Has the atheist movement helped facilitate the rise of Islam?

[Sapiens]

Did you not seen how many progressives chewed him up after his little debate with Ben Affleck?

Granted they weren't atheists, but they were liberals. Perhaps I should replace atheists with liberals.

Perhaps you should ... even better, try to overcome your prejudgements and pigeonholing ... you might be surprised.

 

[MD]

Perhaps you should ... even better, try to overcome your prejudgements and pigeonholing ... you might be surprised.

I am not pigeonholing, if you can't accept that the atheist movement has a lot in common with the liberal movement, and allows radical Islam to run rampant, you are ignorant and living in a bubble.

I have been far more exposed to this than most people here.

 

[Sapiens]

I am not pigeonholing, if you can't accept that the atheist movement has a lot in common with the liberal movement, and allows radical Islam to run rampant, you are ignorant and living in a bubble.

That's an interesting suite of combined logical fallacies: commonalities that may or may not exist, that may or may not extend to opinions concerning radical Islamists, that permit radical Islamists to run rampant ... bit of a stretch.

I have been far more exposed to this than most people here.

You've far more exposure than most people here to atheists, liberals, radical Islamists, two out of three, all?

 

[MD]

That's an interesting suite of combined logical fallacies: commonalities that may or may not exist, that may or may not extend to opinions concerning radical Islamists, that permit radical Islamists to run rampant ... bit of a stretch.
You've far more exposure than most people here to atheists, liberals, radical Islamists, two out of three, all?

I've outlined why I think atheism has allowed Islam to rise in the West in the OP, it has created a vacuum.

Dawkins, Harris and Maher share the same sentiments. I've actually had a lot of exposure to all, I've lived in 6 countries and met all sorts of people.

Anyways I don't have to justify my life to you, but a question to ask is when will atheists start attacking Islam the same way they attack other religions. When there are 10,000 western jihadists? 100,000?

 

[Sapiens]

I've outlined why I think atheism has allowed Islam to rise in the West in the OP, it has created a vacuum.

Dawkins, Harris and Maher share the same sentiments. I've actually had a lot of exposure to all, I've lived in 6 countries and met all sorts of people.

Anyways I don't have to justify my life to you, but a question to ask is when will atheists start attacking Islam the same way they attack other religions. When there are 10,000 western jihadists? 100,000?

No, you don't have to justify your life to me, but since your posting your opinions you have to justify them, or to walk away. I've lived in many more than 6 countries (I don't know why that matters) and I spent a bit of time in Vietnam during the Southeast Asia Friendship Games of the early 1970s. One of the clear lessons that I learned was that tools of policy often have rather narrow views ... they have to to do their job, but they should, only rarely, be taken seriously by the makers of policy. John Paul Vann, while not perfect, was usually right.

I, for one, am an equal opportunity critic of all religions.

 

[Aquitaine]

Atheists for the most part don't tackle Islam intellectually because it goes against their liberal fears of spreading Islamophobia.

I stopped reading at this point.

Also, Atheist (at least here) tend to debate Theists, not just Christians - that includes Muslims.

 

[Iti oj]

We have a movement?
It doesn't seem so to me.
Sure, there are individual atheists who are prominent because
what they say about religion, but we don't act in concert.

There are plenty of atheist groups who do things in a cohesive way.

 

[Aquitaine]

If I open up the Active Topics window, amongst other threads I get "Was Islam spread by the sword?", "muslims least educated in the world?" and "why do muslims hate democracy?".

Indeed, there is a PC-Liberal-Islamophobia conspiracy taking place on RF.

 

[outhouse]

If I open up the Active Topics window, amongst other threads I get "Was Islam spread by the sword?", "muslims least educated in the world?" and "why do muslims hate democracy?".

Indeed, there is a PC-Liberal-Islamophobia conspiracy taking place on RF.

For the last 3 years I have ignored the whole show, Im truly sorry I opened the can of worms.

I have never seen a group of people as a whole more argumentative over the most simple reasonable equations.

YEC I have had more rational debates with.


I honestly had no idea it was that bad when reason and logic come into play, its like they are all trained to disagree on what 2 + 2 is, and im tired of the answer always being "what ever the koran say it is" Cause if the koran does not say 4 heaven help you, no logic will ever get through.

 

[Revoltingest]

I did right around 9 am right after my second cup of
coffee. And it was much more substantial than the OP.

Did it feel like you were facilitating the rise of Islam?

 

[Revoltingest]

There are plenty of atheist groups who do things in a cohesive way.

Well! They never invited me!

 

[Iti oj]

Well! They never invited me!

Well you are revolting.

 

[LuisDantas]

I've outlined why I think atheism has allowed Islam to rise in the West in the OP, it has created a vacuum.

Dawkins, Harris and Maher share the same sentiments. I've actually had a lot of exposure to all, I've lived in 6 countries and met all sorts of people.

Anyways I don't have to justify my life to you, but a question to ask is when will atheists start attacking Islam the same way they attack other religions. When there are 10,000 western jihadists? 100,000?

If there are that few, then Islam is simply not as urgent a target of criticism as Christianity.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

The constant debates and debuking of Christianity by the atheist movement has considerable weakened the faith, especially in the West. But in this religious vacuum, Islam has come to rise. Atheists for the most part don't tackle Islam intellectually because it goes against their liberal fears of spreading Islamophobia.

Even on the debate forums here very few atheists will debate muslims, with the exception of a few, while many atheists will debate even topics like consciousness with vigor.

This has led to pretty bad consequences:

1) There are thousands of jihadists from the West, many from good homes and good educations who have gone to fight in the Middle East and will bring back their fanaticism and PTSD
2) There are billions of dollars poured into spreading Islam in the West from the Middle East oil states
3) Religious superiority reigns supreme in the Muslim world amongst the vast majority of Muslims who view the Quran as the literal and final word of God
4) Islamic population continues to rise in Europe while secular and Christian populations continue to fall

While some people can argue that the Republicans have many Christian fundamentalists, their wars have been obviously about greed and resource acquisition and very little to do with the crusades.

I believe Islam should be tackled with the same fervour that atheists use to tackle Christianity, Judaism and other faiths, that it is the literal word of God. That is an incredibly dangerous concept, more dangerous than what any other religion preaches.

Because there are greater threats to americans than ISIS. The tea parter rhetoric that atheists are somehow to blame for the rise of islam because they keep picking on christians and other 'easy' targets is laughable. Nothing more than an poor attempt to redirect focus on their own inability to provide a rational defense for their own positions.

More people were beheaded in Mexico last year than in the entire middle east. More AMERICAN women were denied rights by christians than by muslims. More AMERICAN homesexuals were denied rights by christians than by muslims. More AMERICAN muslims were denied rights by christians than by other muslims. More AMERICAN atheists were denied rights by christians than by muslims.

Amazing how these idiots would like us to focus on the arch-enemy of christianity half-way around the world. "oh muslims are the problem, atheist should focus on them" Yea and in the meantime don't mind if they keep denying rights. If everything works out they'll be able to have a god-president in complete power here in america while atheists are giving them a pass to focus on not giving islam a pass.

All that aside, I have more than enough time and energy to pound away on islam without giving a single pass to christianity or any other fantasy paradigm.

You have presented nothing more than conjecture, please point to a single specific example where an atheist on this forum has given islam a pass?

 

[icehorse]

If there are that few, then Islam is simply not as urgent a target of criticism as Christianity.

- well jihadists are the most extreme.
- then there are millions of Islamists
- then there are hundreds of millions of conservative Muslims who hold sharia values like punishing apostasy, persecuting Jews and gays, viewing women as second class citizens, and punishing blasphemy.

Again this poll is useful:

The World

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Mock all you want but there is a movement for rationalism and skepticism in the Western world which criticizes all religions strongly except Islam. It even defends Islam.

Atheism doesn't criticize Islam? Surely you have heard of Richard Dawkins. Bill Maher? George Carlin?

 

[icehorse]

Because there are greater threats to americans than ISIS. The tea parter rhetoric that atheists are somehow to blame for the rise of islam because they keep picking on christians and other 'easy' targets is laughable. Nothing more than an poor attempt to redirect focus on their own inability to provide a rational defense for their own positions.

More people were beheaded in Mexico last year than in the entire middle east. More AMERICAN women were denied rights by christians than by muslims. More AMERICAN homesexuals were denied rights by christians than by muslims. More AMERICAN muslims were denied rights by christians than by other muslims. More AMERICAN atheists were denied rights by christians than by muslims.

Amazing how these idiots would like us to focus on the arch-enemy of christianity half-way around the world. "oh muslims are the problem, atheist should focus on them" Yea and in the meantime don't mind if they keep denying rights. If everything works out they'll be able to have a god-president in complete power here in america while atheists are giving them a pass to focus on not giving islam a pass.

All that aside, I have more than enough time and energy to pound away on islam without giving a single pass to christianity or any other fantasy paradigm.

You have presented nothing more than conjecture, please point to a single specific example where an atheist on this forum has given islam a pass?

links?

 

[outhouse]

Atheism doesn't criticize Islam? Surely you have heard of Richard Dawkins. Bill Maher? George Carlin?

Most atheist I know, which is not enough!


Are equal opportunity recognizers of fanaticism and fundamentalism.



I do know some that have their head up their rear though. Conspiracy nutters attacks theist and non theist a like :angel2:

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Its easier to attack that which is better understood. Whilst Western atheists tend to be well educated about Christianity, I suspect overall they are less well educated about Islam.

Secondly, atheists commonly attack aspects of theism. Whilst I think it human nature for Christians to see it as an attack on Christianity, that's often not the case. But an atheist attacks an aspect of belief, a Christian defends it, and you have the appearance of Chrituan versus atheist.

Muslims seem far less likely to commonly engage in the sort of discussions atheists often raise about theism.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

ImmortalFlame mentioned: "genuine Islamophobia" - can you cite examples? My guess is that any examples you find would more appropriately be labeled "bigotry". When I hear people claim "Islamophobia" what they usuallly mean is "stop criticizing Islam". So the term is intentionally misleading.

I use it to refer to a very specific kind of bigotry, namely the "all Muslims are terrorists and/or ought to be treated like terrorists" mentality created by a general lack of understanding of Muslim tenets (and I do mean that literally, not like "if you find Islamic teachings or doctrines immoral it must mean you think they're all terrorists" - I literally do mean "you think all Muslims are terrorists"). It could probably be sufficient to simply call it "bigotry", but for me Islamophobia is a perfectly valid term to use in the context of widespread fear of Islam in the west in the post-9/11 environment. This is a genuine problem, and something I have encountered quite a lot in the last few years.