physical reality. Pretty simple concept, really.

Good discussion!

 

[rrobs]

Oh. I see. When you said science is only good for about eighty years, you meant because I'll only live to be eighty.

Well, I look beyond myself. I think about my children and their children.

But I do see where you are coming from. For example, you don't care about the science behind Climate Change because you aren't going to be around in 2099.

You're kind of like the paper companies of old who dumped massive amount s of pollutants into rivers because, ya know, they would be dead before the pollution got too bad.

We obviously have very different perspectives on what we want for our descendants.




As for your eternal life - think about it - seriously. Eternity is a period of time you cannot really comprehend. You probably have a hard time accepting that the dinosaurs lived millions of years ago.

Eternity is millions of years times millions of years raised to an infinite number of years.

I know I would go completely insane long before I got through .0000000000000000000000000000000001% of eternity.

How many times will you happily allow auntie Jane to pinch your cute little cheeks. How many times will you listen to Uncle Joe tell about the day he caught a really big snapper.

Think of a repetition that bugs you now. Then think about experiencing that repetition a gazillion gazillion times and realizing that you haven't even scratched the surface of eternity.

Good points, but unless you think this earth will support people for eternity, then some generation will be the last and after that science will be a moot point.

As to what I want for my descendants, I want them to know the true God, Yahweh, and His son, Jesus Christ. The science will take care of itself.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You or I won't be around to confirm this.

Do we need to be? And your claim was shown to be wrong so you had to grasp at straws. Just own up to your mistake that some scientific ideas do hang around for quite some time. By the way, Darwin's work was amazingly accurate considering how little data he had to work with. We know more now than when he wrote his theory, and aspects of it have been corrected, but the main gist of it has been confirmed.

 

[ppp]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but what I was asking is where you get the idea that, "the stories are unsupported, and the morality is inadequate."

From reading the Bible. Have you read it? The first line is "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Stop me if you've heard this one. It's just a bald assertion. Utterly unsupported by evidence. And then they go on to get all sorts of thing wrong. Starting with the order in which things arose. Plus, I'm against genocide, slavery, punishing children for their parent's crimes, the subjugation of women, and torture. God is depicted in the Bible as being in support of those things, so if he existed, he would not meet my minimal moral standards.

I think when we say something is written in the stars it is a figure of speech and not meant to be taken literally. I know you really don't thing it is written in the stars, but surely you must have some source for the ideas you have concerning life.

People here believe in astrology, dowsing, prophets, seers, and psychics. And it is so rare for me to hear 'written in the stars' in real life, that I could not tell. Thanks for clarifying.

As for sources...As a result of being a member of a social species, I have inborne traits of empathy, fairness, reciprocity, cooperation, obligation and guilt. You are probably familiar with all those. Those are my moral tendencies. Also I want to live and be healthy and safe. Couple that with there being facts about reality that dictate how I can achieve those wants and I get both the standards by which I can generate moral precepts, and a way to filter the already existing moral precepts of others. I apply that filter to everything. Including, but not limited to, the Bible.

 

[gnostic]

The biggest limitation of science is that it only serves oneself for about 80 years. After that it's useless. If that's all one wants, then science works. But some want something more substantial, and that's where the scriptures come into play. The scriptures are good for everlasting time.

Considering that you are a Christian, then looking at only the Christian Bible...

...Then the authors to every books within Bible not only show they have limitations to knowledge about nature and about history, these authors were consistently wrong. And it is not just about Genesis Creation and Flood.

They were also wrong about the table of nations (Genesis 10), the multitude of languages that happened at the Babel incident, the ages of every Genesis patriarchs, God’s replies to Job, even the gospels showed some inconsistencies only demonstrated that each authors have the natural tendency to distort and embellish the little things.

Substantial is the word I wouldn’t use for the Bible. And it is the same with every other scriptures that I have read in the last 20 years.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes, science reigns supreme in our physical existence. It works just fine.

However, Jesus said man does not live by bread alone (science of food), but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4).

Since God, being spirit (John 4:24), does not actually have a mouth, saying He does is the figure of speech Anthropomorphous. A figure of speech is is used to emphasize, therefore the scriptures emphasize our need to know and walk by them. Doing so will in no wise compromise science. If you had an open mind, I could show you a lot of science in the scriptures. Definitely there for anyone who cares to know. But again, you can't expect Moses to have had to benefit of atom smashers to understand physical reality. Pretty simple concept, really.

Good discussion!

I agree with you with concerning the spiritual nature and destiny, but on a more universal perspective than Christianity, but that may be the subject of another discussion.

 

[shunyadragon]

Assuming global warming won't get 'em!

I hope science can potentially resolve the Global Warming problem, but it will be a wait and see how much global cooperation we can get in the future.

 

[halbhh]

Interesting hypothetical articles based on speculation of the unknown. How is this relevant to any argument you are presenting?

'Arguing from ignorance' of hypothetical unknown has strong philosophical over tones, but in and of themselves do not contribute to the advancement of science.

Hi, I'm not sure if you confused me with someone else -- I did not present an argument in that post to my awareness. Rather, it was an informational post to help the OP poster have a more full understanding of the very subject matter he was posting about. (fyi my background is an Engineering Physics degree). If someone wants to point out the dramatic physical seeming unnaturalness of this Universe, which I think is extremely interesting, I'd prefer if they were really well informed on that, so they can do a good job presenting it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I hope science can potentially resolve the Global Warming problem, but it will be a wait and see how much global cooperation we can get in the future.

It looks as if the addition of excessive CO2 is well within reach. The problem is that the CO2 that we have already added and the additional amount that we add in the near future will continue to warm the Earth for decades to come. Removing CO2 from the atmosphere may be a problem that is too big. It takes energy to remove CO2 from the atmosphere so any mitigation attempts could actually add even more. Though we have come up with some ingenious solutions in the past. It may happen.

 

[ecco]

Good points, but unless you think this earth will support people for eternity, then some generation will be the last and after that science will be a moot point.

As to what I want for my descendants, I want them to know the true God, Yahweh, and His son, Jesus Christ. The science will take care of itself.

That is exactly the attitude that is dangerous to the world and the people. The science can do nothing as long as there are people who are more concerned about some hoped for eternity than they are about keeping this earth viable.

You and your descendants will rot in the ground just as all living things have done long before anyone ever heard of your gods.

It's really sad that some lives are so messed up that people have only some imagined future to look forward to.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I didn't say he was a good boy, he did a lot of things to aid his cause. That doesn't change his belief in god

Seems to me Hitler set himself as being his own 'god'.
Yes, he did a lot of things to aid his cause but in the end it was not good.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That is exactly the attitude that is dangerous to the world and the people. The science can do nothing as long as there are people who are more concerned about some hoped for eternity than they are about keeping this earth viable.
You and your descendants will rot in the ground just as all living things have done long before anyone ever heard of your gods.
It's really sad that some lives are so messed up that people have only some imagined future to look forward to.

I can agree that science can't help as long as there are people who are Not concerned about keeping this Earth viable.
We are supposed to be Earth's care takers or care givers - Genesis 1:28.
I see at Revelation 11:18 B that God will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth.
So, we are Not to bring any ruin to Earth ( that even includes: littering ).
Even something as small as smoking is ' air pollution ' besides the harmful polluting BIG business does.
So, the bottom line is people who imagine a better future but don't do their part now will Not see a better future.
Only people who are about keeping our Earth viable will be around to help see Earth become a beautiful paradisical Earth.
An Earth as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

False Clergy?!? Who are you to decide who are true believers and who aren't?
If America had followed your Put Away the Sword ideologies in 1941, du würdest jetzt deutsch sprechen.
You live in the real world, not some idealistic fantasy world.
You might also consider that your Father, Son, Holy Ghost God speaks out of both sides of his mouth. For every "Put Away the Sword" spoken by the Son version, the Father version mercilessly destroyed armies and their wives and children.

I find if we step back and look at the BIG picture as Jesus did we can discern the true from the false - John 13:34-35.
Neither America or any other country is made up of just genuine ' wheat ' Christians.
Jesus was addressing those who would truly decide to become his follows.
True genuine Christians ( besides the Jews ) ended up in concentration camps.
Jews couldn't leave, but all the Christians had to do was sign a paper denouncing their stand and could be set free.
If everyone on Earth just lived by the Golden Rule there would be No wars.

 

[shunyadragon]

It looks as if the addition of excessive CO2 is well within reach. The problem is that the CO2 that we have already added and the additional amount that we add in the near future will continue to warm the Earth for decades to come. Removing CO2 from the atmosphere may be a problem that is too big. It takes energy to remove CO2 from the atmosphere so any mitigation attempts could actually add even more. Though we have come up with some ingenious solutions in the past. It may happen.

True, trying to stop global warming is like standing in front of a fright train, or AMTRAK, but none the less there is some hope for technology to reduce it over the long run.

Dealing with global warming is probably the best we can do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

True, trying to stop global warming is like standing in front of a fright train, or AMTRAK, but none the less there is some hope for technology to reduce it over the long run.

Dealing with global warming is probably the best we can do.

Oh wait! I just thought of a brilliant solution:

Global Warming is a hoax!!

Brr, I just felt the temperature drop a few degrees in this room and it had nothing to do with the roommate opening up the front door.

 

[shunyadragon]

Hi, I'm not sure if you confused me with someone else -- I did not present an argument in that post to my awareness. Rather, it was an informational post to help the OP poster have a more full understanding of the very subject matter he was posting about. (fyi my background is an Engineering Physics degree). If someone wants to point out the dramatic physical seeming unnaturalness of this Universe, which I think is extremely interesting, I'd prefer if they were really well informed on that, so they can do a good job presenting it.

I consider unnaturalness an odd oxymoron. I have no reason concerning the present state of our knowledge that would indicate the universe is in any way unnatural.

I do not believe these references provided a 'fuller understanding of the subject.

 

[shunyadragon]

Oh wait! I just thought of a brilliant solution:

Global Warming is a hoax!!

Brr, I just felt the temperature drop a few degrees in this room and it had nothing to do with the roommate opening up the front door.

Buy and build on high ground in the Piedmont, and your grandchildren will have a waterfront property.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Buy and build on high ground in the Piedmont, and your grandchildren will have a waterfront property.

I am currently at less than one hundred feet in elevation. I might just have the perfect location.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Good points, but unless you think this earth will support people for eternity, then some generation will be the last and after that science will be a moot point.
As to what I want for my descendants, I want them to know the true God, Yahweh, and His son, Jesus Christ. The science will take care of itself.

I think Earth will support people for eternity because 'Earth abides forever' according to Ecclesiastes 1:4 B.
Adam was only offered everlasting life on Earth. Earth was Not a stepping stone to another place.
Earth is Not at fault for what Satan and Adam did.
Jesus was sent Not to do away with Earth, but to undo the damage Satan and Adam brought upon humanity on Earth.
Known science ( and many churches ) teach an end to Earth, but we don't yet know all that God has in store for us.
What we do know is that God does Not have an end to Earth in His mind for us.