Harsh Truth: If Intelligent Design is Untestable . . .

[jonathan180iq]

Sir, I did not come from Apes.

You are biologically, morphologically, taxonomically, and physiologically an ape.

You are a Hominid of the Genus Homo and a member of the Homo-Sapien species.

 

[Mycroft]

How about Lucy, your ancestor, can you tell me something about her? You can’t? Try Ancestry.com, maybe they have records, it’s only about 3.2 million years ago, they should have records of her and some of the other billions of supposedly missing links.

From 1 A.D. the estimated population was about 200 million to where we at right now at over 7 billion modern people. Just use your daily common sense, if we have over 7 billion modern people today in just over 2,000 years, where are the others from 3.2 million years ago that are supposedly the transitional form or the missing links BURIED? We should be drowning today with evidences from these billions of missing links.

“Why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?” –Darwin

They’ve found a few of them like the “Piltdown Man” believed to be 500,000 to 1,000,000 year old missing link.

“The scientific community celebrated Dawson's discovery as the long-awaited "missing link" between ape and man and the confirmation of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution. As the decades passed and new information came to light, however, it became clear that the Piltdown Man was not what he seemed.”

New dating technology based on fluorine testing emerged in 1939, but the Piltdown remains had been locked away after Dawson’s death in 1916 and were not extensively tested until a decade later. At that time, fluorine testing revealed that the remains were a good deal younger than had previously been claimed, closer to 50,000 than 500,000 years old. (Later, carbon-dating technology showed that the skull was actually no more than 600 years old.)

“But that wasn’t all: Upon closer examination of the Piltdown Man, scientists found that the presumed hominid’s skull and jaw actually originated from two different species, a human and an ape (possibly an orangutan). A microscope revealed that the teeth within the jaw had been filed down to make them look more human, and that many of the remains from the Piltdown site appeared to have been stained to match each other as well as the gravel where they were supposedly found. In November 1953, authorities of the British Natural History Museum announced these findings and publicly called Piltdown Man a fraud.”

There goes your theory of billions of years of evolution down the drain with the “Piltdown Man” and Darwin

 

[McBell]

That was a fact mate.

A fraud that was ferreted out by...

Oh yeah, scientists...

Interesting ow you think your fraud "argument" is anything other than a desperation move.

 

[McBell]

The God of the bible. The ONE who created the Heavens the earth. The ONE who created me. I DID NOT COME FROM A MONKEY!

Bold empty claims do not help you.

 

[McBell]

When you guys jumping at me all at the same time, it really gives me strength to answer more of your delusional theories. You know that evolution is a kind of religion, an act of philosophical faith. I forgot who said that. Darwin or Huxley?

Yes, there are those who, the more they are shown to be flat out wrong, the more they think they are right.

 

[David M]

You have a better case for Uranium/Lead there our discussion is basically semantic, but in the case of C14, "clocking" starts when the organism stops taking up Carbon.

But that is the organism rather than the isotope. Which is the point I was making, the circumstances that give us the "reset" of the clock generally differ for the different isotopes.

 

[David M]

One fraud - which was only discovered to be a fraud by the very evolutionary scientists you are insisting are behind it - does note refute the thousands of genuine fossils we have found throughout the geological strata.

And perhaps just as important... Piltdown Man had absolutetly zero influence on Darwin and his work. Mainly because Darwin died 30 years before Piltdown Man was "discovered".

 

[David M]

Don't you think it's a coincidence that better healthcare systems, longer life expectancy, and less physical labor have allowed more people to make more babies, and keep everyone alive for longer periods?

And its not as if we don't have good records going close to one thousand years or so that show that not only were populations pretty stable for some periods of time there were instances where populations shrank markedly, such as after the Black Death which we know killed half the inhabitants of some cities. Records show it took about 2 centuries for Europe's population to recover.

 

[David M]

How do you calculate the lead from uranium if nothing is decaying? Isn’t that how evolutionist got their millions or billions of years dating rocks?.

I didn't say nothing was decaying.

Thanks for confirming that you know absolutely nothing about radiometric dating other than the lies that you copy from creationist websites.

 

[Sapiens]

But that is the organism rather than the isotope. Which is the point I was making, the circumstances that give us the "reset" of the clock generally differ for the different isotopes.

Agreed.

And perhaps just as important... Piltdown Man had absolutetly zero influence on Darwin and his work. Mainly because Darwin died 30 years before Piltdown Man was "discovered".

The public was far more supportive of Piltdown man than was the scientific community, since it argued for what they desired, the first man being a white dude from England, rather than some swarthy foreigner from god-knows-where.
More's the point, Piltdown was not widely accepted in the scientific community, there were many who had and who voiced doubt. The tools to prove it a fraud had yet to be developed and it was proven a fraud quite quickly once they were.

And its not as if we don't have good records going close to one thousand years or so that show that not only were populations pretty stable for some periods of time there were instances where populations shrank markedly, such as after the Black Death which we know killed half the inhabitants of some cities. Records show it took about 2 centuries for Europe's population to recover.

Life expectancy has not changed all that much if you discount maternal and infant mortality ... that reduction has been the big change.

 

[David M]

Life expectancy has not changed all that much if you discount maternal and infant mortality ... that reduction has been the big change.

And adult mortality. Any injury could be potentially life threatening as could any infection, even those we consider minor today (just take a look at the potential issues with medical care if we end up with no more effective antibiotics).

But I think that excluding 2 of the major causes of mortality is a bit unfair, those are both major contributors to the fact that average life expectancy has changed a lot even though top end life expectancy has not changed that much, just the numbers who reach those ages.

 

[Sapiens]

And adult mortality. Any injury could be potentially life threatening as could any infection, even those we consider minor today (just take a look at the potential issues with medical care if we end up with no more effective antibiotics).

But I think that excluding 2 of the major causes of mortality is a bit unfair, those are both major contributors to the fact that average life expectancy has changed a lot even though top end life expectancy has not changed that much, just the numbers who reach those ages.

My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that if a male made it to his teens he could expect to live almost as long as he would today (excepting the years of the plague) and the if a woman made it into her teens, (excepting those who died in childbirth and the years of the plague) she could expect to live a little bit longer.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

”One fraud” Really?

You said "There goes your theory of billions of years of evolution down the drain with the “Piltdown Man”", implying that ONE FRAUD was enough to completely disprove all of the thousands of examples of genuine fossils. That's what YOU said.

How about the Javaman? Hominid, Neanderthal or Homo-Sapiens?

Are you seriously implying all of them are also frauds? I'd love to see your evidence.

You guys were supposed to evolve from the Hominid, the Javaman, and the Neanderthals but Homo-Sapiens’ remains were found in the same place where most of these supposedly prehistoric ancestors of yours were found. How do you explain that? Homo-Sapiens were running around at the same TIME with YOUR ancestors, the Hominid, the Javaman, the Neanderthals and of course don’t forget the Piltdown Man? In just over 6,000 years, with history, the population is over 7,000,000,000 people. The projected population by 2050 is around 11 billion. That is 4 billion in just 35 years and you guys are talking millions of years and we see no evidence of these missing links between you and your ancestors.

I see a lot of claims, but no evidence whatsoever. Also, neanderthals are not our ancestors - they are an extinct species of homo sapien. And why do you keep bringing up Piltdown man when we already know it is a fraud?

 

[gnostic]

What is this AAA meeting. You are in a wrong thread. Please if you have anything to say about your past life I suggest you start a new thread about it. I'm really not interested.

Again, more hypocrisy from you.

And you don't have to worry, because I have no interest in replying to you. You have already shown dishonesty with you replies with other members here, because yo have made so many bogus claims, one after another, with no evidences to back them up.

 

[Bunyip]

That was a fact mate.

No, it is a truly pathetic old fraud. Piltdown man was never accepted by science, science exposed the fraud. It disgusts me that people still tell these lies nearly a century later. Sadly no matter how many times such deceptions are exposed the creationists simply repeat them.

 

[Sapiens]

When you guys jumping at me all at the same time, it really gives me strength to answer more of your delusional theories. You know that evolution is a kind of religion, an act of philosophical faith. I forgot who said that. Darwin or Huxley?

It doesn't really matter who said that 150 years ago (if, in fact, anyone did, they were wrong). But at least you are demonstrating in your attempt to pull evolution down to the same level as a religion that it enjoys a superior place.

 

[David M]

My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that if a male made it to his teens he could expect to live almost as long as he would today (excepting the years of the plague) and the if a woman made it into her teens, (excepting those who died in childbirth and the years of the plague) she could expect to live a little bit longer.

I don't think that is correct, it may be close to modern values if we take a global average but its definitely not the case for industrialised nations. Even for adults the probability of reaching old age was greatly reduced due to the potential severity of any illness or injury. The potential maximum lifespan seems to have been not too dissimilar but the numbers reaching it as a whole were incredibly lower. Longer average lifespans among the wealthy of course but even for them reaching 60 was an achievement that needed some luck.

Disease was a big killer, especially so in the towns and cities.

Data is sparse for many centuries but in the middle ages for example a person who survived to adulthood would normally expect to live to their mid to late forties. That is a significant difference to modern industrialised nations. I remember that from anglo-saxon burials of the period none of the male labourers lived past 45. Similar stats for monks in abbeys, very, very few made it past 45.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

That was a fact mate.

Pitdown man was found to be a fraud by evolutionary scientists. The only reason it was "created" as a fake was for personal gain of an individual scientist that based it off of all of the other real discoveries that are still valid today. Unless you seem to think that all of the hominids found are fakes... is that what you believe?

 

[metis]

Pitdown man was found to be a fraud by evolutionary scientists. The only reason it was "created" as a fake was for personal gain of an individual scientist that based it off of all of the other real discoveries that are still valid today. Unless you seem to think that all of the hominids found are fakes... is that what you believe?

Exactly. And should we judge religions on the same standard he uses, namely that if there's any fraudulent minister, priest, rabbi, imam, monk, etc., that we condemn the entire religion?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Exactly. And should we judge religions on the same standard he uses, namely that if there's any fraudulent minister, priest, rabbi, imam, monk, etc., that we condemn the entire religion?

I hope not. As a monk of atheism, which is totally a religion, my failures would surely invalidate it.