Harsh Truth: If Intelligent Design is Untestable . . .

[metis]

But it happened, maybe just by a chance.

Who knows for sure. Certainly we can assume there are causes, but I'm far from sure God had anything to do with it, especially since I don't lean towards there being an interventionist God..

 

[FearGod]

Facts. People of the period did know what a developing fetus looked like because they saw them.

Yes, I observed many of them, yesterday i saw a monkey miscarried.

 

[Revoltingest]

ID predicts that everything will be exactly like we can see it
Oh, look! Everything is exactly like we see it, therefore it must be true
(That's got to be right, right?)

That is indeed troubling if one wants to apply the scientific method.

 

[Revoltingest]

ID predicts that everything will be exactly like we can see it
Oh, look! Everything is exactly like we see it, therefore it must be true
(That's got to be right, right?)

That is indeed troubling if one wants to apply the scientific method.

 

[Revoltingest]

ID predicts that everything will be exactly like we can see it
Oh, look! Everything is exactly like we see it, therefore it must be true
(That's got to be right, right?)

That is indeed troubling if one wants to apply the scientific method.

 

[leibowde84]

Creation more correct as it deals with nature whereas to develop is an action done by intervention.

Actually, the opposite is true. Look below at the definitions of these words used in this context.

1. "Create" - verb

1. bring (something) into existence.
   "he created a thirty-acre lake"
   synonyms: produce, generate, bring into being, make, fabricate, fashion, build,construct; More
   • cause (something) to happen as a result of one's actions.
     "divorce only created problems for children"
     synonyms: bring about, give rise to, lead to, result in, cause, breed, generate,engender, produce, make for, promote, foster, sow the seeds of,contribute to
     "regular socializing creates good team spirit"

Creation requires intervention. Something or someone has to do the creating. Just take a quick look at every example. There has to be something or someone doing the creating.
2. With development, there certainly is no necessity for any intervention, as the subject associated with the verb is the thing "developing".
Develop, which means to "grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate", does not require any intervention, as the subject of the verb in this case is the one doing the developing. (e.g., "the zygote developed into a fetus in the womb"). While the word "develop" can mean "to create a product or idea" in certain circumstances, that is not the meaning of the term when discussing fetal development.

Does this make things more clear? Why did you think that "growing and becoming more mature" would require "intervention", yet "bringing something into existence" doesn't? I'm very confused as to the thinking behind your previous comment.

 

[Revoltingest]

ID predicts that everything will be exactly like we can see it
Oh, look! Everything is exactly like we see it, therefore it must be true
(That's got to be right, right?)

That is indeed troubling if one wants to apply the scientific method.

 

[leibowde84]

Creation more correct as it deals with nature whereas to develop is an action done by intervention.

Actually, the opposite is true. Look below at the definitions of these words used in this context.

1. "Create" - verb

1. bring (something) into existence.
   "he created a thirty-acre lake"
   synonyms: produce, generate, bring into being, make, fabricate, fashion, build,construct; More
   • cause (something) to happen as a result of one's actions.
     "divorce only created problems for children"
     synonyms: bring about, give rise to, lead to, result in, cause, breed, generate,engender, produce, make for, promote, foster, sow the seeds of,contribute to
     "regular socializing creates good team spirit"

Creation requires intervention. Something or someone has to do the creating. Just take a quick look at every example. There has to be something or someone doing the creating.
2. With development, there certainly is no necessity for any intervention, as the subject associated with the verb is the thing "developing".
Develop, which means to "grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate", does not require any intervention, as the subject of the verb in this case is the one doing the developing. (e.g., "the zygote developed into a fetus in the womb"). While the word "develop" can mean "to create a product or idea" in certain circumstances, that is not the meaning of the term when discussing fetal development.

Does this make things more clear? Why did you think that "growing and becoming more mature" would require "intervention", yet "bringing something into existence" doesn't? I'm very confused as to the thinking behind your previous comment.

 

[jonathan180iq]

WTH is up with your posts, fellas?

 

[Revoltingest]

WTH is up with your posts, fellas?

There are odd glitches at times.

 

[FearGod]

Facts. People of the period did know what a developing fetus looked like because they saw them.

Yes, I observed many of them, yesterday i saw a monkey miscarried.

"create - bring into existence; "The company was created 25 years ago"; "He created a new movement in painting"
- This is why you are incorrect in using the term "create", which, btw, I am not afraid of. I just think we should use it appropriately. In this instance, the womb does not bring anything into existence. The fetus merely develops in the womb. By "develop" I am referring to the meaning included in my previous post.

Creation is a process that lead something to come to existence, should they feed it to you by a spoon to understand what the word exactly means.
I did know you as a smart person, what's wrong with you today !

 

[leibowde84]

True, thats why the best word is creation, because develop means there is intervention.

You are confused because you are using a definition of the word "develop" that is incorrect in this circumstance.

Developing in this context means "growing and becoming more mature". Thus, no intervention necessary.
"Creating" means "bringing something into existence". Thus, intervention is necessary.

Where am I losing you? It seems so obvious that this would be the case, but i feel like you are getting lost in translation. How can I help you understand?

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, I observed many of them, yesterday i saw a monkey miscarried.


Creation is a process that lead something to come to existence, should they feed it to you by a spoon to understand what the word exactly means.
I did know you as a smart person, what's wrong with you today !

Can you cite where you are getting this erroneous definition for the word "create"?

You are incorrect about the meaning of the word "creation". It's not me, you are being stubborn. Creation, as you even stated, means to "bring something into existence." This definition requires someone doing the "bringing". Develop in this context merely means to grow or mature, which does not require any intervention.

You merely are making up your own definition for the term "create". In the English language, this term requires an "actor".

 

[Curious George]

Yes, I observed many of them, yesterday i saw a monkey miscarried.

Was it by the tail?... I hate it when people carry monkeys by the tail.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, I observed many of them, yesterday i saw a monkey miscarried.


Creation is a process that lead something to come to existence, should they feed it to you by a spoon to understand what the word exactly means.
I did know you as a smart person, what's wrong with you today !

And, btw, I have "spoon fed" you the meaning of the term "create". You are just unwilling to abandon your own made-up definition that is flat out wrong.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, I observed many of them, yesterday i saw a monkey miscarried.


Creation is a process that lead something to come to existence, should they feed it to you by a spoon to understand what the word exactly means.
I did know you as a smart person, what's wrong with you today !

In short, "creation" is not a "process" it is an action or act. Something creates or is created. Development is a process where something grows or matures on its own. Not sure how you are reaching your conclusion by using the definitions of these terms. Are you just ignoring my explanations?

 

[FearGod]

Actually, the opposite is true. Look below at the definitions of these words used in this context.

1. "Create" - verb

1. bring (something) into existence.
   "he created a thirty-acre lake"
   synonyms: produce, generate, bring into being, make, fabricate, fashion, build,construct; More
   • cause (something) to happen as a result of one's actions.
     "divorce only created problems for children"
     synonyms: bring about, give rise to, lead to, result in, cause, breed, generate,engender, produce, make for, promote, foster, sow the seeds of,contribute to
     "regular socializing creates good team spirit"

Creation requires intervention. Something or someone has to do the creating. Just take a quick look at every example. There has to be something or someone doing the creating.
2. With development, there certainly is no necessity for any intervention, as the subject associated with the verb is the thing "developing".
Develop, which means to "grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate", does not require any intervention, as the subject of the verb in this case is the one doing the developing. (e.g., "the zygote developed into a fetus in the womb"). While the word "develop" can mean "to create a product or idea" in certain circumstances, that is not the meaning of the term when discussing fetal development.

Does this make things more clear? Why did you think that "growing and becoming more mature" would require "intervention", yet "bringing something into existence" doesn't? I'm very confused as to the thinking behind your previous comment.

Are you saying that development doesn't need human intervention, how a development can be achieved without any intervention.

 

[FearGod]

Can you cite where you are getting this erroneous definition for the word "create"?

You are incorrect about the meaning of the word "creation". It's not me, you are being stubborn. Creation, as you even stated, means to "bring something into existence." This definition requires someone doing the "bringing". Develop in this context merely means to grow or mature, which does not require any intervention.

You merely are making up your own definition for the term "create". In the English language, this term requires an "actor".

The nature is the actor.

 

[leibowde84]

Are you saying that development doesn't need human intervention, how a development can be achieved without any intervention.

Develop means to "grow or mature" in this context. Does a flower need human interaction to "grow or mature"? Sure, it needs sustenance, but it doesn't need intentional intervention. You are still using an erroneous definition of the term "develop". In the English language, the term develop has several meanings. When you are talking about "developing" something, it certainly requires intervention. That definition is practically identical to the term "create". Now, when speaking to the development of a fetus or a plant, the definition of the term changes drastically. When using it in this way, the word "develop" means to "grow or mature" just as a fetus "matures" in the womb. The fetus is already there, and had already developed from a zygote, so there is nothing new being "created". The fetus is merely developing INTO a baby.

 

[FearGod]

Was it by the tail?... I hate it when people carry monkeys by the tail.

No, from one leg, up side down.