Greek Exit form the Euro

[Jayhawker Soule]

... some of us simply care about our fellow human beings - though at times it seems we are a tiny minority awash in a sea of sadists.

You guys are so brave, so special ...

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't care for ignorant and malignant perspectives.

If you say so. But the question is legit and I don't think it has been answered.

What is even desirable, realistically, in this situation according to your perspective?

 

[Yerda]

If you say so. But the question is legit and I don't think it has been answered.

What is even desirable, realistically, in this situation according to your perspective?

It's obvious that without debt forgiveness and restructuring and an escape route from the austerity politics that the Greek people will continue to suffer.

Even the IMF is saying the eurozone conditions are stupid.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's obvious that without debt forgiveness and restructuring and an escape route from the austerity politics that the Greek people will continue to suffer.

I agree. In fact, I see no realistic future that spares them the suffering indefinitely or entirely.

All of them, as a matter of fact, involve some combination of debt forgiveness (which they have been granted already and are being granted again, by my reading), restructuring and austerity. There is no true ethical escape from austerity, although the attempt will doubtlessly be made anyway.

Even the IMF is saying the eurozone conditions are stupid.

Stupidness is what is being demanded to some degree by both sides, because the alternatives are (perceived as) more destructive.

 

[Kirran]

I can. Who wants to be part of Europe when it treats it's members as Greece has been treated?

Polls tend to be pro-Europe, of late.

#1 Rule for living on the European continent: Don't trust anything coming out of the United Kingdom. Its main goal for the last +200 years was to keep the Continental countries apart from each other. Which is why the EEC was such a horrible news for the UK. Suddenly there was hope that future conflicts simply wouldn't happen anymore.
This was and is of course against the interest of the UK.
It's quite sad that no one listened to Charles De Gaulle after he left office and immediately invited the UK into the EEC.

On top of that you can't forget that they still haven't overcome the fact that their beloved Empire ceased to exist.

Some valid criticisms, but let's not get too carried away with the whitewashing here.

I am British, and I can say confidently that I don't know anybody who has any nostalgia for the British Empire. Are there many Austrians who wish for the halcyon days if the Austro-Hungarian Empire?

As for Britain 'trying to keep European countries apart' it's basically just Euroscepticism for Britain itself in any political grouping with any actual clout, rather than this kind of meddling. Not to say that that undercurrent hasn't been around, but I don't for a second think that the leadership of the Conservative Party (currently in power), the Labour Party, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, UKIP, Plaid Cymru, the Scottish Nationalist Party, the Ulster Unionist Party or Sinn Fein (etc) actually want conflict in the area now in the European Union.

 

[Yerda]

There is no true ethical escape from austerity, although the attempt will doubtlessly be made anyway.

I'm not sure I understand.

Stupidness is what is being demanded to some degree by both sides, because the alternatives are (perceived as) more destructive.

I think when the IMF thinks the eurozone conditions are harsh you have to pause and reflect. It's like Dracula becoming faint at the sight of too much blood.

 

[Yerda]

Polls tend to be pro-Europe, of late.

I know. I was being dramatic. I do think I'll vote to leave unless serious EU reform is on the table. We're already paying for Westminster; what's the use in paying for another corrupt body?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Stupidness is what is being demanded to some degree by both sides, because the alternatives are (perceived as) more destructive.

Having spent the last few weeks in Greece I've been fixated on news feeds from various sources. This may well be the most coherent and succinct statement on events that I've read to date.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not sure I understand.

Greece spends more money than it has. That ultimately must lead to austerity, doesn't it?

I think when the IMF thinks the eurozone conditions are harsh you have to pause and reflect. It's like Dracula becoming faint at the sight of too much blood.

I would rather not take as a premise that the IMF is cruel and insensitive, particularly given the circunstances.

Not saying that it is not, mind you. But I would need some hard facts.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

By the way, some things have consequences. See, for example: Greece admits fudging euro entry.

 

[Yerda]

Greece spends more money than it has. That ultimately must lead to austerity, doesn't it?

To some extent you have to imagine it's unavoidable. Have a look at the link below for other means of managing debt-crises, runs on banks etc.

I would rather not take as a premise that the IMF is cruel and insensitive, particularly given the circunstances.

Not saying that it is not, mind you. But I would need some hard facts.

Ok. I recommend Globalization and its Discontents. The author could not have been closer to the subject.

 

[Yerda]

By the way, some things have consequences. See, for example: Greece admits fudging euro entry.

Don't you think the consequences should be felt by those responsible?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Don't you think the consequences should be felt by those responsible?

What would you suggest? And what should be done about the debt?

 

[Kirran]

I know. I was being dramatic. I do think I'll vote to leave unless serious EU reform is on the table. We're already paying for Westminster; what's the use in paying for another corrupt body?

You don't think there any advantages to the EU?