Has the atheist movement helped facilitate the rise of Islam?

[MD]

The constant debates and debuking of Christianity by the atheist movement has considerable weakened the faith, especially in the West. But in this religious vacuum, Islam has come to rise. Atheists for the most part don't tackle Islam intellectually because it goes against their liberal fears of spreading Islamophobia.

Even on the debate forums here very few atheists will debate muslims, with the exception of a few, while many atheists will debate even topics like consciousness with vigor.

This has led to pretty bad consequences:

1) There are thousands of jihadists from the West, many from good homes and good educations who have gone to fight in the Middle East and will bring back their fanaticism and PTSD
2) There are billions of dollars poured into spreading Islam in the West from the Middle East oil states
3) Religious superiority reigns supreme in the Muslim world amongst the vast majority of Muslims who view the Quran as the literal and final word of God
4) Islamic population continues to rise in Europe while secular and Christian populations continue to fall

While some people can argue that the Republicans have many Christian fundamentalists, their wars have been obviously about greed and resource acquisition and very little to do with the crusades.

I believe Islam should be tackled with the same fervour that atheists use to tackle Christianity, Judaism and other faiths, that it is the literal word of God. That is an incredibly dangerous concept, more dangerous than what any other religion preaches.

 

[icehorse]

Lots to say, but one take-away: that term, "Islamophobia" is fundamentally a lie, and anyone who uses it should be seen as being dishonest in that moment.

You want to be honest? Use the word "bigot" when you see actual bigotry.

 

[Revoltingest]

We have a movement?
It doesn't seem so to me.
Sure, there are individual atheists who are prominent because
what they say about religion, but we don't act in concert.

 

[icehorse]

We have a movement?
It doesn't seem so to me.
Sure, there are individual atheists who are prominent because
what they say about religion, but we don't act in concert.

didn't you get the email with instructions for the secret handshake?

 

[MD]

didn't you get the email with instructions for the secret handshake?

Mock all you want but there is a movement for rationalism and skepticism in the Western world which criticizes all religions strongly except Islam. It even defends Islam.

 

[outhouse]

which criticizes all religions strongly except Islam. It even defends Islam.

Maybe they fear being bombed


No really can you provide a credible source brother?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

TBH I haven't seen anything remotely resembling a rational argument from muslims on these forums. At least the xtians attempt and/or pretend to be rational. The muslims don't seem to understand the difference between saying something is true and proving something is true. Arguing against muslims would be like arguing against a pinball bumper.

 

[icehorse]

Mock all you want but there is a movement for rationalism and skepticism in the Western world which criticizes all religions strongly except Islam. It even defends Islam.

Seriously, I agree. And I agree that it's a HUGE problem.

 

[outhouse]

Arguing against muslims would be like arguing against a pinball bumper.

Its much worse then that.

Pinball is fun

 

[LuisDantas]

The constant debates and debuking of Christianity by the atheist movement has considerable weakened the faith, especially in the West. But in this religious vacuum, Islam has come to rise. Atheists for the most part don't tackle Islam intellectually because it goes against their liberal fears of spreading Islamophobia.

That is at most partially true. "Islamophobia", I'm half-convinced now, is largely a PR scam, and a very succesfull one at that.

There is some truth to the idea that the long-postponed questioning of Christianity has somewhat benefited Islamism. But that can hardly be blamed to atheists, who are anything but natural allies of Islamism.

Instead, the main reason why questioners of Christianity sometimes gravitate towards Islam is probably their similarity: those are after all the two main monotheistic Abrahamic proselitist faiths, and much of their visibility comes from their insistence to define themselves largely in contrast to each other, implying that there is something somehow natural or superior in Abrahamic monotheism over other faith stances.

To the extent that the secularist / atheistic questioning has emptied Christianity, it hasn't been in ways that naturally lend themselves to favor Islam. And to the extent that it has happened anyway, it is mainly as a result of those two faiths powerful tendency to gloss over any others.

In a way, a raise in popularity of Islam due to loss of trust in Christianity is largely a self-inflicted wound by Christianity itself.

Even on the debate forums here very few atheists will debate muslims, with the exception of a few, while many atheists will debate even topics like consciousness with vigor.

That is somewhat of an artifact of perception. We tend to avoid direct confrontations with cultural expectations just because, but there is no doubt that Islamic doctrine has no advantage over Christian when it comes to atheistic / secularist challenges. It is just a bit less understood.

This has led to pretty bad consequences:

1) There are thousands of jihadists from the West, many from good homes and good educations who have gone to fight in the Middle East and will bring back their fanaticism and PTSD

Are you truly saying that you blame atheistic questioning for that? I just don't follow.

2) There are billions of dollars poured into spreading Islam in the West from the Middle East oil states

I'm uncertain about the amount, but sure, it is hardly news or unexpected that Muslims want to proselitize. That is one of their main traits, and has always been.

3) Religious superiority reigns supreme in the Muslim world amongst the vast majority of Muslims who view the Quran as the literal and final word of God

Again, I'm just not clear on how or why that would be a consequence of atheists speaking.

4) Islamic population continues to rise in Europe while secular and Christian populations continue to fall

Is that so? I thought secularism was on the rise there, actually. And to the extent that Islam rises there, I can only expect that it will be closely watched, no less so than Christianity anyway.

While some people can argue that the Republicans have many Christian fundamentalists, their wars have been obviously about greed and resource acquisition and very little to do with the crusades.

True enough. On the other hand, they do have a lot to answer about when it comes to the spread of insanity, inanity and dishonesty. If they are any better than the hypothetical influential Muslims that you seem to fear, I am just not seeing it.

I believe Islam should be tackled with the same fervour that atheists use to tackle Christianity, Judaism and other faiths, that it is the literal word of God. That is an incredibly dangerous concept, more dangerous than what any other religion preaches.

I largely agree.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The constant debates and debuking of Christianity by the atheist movement has considerable weakened the faith, especially in the West. But in this religious vacuum, Islam has come to rise. Atheists for the most part don't tackle Islam intellectually because it goes against their liberal fears of spreading Islamophobia.

Actually, I find it is less to do with perceived Islamophobia than it is just a general lack of information or exposure to Islam and the fact that most atheism (or, at least, outspoken atheism) is centralized in the western world. I still see more atheists tackling Islam these days than I see tackling, say, Hinduism or Zeroastarianism, because we are generally more exposed to Islam than we are to those belief systems, but we are still far, far more exposed to Christian beliefs than we are to Muslim ones, so it just seems natural that Christianity tends to be the more talked about issue.

Even on the debate forums here very few atheists will debate muslims, with the exception of a few, while many atheists will debate even topics like consciousness with vigor.

This has led to pretty bad consequences:

1) There are thousands of jihadists from the West, many from good homes and good educations who have gone to fight in the Middle East and will bring back their fanaticism and PTSD
2) There are billions of dollars poured into spreading Islam in the West from the Middle East oil states
3) Religious superiority reigns supreme in the Muslim world amongst the vast majority of Muslims who view the Quran as the literal and final word of God
4) Islamic population continues to rise in Europe while secular and Christian populations continue to fall

While some people can argue that the Republicans have many Christian fundamentalists, their wars have been obviously about greed and resource acquisition and very little to do with the crusades.

I believe Islam should be tackled with the same fervour that atheists use to tackle Christianity, Judaism and other faiths, that it is the literal word of God. That is an incredibly dangerous concept, more dangerous than what any other religion preaches.

I absolutely agree, but I think there are many hurdles still to overcome in order for more widespread discussion about Muslim beliefs, such as generally increasing understanding of Islam's religious tenets. Most Muslim communities around where I live tend to be very insular, only ever reaching out to other faiths or non-religious individuals through educational programs, while many Christian churches and groups where I live actively promote debates and discussions, and are generally more willing to publicly preach their doctrine. This can be annoying, sure, but it also provides an important service in giving a platform to the voices that oppose them, as well as spreading information about their beliefs. While Muslim communities definitely put the effort in to educate people about their religion, it is usually as a reaction to genuine Islamaphobia and an actual lack of information regarding Islam - they're attempting to fill a void, rather than attempt active discussion or debate. At least, this is my experience.

 

[LuisDantas]

Mock all you want but there is a movement for rationalism and skepticism in the Western world which criticizes all religions strongly except Islam. It even defends Islam.

I suppose it may look like that under certain circunstances. We have a lot of ill habits and twisted expectations to shake off from centuries of Christian-oriented accomodation.

Personally, I am optimistic.

If anything, Muslims are much less succesfull at obfuscating their beliefs and goals when compared to Christians, even from themselves. Sure, they also make less of an attempt and have less skill at listening to rational arguments, but that only shows that we have no reason to fear them on those grounds. It is their political influence and lack of desire to listen to reason that we should fear.

The bottom line is that while there are certainly dangers in the rise of Islam's popularity, avoiding criticism of Christianity is no way of dealing with them.

 

[columbus]

I'm starting to sound like a broken record.
The biggest way, by far, that non Muslims support the rise of Islamic fundamentalism is buying petroleum products. Pretending that we can send a trillion dollars a year or something like the likes of Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Iran without funding terrorism is ridiculous.

Tom

 

[Sapiens]

The constant debates and debuking of Christianity by the atheist movement has considerable weakened the faith, especially in the West. But in this religious vacuum, Islam has come to rise. Atheists for the most part don't tackle Islam intellectually because it goes against their liberal fears of spreading Islamophobia.

Even on the debate forums here very few atheists will debate muslims, with the exception of a few, while many atheists will debate even topics like consciousness with vigor.

This has led to pretty bad consequences:

1) There are thousands of jihadists from the West, many from good homes and good educations who have gone to fight in the Middle East and will bring back their fanaticism and PTSD
2) There are billions of dollars poured into spreading Islam in the West from the Middle East oil states
3) Religious superiority reigns supreme in the Muslim world amongst the vast majority of Muslims who view the Quran as the literal and final word of God
4) Islamic population continues to rise in Europe while secular and Christian populations continue to fall

While some people can argue that the Republicans have many Christian fundamentalists, their wars have been obviously about greed and resource acquisition and very little to do with the crusades.

I believe Islam should be tackled with the same fervour that atheists use to tackle Christianity, Judaism and other faiths, that it is the literal word of God. That is an incredibly dangerous concept, more dangerous than what any other religion preaches.

Clearly you've not read Sam Harris.

 

[fantome profane]

We have a movement?

I did right around 9 am right after my second cup of coffee. And it was much more substantial than the OP.

 

[icehorse]

ImmortalFlame mentioned: "genuine Islamophobia" - can you cite examples? My guess is that any examples you find would more appropriately be labeled "bigotry". When I hear people claim "Islamophobia" what they usuallly mean is "stop criticizing Islam". So the term is intentionally misleading.

columbus - oil, agreed. I'd like to be able to buy "Wahhabi-free" gasoline, and I'd gladly pay a higher price for it.

 

[Koldo]

Mock all you want but there is a movement for rationalism and skepticism in the Western world which criticizes all religions strongly except Islam. It even defends Islam.

Wait, what?
I demand a source.

 

[MD]

Clearly you've not read Sam Harris.

Did you not seen how many progressives chewed him up after his little debate with Ben Affleck?

Granted they weren't atheists, but they were liberals. Perhaps I should replace atheists with liberals.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I question muslims all the time.

 

[MD]

In Six Minutes, an Atheist Tears Apart the Way Liberals Defend Muslim Atrocities ‘In the Name of Multiculturalism’ | Video | TheBlaze.com

"He also had stern words for Yale’s atheist organization, which was among the groups that complained when Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a woman who was born in Somalia, raised Muslim and suffered traditional genital mutilation, was brought to campus to share her critical-of-Islam views. “You’re atheists, you should be attacking religion, not siding with the people who hold women down and violate them, which apparently you will defend in the name of multiculturalism,” Maher seethed."