Hamilton County (TX) May Install Ten Commandments Monument Outside Courthouse

[Darkforbid]

He isn't against everything Christian. Any more than you are in favor of everything Christian, like genocide and slavery and gender oppression.

You are opposed to those things, aren't you? You've dumped scriptural morality for secular humanism, to a degree?
Haven't you?
Tom

I don't know I might pop down the local Christian slave market in the morning housework is becoming such a pain

 

[Skwim]

Is it a municipal or county courthouse. Because they Establishment Clause does not apply to municipal or county governments.

"Municipalities aren't governed by the Constitution" is one of the newest dodges I've seen.
I'm old, I thought I'd seen them all. But dang, the religious bigots always have a new one up their sleeves!
Tom

Too bad its legal though.

McCreary County v. ACLU of Kentucky, 545 U.S. 844 (2005),[1] was a case argued before the Supreme Court of the United States on March 2, 2005. At issue was whether the Court should continue to inquire into the purpose behind a religious display and whether evaluation of the government's claim of secular purpose for the religious displays may take evolution into account under an Establishment Clause of the First Amendment analysis.

In a suit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit held that the displays—in this case, a Ten Commandments display at the McCreary County courthouse in Whitley City, Kentucky and a Ten Commandments display at the Pulaski County courthouse—were unconstitutional. The appeal from that decision, argued by Mathew Staver of Liberty Counsel, urged reformulation or abandonment of the "Lemon test" set forth in Lemon v. Kurtzman, which has been applied to religious displays on government property and to other Establishment Clause issues.

The Supreme Court ruled on June 27, 2005, in a 5–4 decision, that the display was unconstitutional.

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[The Reverend Bob]

Here we go again.
Text of the Establishment Clause:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
Read it carefully.

Does the Establishment Clause Apply to the States?

Does it? I think it does, due to the 14th amendment but does it really apply to local governments? It gets a little bit iffy there.

Supreme Court upholds prayer at government meetings

Town Meetings Can Have Prayer, Justices Decide

Maybe it doesn't really apply to local governments. SCOTUS is leaning toward that it doesn't for now.

Town Meetings Can Have Prayer, Justices Decide

 

[columbus]

Let go of your victimhood,

You first pumpkin.

Do you really wanna go there?

I'm a gay atheist who has been under assault from the government and religion around here for my whole life.

I've still managed to make a good life and a 25 year marriage, even though bigots like you have opposed me every step of the way. Eff you Christians and your "Jesus Loves You" BS. Eff you and your "If you don't want to be Christian, then you aren't welcome in my town!". Christian folk are the most evil, hypocritical, self righteous folk I know of. And you are one of them.

My moral code has kept me married for 25 years. That's an achievement here in Jesustan, where Mike Pence used to be governor. How well is your Christian self righteousness working out for you?
How's your wife doing?
Tom

 

[Skwim]

Why are you against everything Christian?

"Everything" he says in exaggeration without batting an eye. Just to be clear, the only Christian things I'm against are its incursions into secular life, and the myths and manipulations it foists upon the gullible.

.

 

[columbus]

Not saying that. I am saying that the Clause does not apply to municipal or county governments, it only apply to the federal government by virtue of the 1st amendment and to states by virtue of the 14th

So if a municipal government decides that lynching is generally supported by the community, it's their decision?
Lynching is OK?

I'm making this as an example because I know that lynching actually happened. And I know that the local Christian community supported it.
Tom

 

[Enoch07]

I'm a gay atheist who has been under assault from the government and religion around here for my whole life.

You poor thing. Nobody else has ever had to face any adversity. Just you and you alone. Let me get out my violin.

even though bigots like you have opposed me every step of the way.

Yeup bigots like me that supported gay marriage, gay adoptions etc.

Christian folk are the most evil, hypocritical, self righteous folk I know of. And you are one of them.

You don't know the difference.

How well is your Christian self righteousness working out for you?

Pretty good! I don't blame others for my inadequacies.

How's your wife doing?

Never been married. I like my freedom too much.

 

[columbus]

I don't know I might pop down the local Christian slave market in the morning housework is becoming such a pain

A 150 years ago you could have, at least here in the USA.
Because Christian's could read the Bible and see for themselves that slavery was ordained by God.
Tom

 

[Skwim]

Here we go again.
Text of the Establishment Clause:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
Read it carefully.

Does the Establishment Clause Apply to the States?

Does it? I think it does, due to the 14th amendment but does it really apply to local governments? It gets a little bit iffy there.

Supreme Court upholds prayer at government meetings

Town Meetings Can Have Prayer, Justices Decide

Maybe it doesn't really apply to local governments. SCOTUS is leaning toward that it doesn't for now.

Town Meetings Can Have Prayer, Justices Decide

He says, ignoring McCreary County v. ACLU of Kentucky.

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[The Reverend Bob]

He says, ignoring McCreary County v. ACLU of Kentucky.

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You actually think that once the court makes an opinion that it is forever? The court once upheld Jim Crow laws. It shifts and opinions change. I learn this in grammar school civics

 

[Darkforbid]

A 150 years ago you could have, at least here in the USA.
Because Christian's could read the Bible and see for themselves that slavery was ordained by God.
Tom

Rubbish slavery is in the bible because it was a common practice everywhere

 

[Skwim]

You actually think that once the court makes an opinion that it is forever? The court once upheld Jim Crow laws. It shifts and opinions change. I learn this in grammar school civics

Now this is one sad retort. Reminds me of junior high school rhetoric.


.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Now this is one sad retort. Reminds me of junior high school rhetoric.


.

You really don't think that the court shifts and that opinions get challenged?

 

[Skwim]

Rubbish slavery is in the bible because it was a common practice everywhere

Just like homosexuality. Not widespread mind you, but common nonetheless.

.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not saying that. I am saying that the Clause does not apply to municipal or county governments, it only apply to the federal government by virtue of the 1st amendment and to states by virtue of the 14th

Then why is that not how the law views it? States do, after all, have their on congress, who shall not, per the First, make any laws respecting the establishment of religion.
And I guarantee those aren't even the actual 10 Commandments they are erecting. And the idea our laws are based on what is often and erroneously regarded as the 10 is utterly ridiculous, because straight from the start our First and god's First through Fifth (or fourth, depending on religion and denomination) are inherently opposed to each other and fundamentally incompatible. We also have problems with a blank statement of "honor thy mother and thy father," because we have laws that do not respect a handful of them as parents and they have their parentship legally terminated for things such as child abuse and sexual molestation. Coveting things and adultery we don't care about, and have no laws against them but, again, those are incompatible and opposed to our laws. Murder and theft prohibitions are found almost universally. So, no, they shouldn't go up at any government building.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You really don't think that the court shifts and that opinions get challenged?

The Church/State separation and "all inclusive or all exclusive" have been so consistently held up that it is incredibly unlikely the SC will ever reverse prior rulings on the matter. It's already a very rare occurrence for the SC to reverse any prior judgement, let alone that has been reinforced on multiple occasions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Rubbish slavery is in the bible because it was a common practice everywhere

The Bible permits and allows slavery, and even establishes policies for how severely you can beat them, because they are your property.

 

[Neutral Name]

In which case angered citizens may exercise the right of the sledge hammer---actually, I'd like to see the thing put up just to see it torn down.

"For some reason, the commissioners in Hamilton County, Texas think it’d be a great idea to install a stand-alone Ten Commandments monument outside the local courthouse, despite a very clear Supreme Court ruling that says that very thing is an illegal promotion of Christianity.

There’s already an “In God We Trust” sign outside the courthouse which skirts the boundary of church/state separation but has traditionally been on the “legal” side of it. The Ten Commandments one, however, would cross that boundary without question.

When the commissioners met this week, the discussion went in the wrong direction when a local judge cosplaying Roy Moore insisted there was nothing wrong with the potential Christian monument.

“I have no problem bringing it before the court and the will of the people in my opinion will be served,” County Judge Mark Tynes said.

“There have been those who waved the Constitution at me and I said, ‘OK wonderful, show me in the Constitution where what we are doing is against the Constitution?’”​

It’s in the amendments somewhere. One of the first few, I think. Pretty early in the bunch.

Christ, that man is a judge…"
source

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What is it, the water they drink down south?

.​

First, I have been in a few courtrooms and have seen "In God We Trust" behind the judge. I guess that could mean Jehovah, Allah, Brahma, the Great Spirit and whatever else God could be called but I think it is a little Judeo-Christian to do that. How about "In Allah we trust". Would that be ok? Or maybe we could say "In mother goddess we trust". Would that be ok? Somehow, I feel like the "Christians" have won out in this country even though it is supposed to be a melting pot which, to me, would also include religions of people who immigrated from other countries. So, to me, to be fair and reasonable. we need something which states "In All Gods We Trust". It is unjust to choose the Judeo-Christian God and expect everyone to follow it. How can someone swear to God on the Bible in a court room if they aren't Christian? Our country is lacking something. There is a deep misunderstanding of World Religions. Something in the U.S. is very archaic.

Also, what about atheists? If we live in a country where we are free to worship in whatever way we wish. Then, if we wish not to worship, that should be recognized. How can one swear to God if they don't believe in God?

To me, there is something inherently wrong with our country. No, that doesn't mean that I should leave our country. It means that I should push for our country to be more just because I am an American and do have the right to say what I believe.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Just like homosexuality. Not widespread mind you, but common nonetheless.

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I object! I am certainly NOT "common."

 

[Enoch07]

A 150 years ago you could have, at least here in the USA.
Because Christian's could read the Bible and see for themselves that slavery was ordained by God.
Tom

Take it up with the native Africans that enslaved their own brothers and sisters then sold them to white men. Black on black crime goes back a couple of thousand years, long before white man got involved.