hard being an atheist

[rhyshanan]

I've always been an atheist.

Atheism has may rewards. Not knowing the answers to big questions can be exciting for the curious mind.

But it can also be a somewhat lonely existance. They say atheists are like herding cats, they are fractured, often recluse and it isnt often you hear of an atheist lobby or sociaty. Religion offers to bind a community, idiology being the glue.

I have a jewish friend who has been offered amazing jobs from his jewish community because alot of jews in his community have positions in very high places. He is now living a somewhat luxuroius life because of it.
I have jewish relatives and the question was posed to me, why don't I 'fake it' in order
to meet these high up people and ... stand on the shoulders of these giants.
But I just can't, I'm an honest athiest and I think all atheist are honest (at least with themselfs)

Then there is the death aspect of atheism, the only thing more traumatic then watching someone pass away knowing that they are not going to be better off, is knowing that they are afraid of vanishing from existance and using religion to calm that fear, but to see them die in denial ... a denial born from fear ... makes me saddest of all.

 

[Riverwolf]

There are plenty of other sub-cultures besides religious ones, you know. Find something that interests you, and join the subculture that goes with it.

When it comes to death, I really don't care. I like the idea of reincarnation, but what happens after death isn't known, isn't important, and I don't think it should be. Regardless, death is a release from suffering, and if there's nothing left of individuality afterwards, that's fine.

I think people prefer to die in peace than in fear, though. Don't you think?

 

[rhyshanan]

I think people prefer to die in peace than in fear, though. Don't you think?

Yes of course, but I see it more like a falling person grasping at air for something to hold on to. maybe suicide bombers demonstrate they believe 100%. but in most of the family/friend debates I've had, they say it's 'nice' to believe it. It makes them seem (to me) desperate for hope, and I don't rebut them on this point because of it.

 

[hyacinthus]

you are not alone, rhysanan. I can closely relate to your predicament. Ten years ago i was a joyful devoted, disciplined boy who had strong faith in God. Almost all the good qualities and virtues were in me--i was patient, kind and generous until a rude, arrogant evolutionist stepped into my life and turned it upside down. My admiration for him induced me to emulate him. I became arrogant, rude and cold-blooded. It ruined my relationships with my relatives and friends. worse i adopted Machiavellian and Nietzschean ethics. I was a living devil since, not immune anymore to depression, anxiety and lust. That's why i hate people who disturb other people's ordered life. Many believers are positive thinkers with qualities that are conducive to their success in life. on the other hand, atheists are normally enshrouded by negative thoughts that suicide seems always a possible option for them. I read a lot about atheists committing suicide, one well known figure is Ernest Hemingway...then there's the moral issues connected with atheism. I am an agnostic atheist and I am not proud of it. religion could be based on lies and deceptions, yet it is the only reliable bulwark for your soul in this miserable world. At times we need to think like a lawyer--think what's useful or pragmatic instead of what's in consonant with the world of appearance but detrimental to out health and well-being....

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes of course, but I see it more like a falling person grasping at air for something to hold on to.

...how so?

maybe suicide bombers demonstrate they believe 100%.

What do bombers have to do with it?

but in most of the family/friend debates I've had, they say it's 'nice' to believe it. It makes them seem (to me) desperate for hope, and I don't rebut them on this point because of it.

"Nice?" That's it? Just "nice?"

And "hope" for what, exactly?

 

[rhyshanan]

suicide seems always a possible option for them

Yes, suicide is a possibility. Only the imagined outcome differs. For the religious it is punishment. For the atheist it is ... nothingness. For the suicide bomber it is ... reward.

then there's the moral issues connected with atheism.

Mmm, yes, atheists are more moral because life is more precious to an atheist. Life is less precious to those who think they will be returning to live again, and again, and again.

I am an agnostic atheist and I am not proud of it.

You should be. They say atheist's don't pray for wind, they learn to sail. You more of an asset to the development of our civilization than the people who have seemingly convinced you otherwise.

...how so?

how so, what? I was explaining how it hurts (me) to see someone believe out of fear of death.

What do bombers have to do with it?

suicide bombers do not believe out of fear of death, they demonstrate that by blowing themselfs up.

Nice That's it? Just nice?

yes, nice. You could use the word 'comforting'

for what, exactly?

hope for life after death ... obviosuly

 

[Starsoul]

you are not alone, rhysanan. I can closely relate to your predicament. Ten years ago i was a joyful devoted, disciplined boy who had strong faith in God. Almost all the good qualities and virtues were in me--i was patient, kind and generous until a rude, arrogant evolutionist stepped into my life and turned it upside down. My admiration for him induced me to emulate him. I became arrogant, rude and cold-blooded. It ruined my relationships with my relatives and friends. worse i adopted Machiavellian and Nietzschean ethics. I was a living devil since, not immune anymore to depression, anxiety and lust. That's why i hate people who disturb other people's ordered life. Many believers are positive thinkers with qualities that are conducive to their success in life. on the other hand, atheists are normally enshrouded by negative thoughts that suicide seems always a possible option for them. I read a lot about atheists committing suicide, one well known figure is Ernest Hemingway...then there's the moral issues connected with atheism. I am an agnostic atheist and I am not proud of it. religion could be based on lies and deceptions, yet it is the only reliable bulwark for your soul in this miserable world. At times we need to think like a lawyer--think what's useful or pragmatic instead of what's in consonant with the world of appearance but detrimental to out health and well-being....

I can relate to all this too to an extent, while being a believer. Although some religions have found to contain huge distortions of the actual fact, but that does not steer humans away from seeking the truth for long. I personally found my route back to sanity after having read the Quran because it not only makes sense, your heart confirms the truth that it comes with. You suddenly know that it is the truth without any doubts. anyhow that was my story.

But yes, doubts do exist for those who have had a hard time with any previous religious or non-religious beliefs, it just becomes a bit tormenting swaying away from one belief to the other , investing all your efforts in it and later questioning its validity, after dealing with the mess that it creates in your life.

However, one can atleast sincerely ask God, if he exists, for inclination to the truth rather than being in 'one miserable state of mind of disbelief for long' , enough to be rude and extremely unsuccessful in personal relationships, (like most atheists i know, could be better for some who haven't gone through any setbacks in life) and eventually leading some to suicide.

I've seen how the mental pressures arising from disbelief are ENORMOUS to be held by man alone for long, he Needs God to share it with and he needs to know he stands a better chance. It is just too disturbing not to believe in the concept of eternal happiness and a suffering free life. I cannot even begin to imagine how atheists handle it all. :faint:

here's a link to one of the posts that throw just a bit of light on the concept of evilness and goodness..Its not a complete one, but just some initial parts of it.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2159996-post3016.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2161149-post346.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2161164-post347.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2161180-post348.html

 

[Riverwolf]

how so, what? I was explaining how it hurts (me) to see someone believe out of fear of death.

And I'm asking you to elaborate, because I don't really see it that way.

suicide bombers do not believe out of fear of death, they demonstrate that by blowing themselfs up.

Well, suicide bombers aren't exactly models of intelligence, so...

I've always said that if someone doesn't have a fear of death, that person is mentally ill. I read once on the BBC that violent extremists have roughly the same amount of intelligence as the stereotypical football player.

yes, nice. You could use the word 'comforting'

Huh... funny how I'm religious, but my comfort is in my nerdiness, not God. I turn to religion for more than simple "comfort."

hope for life after death ... obviosuly

Not so obvious; like I said, I don't care that much what happens after death, and I think it's silly for anyone to focus on that to the point where this life is missed.

 

[Tathagata]

Being an Atheist is not at all difficult for me. In fact, I find it to be liberating because you no longer have to live life worrying about a wrathful, celestial authority breathing down your neck all the time.

You say that the religious have an ideology that glues them together, but there many common philosophies that Atheists agree upon as well. I know some Atheists deny it, but Atheism is a world view and they all share this similar world view.

As far as death, Mark Twain put it perfectly: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."


.

 

[Quiddity]

I'm gonna go out in a limb here and doubt your atheism.

 

[rhyshanan]

Being an Atheist is not at all difficult for me. In fact, I find it to be liberating because you no longer have to live life worrying about a wrathful, celestial authority breathing down your neck all the time.

You say that the religious have an ideology that glues them together, but there many common philosophies that Atheists agree upon as well. I know some Atheists deny it, but Atheism is a world view and they all share this similar world view.

As far as death, Mark Twain put it perfectly: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
.

I agree with everything you've said. I believe the same and have heard those points made a number of times by well known atheists.

Atheism is a world view the same way a chemotherapy patient's bald head is a hairstyle ... they didn't choose to be bald. So again i agree it is a world view, but it isn't a belief.

 

[sandandfoam]

So again i agree it is a world view, but it isn't a belief.

I thought it just meant one didn't believe in a beardy guy sitting on a cloud stirring up trouble

 

[sandandfoam]

I've always been an atheist.

Atheism has may rewards. Not knowing the answers to big questions can be exciting for the curious mind.

But it can also be a somewhat lonely existance. They say atheists are like herding cats, they are fractured, often recluse and it isnt often you hear of an atheist lobby or sociaty. Religion offers to bind a community, idiology being the glue.

I have a jewish friend who has been offered amazing jobs from his jewish community because alot of jews in his community have positions in very high places. He is now living a somewhat luxuroius life because of it.
I have jewish relatives and the question was posed to me, why don't I 'fake it' in order
to meet these high up people and ... stand on the shoulders of these giants.
But I just can't, I'm an honest athiest and I think all atheist are honest (at least with themselfs)

Then there is the death aspect of atheism, the only thing more traumatic then watching someone pass away knowing that they are not going to be better off, is knowing that they are afraid of vanishing from existance and using religion to calm that fear, but to see them die in denial ... a denial born from fear ... makes me saddest of all.

You could always follow Behan and be a daylight atheist.

 

[Eliot Wild]

I've always been an atheist.

Atheism has may rewards. Not knowing the answers to big questions can be exciting for the curious mind.

But it can also be a somewhat lonely existance. They say atheists are like herding cats, they are fractured, often recluse and it isnt often you hear of an atheist lobby or sociaty. Religion offers to bind a community, idiology being the glue.

I have a jewish friend who has been offered amazing jobs from his jewish community because alot of jews in his community have positions in very high places. He is now living a somewhat luxuroius life because of it.
I have jewish relatives and the question was posed to me, why don't I 'fake it' in order
to meet these high up people and ... stand on the shoulders of these giants.
But I just can't, I'm an honest athiest and I think all atheist are honest (at least with themselfs)

Then there is the death aspect of atheism, the only thing more traumatic then watching someone pass away knowing that they are not going to be better off, is knowing that they are afraid of vanishing from existance and using religion to calm that fear, but to see them die in denial ... a denial born from fear ... makes me saddest of all.

Ehhhh, look on the bright side . . . Maybe you're wrong.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Religion-based nepotism actually sounds like one of the more compelling reasons to be religious that I've encountered.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Religion-based nepotism actually sounds like one of the more compelling reasons to be religious that I've encountered.

That, and the free wine and bread you get everytime they do the Lord's Supper. That is, of course, why I would most likely join a church. Also, some of them Christian babes are hot.

 

[rhyshanan]

That, and the free wine and bread you get everytime they do the Lord's Supper. That is, of course, why I would most likely join a church. Also, some of them Christian babes are hot.

well if you're gonna be dishonest, why stop there? become the minister, no education required, free money, tax exemption, government subsidies and part time ownership of fellow primates.

 

[Eliot Wild]

well if you're gonna be dishonest, why stop there? become the minister, no education required, free money, tax exemption, government subsidies and part time ownership of fellow primates.

I certainly do like the way you think. Plus, don't you get to run redlights and park anywhere you want and carry a gun? Oh wait, that's a police officer. Ehh, if I were a minister I could probably get away with running a redlight or two every now and then.

 

[hyacinthus]

Being an Atheist is not at all difficult for me. In fact, I find it to be liberating because you no longer have to live life worrying about a wrathful, celestial authority breathing down your neck all the time.

You say that the religious have an ideology that glues them together, but there many common philosophies that Atheists agree upon as well. I know some Atheists deny it, but Atheism is a world view and they all share this similar world view.

As far as death, Mark Twain put it perfectly: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."


.

You are a different version of atheist, my friend-- The non-theist or spiritual atheist. your spiritual system doesn't require you to belief in any gods, but exhorts you to adhere to certain principles common to any religions. I find the original teachings of buddha (the ones devoid of metaphysical teachings) quite logical and sensible. Alas not all atheists subscribe to the wonderful principles of Buddhism which teaches love and compassion not limited to humans but all sentient beings as well. Many atheists are quite obnoxious and unpredictable.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I certainly do like the way you think. Plus, don't you get to run redlights and park anywhere you want and carry a gun? Oh wait, that's a police officer. Ehh, if I were a minister I could probably get away with running a redlight or two every now and then.

My grandmother's next-door neighbour had a fake but convincing placard on his car's dashboard that said "Toronto Police Chaplain - On Official Business". He never got a parking ticket.