hard being an atheist

[linwood]

You are a different version of atheist, my friend-- The non-theist or spiritual atheist. your spiritual system doesn't require you to belief in any gods, but exhorts you to adhere to certain principles common to any religions. I find the original teachings of buddha (the ones devoid of metaphysical teachings) quite logical and sensible. Alas not all atheists subscribe to the wonderful principles of Buddhism which teaches love and compassion not limited to humans but all sentient beings as well. Many atheists are quite obnoxious and unpredictable.

So you`re either a Buddhist atheist or you`re obnoxious and unpredictable?

There` s a fallacy there somewhere.

I have no fear of death, I fear dying
Death is nothing, literally nothing.

I fear for my family when I`m gone.
I do not fear being gone.
I am saddened by the thought.

I pity theists who cling even stronger to belief in an afterlife when death comes calling.
It strikes me as horribly weak & pathetic.

I am also quite certain I do not share the same or even remotely similar worldview as our Buddhist atheist above.

There, I think that was obnoxious enough.

Very predictable though.
I`ll work on that.

 

[Eliot Wild]

My grandmother's next-door neighbour had a fake but convincing placard on his car's dashboard that said "Toronto Police Chaplain - On Official Business". He never got a parking ticket.

Brilliant . . . I'm having one hand-made for my car tomorrow.

 

[hyacinthus]

So you`re either a Buddhist atheist or you`re obnoxious and unpredictable?

There` s a fallacy there somewhere.

Notice that I used the word "many" instead of "all." Not all non-Buddhist atheist are bad. Einstein and Spinoza were good atheists.How many compassionate,noble non-buddhist atheists have you met, my friend?

I have no fear of death, I fear dying
Death is nothing, literally nothing.

Neither do I. In fact at times I could be suicidal.

I fear for my family when I`m gone.
I do not fear being gone.
I am saddened by the thought.

Fear more the possibility of lingering here longer than them. Their earlier departure could only send pangs of untold pain to any atheists who cherish no delightful thought of their eternal non-existent.

I pity theists who cling even stronger to belief in an afterlife when death comes calling.
It strikes me as horribly weak & pathetic.

A man trapped in the bosom of a capsizing ship in the middle of a ravaging,stormy sea would instinctively learn how to pray.

I share your view on blind faith though. Nevertheless i think the believers are stronger than us emotionally and spiritually.

 

[DeitySlayer]

As I said before, the desire to believe is no match for the ability to reason. A declaration of absolute truth on the nature of the Universe is in no way influenced by personal emotion or feeling. You may feel sickened when you see pictures of starving children in flooded Pakistan; but your dislike of the state of the country will not change its reality. Point aside though, I see no negative downside to atheism. In my opinion, it brings the beauty, rarity and wonder of this world to new heights.

 

[Penumbra]

I have not noticed any particular upside or downside to being an atheist.

I suppose that if I were interested in a career in politics, the fact that I would have to lie about my religious beliefs to have any hope of success would be a downside, but I'm not interested in that career at all.

 

[xkatz]

I am Jewish, and I don't believe in Heaven/Paradise. Many don't. Have you considered Humanistic Judaism?

 

[linwood]

Notice that I used the word "many" instead of "all." Not all non-Buddhist atheist are bad. Einstein and Spinoza were good atheists.How many compassionate,noble non-buddhist atheists have you met, my friend?

The vast majority actually.
In my experience it is the theist who lacks compassion or empathy for those who do not tow his line.

Fear more the possibility of lingering here longer than them. Their earlier departure could only send pangs of untold pain to any atheists who cherish no delightful thought of their eternal non-existent.

Really?
I`ve never felt such pain over lost loved ones.
I have more than a few.
Non-existence beats the hell out of damnation.

A man trapped in the bosom of a capsizing ship in the middle of a ravaging,stormy sea would instinctively learn how to pray.

Pat ******* Tillman.

I share your view on blind faith though. Nevertheless i think the believers are stronger than us emotionally and spiritually.

Again, not my experience.

Theists I`ve met couldn`t bear the thought of "Spiritual Oblivion".
Their fear is so great they seem to prefer an afterlife existence equal to zombiehood.

 

[Starsoul]

Medicine: The Discovery of How "Hearts Find Peace"
​

Another branch of science affected by the collapse of atheist suppositions was medicine.


According to results compiled by David B. Larson and his team at the National Institute for Healthcare Research, a comparison among Americans in relation to their observance of religious duties yielded very interesting results. The risk of arteriosclerotic heart disease for men who attended church frequently was just 60 percent of that for men who were infrequent church attendees; among women, suicide was twice as high among infrequent as among frequent church attenders; smokers who ranked religion as very important in their lives were over seven times less likely to have normal diastolic pressure readings than were those who did not.

Dr. Herbert Benson of the Harvard Faculty of Medicine​

Secular psychologists generally explain such phenomena as having a psychological cause. In this sense, faith raises a person's morale and contributes to his or her well-being. There may be some truth in this explanation, but if we look more closely, we see something much more dramatic: Belief in God is far stronger than any other influence on one's morale. In comprehensive research on the relationship between religious belief and physical health, Dr. Herbert Benson of the Harvard Medical School came up with some interesting results.


Although he has no religious faith, Benson concluded that faith in God and worship had a far more positive effect on human health than could be observed in anything else.

Benson concludes that he has "found that faith quiets the mind like no other form of belief."
Why is there such a special relation among faith, the human spirit, and the body? Benson, a secular researcher, stated that the human mind and body are "wired for God."

This fact, which the medical world is slowly beginning to notice, is a secret revealed in

The Qur'an: "Only in the remembrance of God can the heart find peace." (Qur'an, 13:28)


The reason why those who believe in God, pray to Him and trust in Him are physically and mentally healthier than others is that they behave in harmony with their nature. Philosophical systems opposed to human nature always bring pain, sorrow, anxiety, and depression in their wake.

The basic source of religious people's peace is that they act in order to gain God's approval. In other words, this peace is the natural result of listening to the voice of one's conscience. People who live the morality of religion simply "to be more at peace" or "to be healthier" cannot live according to the morality of religion; those who act with this intention cannot find peace in its true sense. God well knows what people store in their hearts and what they reveal.

Peace of mind comes only by being sincere and attempting to gain God's approval. God commands.

"So set your face firmly towards the [true] religion, as a pure natural believer, God's natural pattern on which He made mankind. There is no changing God's creation. That is the true religion-but most people do not know it." (Qur'an, 30:30)

 

[Caladan]

I've always been an atheist.

Atheism has may rewards. Not knowing the answers to big questions can be exciting for the curious mind.

But it can also be a somewhat lonely existance. They say atheists are like herding cats, they are fractured, often recluse and it isnt often you hear of an atheist lobby or sociaty. Religion offers to bind a community, idiology being the glue.

I have a jewish friend who has been offered amazing jobs from his jewish community because alot of jews in his community have positions in very high places. He is now living a somewhat luxuroius life because of it.
I have jewish relatives and the question was posed to me, why don't I 'fake it' in order
to meet these high up people and ... stand on the shoulders of these giants.
But I just can't, I'm an honest athiest and I think all atheist are honest (at least with themselfs)

Then there is the death aspect of atheism, the only thing more traumatic then watching someone pass away knowing that they are not going to be better off, is knowing that they are afraid of vanishing from existance and using religion to calm that fear, but to see them die in denial ... a denial born from fear ... makes me saddest of all.

I have a different experience. me and my friends are mostly atheists/secular, we are also Jewish technically, this fact hasn't stop many of my friends to find success. I'm not sure I'm following your thread, are you saying that because you do not show as much enthusiasm to tradition as the people around you, you cannot move forward?

 

[Midnight Pete]

I've always been an atheist.

Atheism has may rewards. Not knowing the answers to big questions can be exciting for the curious mind.

But it can also be a somewhat lonely existance. They say atheists are like herding cats, they are fractured, often recluse and it isnt often you hear of an atheist lobby or sociaty. Religion offers to bind a community, idiology being the glue.

I have a jewish friend who has been offered amazing jobs from his jewish community because alot of jews in his community have positions in very high places. He is now living a somewhat luxuroius life because of it.
I have jewish relatives and the question was posed to me, why don't I 'fake it' in order
to meet these high up people and ... stand on the shoulders of these giants.
But I just can't, I'm an honest athiest and I think all atheist are honest (at least with themselfs)

Then there is the death aspect of atheism, the only thing more traumatic then watching someone pass away knowing that they are not going to be better off, is knowing that they are afraid of vanishing from existance and using religion to calm that fear, but to see them die in denial ... a denial born from fear ... makes me saddest of all.

Crocodile tears, crocodile tears.

What was it that Christopher Hitchens said about Jerry Falwell upon the latter's passing?

"It's a shame there's no hell for Falwell to go to ..."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Medicine: The Discovery of How "Hearts Find Peace" ​

Another branch of science affected by the collapse of atheist suppositions was medicine.


According to results compiled by David B. Larson and his team at the National Institute for Healthcare Research, a comparison among Americans in relation to their observance of religious duties yielded very interesting results. The risk of arteriosclerotic heart disease for men who attended church frequently was just 60 percent of that for men who were infrequent church attendees; among women, suicide was twice as high among infrequent as among frequent church attenders; smokers who ranked religion as very important in their lives were over seven times less likely to have normal diastolic pressure readings than were those who did not.

Dr. Herbert Benson of the Harvard Faculty of Medicine​

Secular psychologists generally explain such phenomena as having a psychological cause. In this sense, faith raises a person's morale and contributes to his or her well-being. There may be some truth in this explanation, but if we look more closely, we see something much more dramatic: Belief in God is far stronger than any other influence on one's morale. In comprehensive research on the relationship between religious belief and physical health, Dr. Herbert Benson of the Harvard Medical School came up with some interesting results.


Although he has no religious faith, Benson concluded that faith in God and worship had a far more positive effect on human health than could be observed in anything else.

Benson concludes that he has "found that faith quiets the mind like no other form of belief."
Why is there such a special relation among faith, the human spirit, and the body? Benson, a secular researcher, stated that the human mind and body are "wired for God."

Baloney.

- people who attend church frequently have at least one human support network to fall back on in times of distress. Church groups provide material support to their parishoners when they're sick or otherwise in distress. This type of benefit that a church community provides has absolutely nothing to do with religious faith; it's simply people helping other people.

- people who attend church frequently have at least one human social group to which they belong. Loneliness can be a killer; people who belong to a church interact regularly with at least one social group. Those who don't attend church may or may not have much interaction with others.

- most of the studies you mention have a built-in selection bias. If a person attends church regularly, this necessarily implies that he or she is well enough to get out and about. When a regular church-goer gets so ill that they have to be admitted to a hospital or become bed-ridden, then they suddenly drop out of the "regular church attendees" group and join the "non-attendees" group. IOW, these studies are set up so that you have to have at least a minimum level of health to be counted in the one group, but you can be counted as a member of the other group even if you're sick as a dog. This creates an inherent bias in the study results.

 

[rhyshanan]

I have a different experience. me and my friends are mostly atheists/secular, we are also Jewish technically, this fact hasn't stop many of my friends to find success. I'm not sure I'm following your thread, are you saying that because you do not show as much enthusiasm to tradition as the people around you, you cannot move forward?

I'm saying some religions act as valuable social networks (one of many types, yes), while other beliefs (or lack thereof) don't offer this, or not to the same extent. Just speaking from my experiances of course

 

[rhyshanan]

Crocodile tears, crocodile tears.

What was it that Christopher Hitchens said about Jerry Falwell upon the latter's passing?

"It's a shame there's no hell for Falwell to go to ..."

thank you for your helpful crocodile tears.
I know the quote well, no idea what it has to do with the topic.

I prefer ... "If Jerry Falwell had an enema, he could be buried in a matchbox"

 

[Midnight Pete]

you are not alone, rhysanan. I can closely relate to your predicament. Ten years ago i was a joyful devoted, disciplined boy who had strong faith in God. Almost all the good qualities and virtues were in me--i was patient, kind and generous until a rude, arrogant evolutionist stepped into my life and turned it upside down. My admiration for him induced me to emulate him. I became arrogant, rude and cold-blooded. It ruined my relationships with my relatives and friends. worse i adopted Machiavellian and Nietzschean ethics. I was a living devil since, not immune anymore to depression, anxiety and lust. That's why i hate people who disturb other people's ordered life. Many believers are positive thinkers with qualities that are conducive to their success in life. on the other hand, atheists are normally enshrouded by negative thoughts that suicide seems always a possible option for them. I read a lot about atheists committing suicide, one well known figure is Ernest Hemingway...then there's the moral issues connected with atheism. I am an agnostic atheist and I am not proud of it. religion could be based on lies and deceptions, yet it is the only reliable bulwark for your soul in this miserable world. At times we need to think like a lawyer--think what's useful or pragmatic instead of what's in consonant with the world of appearance but detrimental to out health and well-being....

I want to thank you for sharing something so personal. What you wrote here means me a lot to me as a person who feels assailed by fear, doubt, and disbelief so often. It's so gratifying to read about the groanings of another person's soul.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I've always been an atheist.

Atheism has may rewards. Not knowing the answers to big questions can be exciting for the curious mind.

But it can also be a somewhat lonely existance. They say atheists are like herding cats, they are fractured, often recluse and it isnt often you hear of an atheist lobby or sociaty. Religion offers to bind a community, idiology being the glue.

I have a jewish friend who has been offered amazing jobs from his jewish community because alot of jews in his community have positions in very high places. He is now living a somewhat luxuroius life because of it.
I have jewish relatives and the question was posed to me, why don't I 'fake it' in order
to meet these high up people and ... stand on the shoulders of these giants.
But I just can't, I'm an honest athiest and I think all atheist are honest (at least with themselfs)

Then there is the death aspect of atheism, the only thing more traumatic then watching someone pass away knowing that they are not going to be better off, is knowing that they are afraid of vanishing from existance and using religion to calm that fear, but to see them die in denial ... a denial born from fear ... makes me saddest of all.

Atheists get to mock and taunt religious folk and derive a sense of superiority from that. They've got science on their side. They can say, "Show me your god and I'll believe." They're always right. And every baby is born atheist. So how tough could it be?

 

[Midnight Pete]

thank you for your helpful crocodile tears.
I know the quote well, no idea what it has to do with the topic.

I prefer ... "If Jerry Falwell had an enema, he could be buried in a matchbox"

I was no fan of the late Jerry Falwell, just so we're clear on that. I did not like him any more than than Hitchens, actually.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheists get to mock and taunt religious folk and derive a sense of superiority from that. They've got science on their side. They can say, "Show me your god and I'll believe." They're always right. And every baby is born atheist. So how tough could it be?

Does your government actually pay organizations money (your tax money) for encouraging people to become atheists?

Does your government support taxpayer-funded atheist schools?

Does your Charter proclaim that your nation is founded on the non-existence of God?

How often does it happen that atheist parents throw their teenager out of the house or subject them to physical abuse for coming out of the closet as a Christian?

You're a member of the largest, most powerful religion in the world and in the country. You're not going to convince me that you're being hard-done by when atheists try to claim the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

 

[bobhikes]

I've always been an atheist.

But I just can't, I'm an honest athiest and I think all atheist are honest (at least with themselfs)

Then there is the death aspect of atheism, the only thing more traumatic then watching someone pass away knowing that they are not going to be better off, is knowing that they are afraid of vanishing from existance and using religion to calm that fear, but to see them die in denial ... a denial born from fear ... makes me saddest of all.

I consider myself an honest atheist but only shout out to the world when I am asked. To date I have never been asked in public(not counting on-line) my stance on religion I am 45 years old. Only my direct family has ever been concerned.

I have a unique view of religion that helps me engage the religious. I believe religion to be helpful and natural for the general population. I believe atheism is learned.

For me the majority of the world is religious and I am not going to get anywhere beating them down so I don't.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Does your government actually pay organizations money (your tax money) for encouraging people to become atheists?

There are atheist leagues and humanist organizations, but I can't say if my government is funding them or not. I don't know.

Does your government support taxpayer-funded atheist schools?

Do atheists need their own schools?

Does your Charter proclaim that your nation is founded on the non-existence of God?

No, I don't think so. I don't think my country is a theocracy, either.

How often does it happen that atheist parents throw their teenager out of the house or subject them to physical abuse for coming out of the closet as a Christian?

I don't know, but atheist households do exist here. I don't think what you describe is that farfetched because hatred of Christians and Christianity is still rising.

You're a member of the largest, most powerful religion in the world and in the country. You're not going to convince me that you're being hard-done by when atheists try to claim the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

I'm not hard-done by when atheists try to claim the same rights and privileges as everyone else. I do not make that claim. Canadian atheists are guaranteed the same freedom of conscience in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as any other group. They are not forbidden to be atheists.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are atheist leagues and humanist organizations, but I can't say if my government is funding them or not. I don't know.

Canadian law specifically recognizes "promotion of religion" as a "charitable purpose" all on its own.

Do atheists need their own schools?

Of course not. But neither do Christians... yet we have them, paid for at taxpayer expense.

No, I don't think so. I don't my country is a theocracy, either.

It's not a theocracy, but religious belief pervades our country in sometimes surprising ways. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms begins with this:

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

Can you imagine atheists ever being so audacious as to decide that non-belief in God should be upheld as a foundational principle of the entire nation in one of its highest laws? I can't.

I don't know, but atheist households do exist here. I don't think what you describe is that farfetched because hatred of Christians and Christianity is still rising.

Really?

It's a serious enough problem in the reverse situation that on one atheist call-in show that I listen to, their stock answer when a teenage atheist asks how they should "come out" to their Christian parents is "if you feel that you might be in danger, don't do it."

I'm not hard-done by when atheists try to claim the same rights and privileges as everyone else. I do not make that claim. Canadian atheists are guaranteed the same freedom of conscience in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as any other group.

No, they're not, actually.

Discrimination against atheists in Canada is nowhere near as bad as it is in other parts of the world, but there is still a double standard both in terms of societal acceptance and law: one for theists and one for atheists.

For instance, from the Charter:

RIGHTS RESPECTING CERTAIN SCHOOLS PRESERVED.
29. Nothing in this Charter abrogates or derogates from any rights or privileges guaranteed by or under the Constitution of Canada in respect of denominational, separate or dissentient schools.