Gun rights victory today!

[sandandfoam]

But are you comfortable allowing government to have weapons while the populace is completely unarmed?

No I'm not.
Our police are not armed. I support this 100%
I wish we didn't have an army.
I suppose for all practical purposes we don't.

 

[sandandfoam]

Do you realize just about anything can be made into an improvised weapon, right? Does your kitchen contain nothing other than plastic sporks? Also, do you think a woman shouldn't be allowed to possess the means to protect herself should the need arise? Or would you prefer that she becomes a defenseless victim rather than her assailant coming to harm?

That just sounds paranoid to me.
IRL I know no men or women who own a weapon

 

[Magic Man]

Most people who oppose gun ownership do so out of an emotional knee jerk reaction rather than from a well reasoned, rational standpoint.

Whether or not that's true, that doesn't mean there's not a reasoned, rational argument against gun ownership.

 

[sandandfoam]

Anything can be used as a weapon. Take away things intended for that purpose, and new "problems" will emerge.

Sure - but it'd be a big ask to go on a killing spree with a potato peeler.

 

[Magic Man]

People have used knifes and baseball bats to deprive others of life. Where is the outrage surrounding those objects?

Baseball bats and knives are useful for things other than severely wounding or killing things. Plus, they're very straightforward.

 

[Father Heathen]

That just sounds paranoid to me.

There are people out there who seek to prey upon the innocent. It happens.

IRL I know no men or women who own a weapon

Have any of them been victims of violent crimes? Also, we can't all live in a quaint hobbit shire.

 

[Magic Man]

But are you comfortable allowing government to have weapons while the populace is completely unarmed?

See, this is part of the problem. This "militia" mentality. Do you really think the difference between the government taking over as a tyranny and not is your couple of handguns? Back when the Constitution was written, that made sense. An armed militia could stand up against the government. These days, that doesn't work so well.

 

[Father Heathen]

Whether or not that's true, that doesn't mean there's not a reasoned, rational argument against gun ownership.

Perhaps, but I'm still waiting for it.

 

[Magic Man]

Perhaps, but I'm still waiting for it.

Well, how about the fact that we're safer with no or less guns around?

 

[Father Heathen]

Well, how about the fact that we're safer with no or less guns around?

I can't see violent criminals actually complying with a gun ban. I also can't see how removing law abiding citizens' ability to defend themselves would make them safer, either. My family has always owned guns, and we've yet to find ourselves knee deep in the dead.

 

[Storm]

Are you saying I'm in that group?

No, you just sparked a brief rant.

I agree with this ruling. I just think the reasons revoltingest provided are generally the reasons people want guns, and I think they are crappy reasons for wanting guns.

While I wasn't exactly moved by his eloquence, myself, I don't see what's so "crappy" about recreation, liberty, and self-defense.

 

[Storm]

That just sounds paranoid to me.

Well, I'm not exactly in a position to judge, being a paranoid myself. That said, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable to acknowledge the existence of violent crime.

IRL I know no men or women who own a weapon

Well then, YOU'RE not really in a position to judge, are you? You've never known a responsible gun owner. I have.

Sure - but it'd be a big ask to go on a killing spree with a potato peeler.

Granted. The criminal in question would be much more likely to make a pipe bomb out of legal materials.

See, this is part of the problem. This "militia" mentality. Do you really think the difference between the government taking over as a tyranny and not is your couple of handguns? Back when the Constitution was written, that made sense. An armed militia could stand up against the government. These days, that doesn't work so well.

Granted, but that's only one motive.

Our system is not set up to prevent violence, it leaves that to the citizen. The right to bear arms is an integral part of that.

 

[Magic Man]

I can't see violent criminals actually complying with a gun ban. I also can't see how removing law abiding citizens' ability to defend themselves would make them safer, either.

It sure would make it harder for violent criminals to use guns, though. And how often is someone saved from a violent crime because they own a gun? Is it more or less often than someone misuses a gun and someone gets hurt?

My family has always owned guns, and we've yet to find ourselves knee deep in the dead.

That's fine. I've never owned a gun, and no one I know in real life ever has, and we've never been the victims of a crime, violent or otherwise.

 

[Magic Man]

No, you just sparked a brief rant.


While I wasn't exactly moved by his eloquence, myself, I don't see what's so "crappy" about recreation, liberty, and self-defense.

Because that's not what it is. It's "because they're cool, and others don't want us to have them".

 

[Magic Man]

Granted, but that's only one motive.

Yeah, I'm just responding to that one. I'm not even arguing in this thread that guns should be illegal. All I'm saying is that there is a legitimate argument to be had, and that the reasons presented by some for ownership are wanting.

Our system is not set up to prevent violence, it leaves that to the citizen.

I would disagree. Technically police are supposed to deal with that.

The right to bear arms is an integral part of that.

Why? As you've said, anything can be used as a weapon. Why do we need guns to defend ourselves?

 

[Storm]

Yeah, I'm just responding to that one. I'm not even arguing in this thread that guns should be illegal. All I'm saying is that there is a legitimate argument to be had, and that the reasons presented by some for ownership are wanting.

OK.

I would disagree. Technically police are supposed to deal with that.

Not really. They can't do much at all until a crime has occured. They can't arrest someone for threats, for isntance.

And I think that's for the best.

Why? As you've said, anything can be used as a weapon. Why do we need guns to defend ourselves?

Guns are effective. I like my stick, but it won't do me much good if some gangbanger points a pistol at me.

 

[Magic Man]

Not really. They can't do much at all until a crime has occured. They can't arrest someone for threats, for isntance.

They can stop a crime from being committed, though.

Guns are effective. I like my stick, but it won't do me much good if some gangbanger points a pistol at me.

That's the problem. Guns are too effective. Frankly, if a gangbanger is pointing a pistol at you, you're probably screwed anyway.

 

[Revoltingest]

No I'm not.
Our police are not armed. I support this 100%
I wish we didn't have an army.
I suppose for all practical purposes we don't.

Where it works, it sounds good to me.

Storm:

While I wasn't exactly moved by his eloquence....

Just trying to cover everything without being wordy. The last thing you'd want is to have me post a long-winded essay
about history, liberty, crime, rights & the existential pleasures of a warrior's way. Dang! I'm even boring myself now.

 

[Storm]

They can stop a crime from being committed, though.

Only by interruption.

That's the problem. Guns are too effective.

Well, you can't unring a bell. They're out there, and there not going away. As long as that's the case, I want one.

Frankly, if a gangbanger is pointing a pistol at you, you're probably screwed anyway.

If he beats me to the draw, sure. If I had a gun, the chances of that would be reduced.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That's fine. I've never owned a gun, and no one I know in real life ever has, and we've never been the victims of a crime, violent or otherwise.

Dang, you live in a different culture than me.

Everyone I knew growing up had guns - including a good number of women (except my mom and her mom). Hunting was a part of growing up - we'd go out and be taught how to survive in the wild and track animals, etc. If you didn't own a gun, it wasn't because of a high sense of morals - it was usually because you couldn't afford one.

Now that we have the gun concealment laws, even old ladies carry handguns in their purses (they may have done it before ).