Hate speech in the Quran and Bible. Should it be tolerated/accepted?

[Spiderman]

First, hyou should know that I don't personally believe in any sort of eternal hell, especially not to punish those who merely make mistakes of what they believe.

However, the whole purpose of the heaven/hell afterlife thing, is to create a way for justice to be served when the world we live in is profoundly unjust -- the wicked prosper and the good suffer. The idea is that someday, people will be held accountable for their wrongs.

Now, I find the idea of an eternal unending hell to be a bit much. What possible sin would deserve such a punishment? But I would not call such a belief hateful. I'm sorry, I just can't go along with you on this one.

That is just not true. First of all, I don't see Jews and Christians defending any sort of oppression using their Bible. There are extremist Muslim sects, very evil ones, the Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc., but these are not typical of Islam. You are the one making the sweeping generalization and being bigotted here. Just sit for a while -- don't ansewr my post yet. Think for a few minutes on all the good things that the Abrahamic faiths do, from feeding the poor to building hospitals. Think about how the abolitionist movement was drivien by the Christian religion. Think about people like Martin Luther King Jr got his inspiration for the civil rights movement from his Chrsitian faith. You need to see both sides of this.

How am I being bigoted? I never made a sweeping generalization at all.

I said hundreds of millions of people are robbed of liberties. Yes, plenty countries have blasphemy laws where it is illegal to speak against the Prophet Muhammad or say the Qur'an is inerrant. People can spend 10 years of their lives in prison or worse in some countries just for starting a blog saying "our country would be better off if it was more secular".

Look at Saudi-Arabia, where non-Muslim houses of worship are illegal. How is that not robbing the citizens of basic liberties and total and complete bigotry?

Yes, I agree that Abrahamic faiths have done a lot of good in the hearts of kind, just, charitable people, who choose not to follow and adhere to the hatred within the text.

Sure, there is a lot of love and beauty in the Bible and Quran, but there is absolutely a lot of hate.

In the next post I'll share some verses.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

He is correct. If there had been no Christianity, there would have been no end to slavery. Give credit where credit is due.

I'd very much like to see a historical argument that supports that.

One must at least admit that if "Christianity" could make -- and did make -- sound, biblicly supported arguments for both sides, then it cannot have been Christianity alone that led to the end of slavery. Something else must have been going on, no?

Like the values of Humanism, perhaps?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How am I being bigoted? I never made a sweeping generalization at all.

YOu made the following very hateful and very sweeping generalization:

Bottom line is, Hundreds of millions of people are oppressed and robbed of basic liberties in our current world thanks to Abrahamic texts and the attitude is one of bigotry in the Quran and Bible.

YOu said this in the context of an entire post dedicated to saying the Bible is hateful. You didn't say anything in your post about Islam. But now you want to change the goalposts. Sorry, cheating like that is not allowed.

 

[Spiderman]

@IndigoChild5559

Quran 5:33
"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)

How does a verse like that not reak of hatred? I don't care if someone is fighting a war on the wrong side. Many people are young and stupid, or they are drafted, or they are fighting to defend their homeland , or their Jewish, Christian, or Polytheist beliefs that they cherish, from Islamic aggression.

What good does it accomplish to crucify them, cut off hands and feet, banish them, shame them, disgrace them in this world, and then torture them forever?? It does no good but please a cruel sadist. If the message in the Qur'an is that God is a cruel sadist, and the message in the Bible is that God is jealous, wrathful, and a bigot (which the Biblical God undeniably is), that absolutely has the potential to stir up hateful, cruel, sadistic, bigots among the followers of such a God and text. Ever studied the Inquisitions?

Quran 22:19
These are two opponents who have disputed about their Lord. As for those who disbelieve, garments from fire shall be tailored for them, and boiling water shall be poured from over their heads

Again, it is psychopathic and inhumane to do that to anyone. Wicked people are often that way from being born with an inability to feel empathy, or they have been abused, neglected, unloved, despised, unwanted, and without role models. They often cannot help themselves. To torture them is simply sick, disgusting, wrong, and yes, when it is extreme torture that doesn't end, to will that for someone is pure epitome of cruelty. Epitome of cruelty towards groups of human beings (like unbelievers or Polytheists) in my book = hatred.

Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Yes, that is absolutely hatred to cast someone into a furnace of fire.

Revelation 20:10 ESV / 75 helpful votes
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I don't care if it's the Devil or anyone, they should be comfortably put out of their misery or anesthetized. The Devil is probably full of jealous and hate, and that is a torture in it of itself. He doesn't deserve to suffer for ever. Maybe he is actually a nice guy who opposes God because God is a jerk.

Revelation 20:15 ESV / 54 helpful votes
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

It implies they are thrown into the lake of fire. It means they are forced to go there and God wills it!

Revelation 14:11 ESV / 51 helpful votes
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Many of the people who worship the beast and his image are probably innocent people who did it out of fear so they could not suffer worse consequences for not doing it. They don't deserve eternal torture.

It's the most DEPRESSING , DISGUSTING, DARK, HATEFUL, BIGOTED, UGLY, MISERABLE, CRUEL message I have ever seen, and hundreds of millions of people base this as the center of their lives, what they live by.

Granted, most Christians use their faith to accomplish good, and it seems the same for Jews. Occasionally Islam creates a peaceful, meek, humble, and charitable Muslim too, which is odd, because it's founder was extremely violent and intolerant!

But still, I have seen personally the damage the Bible has done to divide and anger, agitate, scare, confuse, and turn people against each other, and create judgmental bigoted people.

 

[Spiderman]

YOu made the following very hateful and very sweeping generalization:
YOu said this in the context of an entire post dedicated to saying the Bible is hateful. You didn't say anything in your post about Islam. But now you want to change the goalposts. Sorry, cheating like that is not allowed.

I said "thanks to Abrahamic Texts"

That includes Islam!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'd very much like to see a historical argument that supports that.

One must at least admit that if "Christianity" could make -- and did make -- sound, biblicly supported arguments for both sides, then it cannot have been Christianity alone that led to the end of slavery. Something else must have been going on, no?

Like the values of Humanism, perhaps?

Historians believe ideas set forth during the religious movement known as the Second Great Awakening inspired abolitionists to rise up against slavery. This Protestant revival encouraged the concept of adopting renewed morals, which centered around the idea that all men are created equal in the eyes of God
Abolitionist Movement

 

[Spiderman]

I said "thanks to Abrahamic Texts"

That includes Islam!

Islam is an Abrahamic Faith.

That was what I was talking about when I said "Abrahamic Text".

Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are Abrahamic Religions. So, that was what I meant by "Abrahamic Text".

I'm sorry if you interpreted my message wrong or if I worded it in a confusing manner.

 

[Spiderman]

Granted,
I'm guessing most people who call themselves Christian , Muslim, or Jew, are not bigots.

But the books still reak of bigotry. Extremely so and I can prove it!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I said "thanks to Abrahamic Texts"

That includes Islam!

You said Abrahamic texts, but THEN when I asked for you to give an example, you created an ENTIRE LONG POST filled with things you didn't like about the Bible. You did not mention a single example from the Quran. THAT is what I'm pointing out. So don't think you can suddenly shift the goalposts and think that you have answered my objection.

 

[Spiderman]

You said Abrahamic texts, but THEN when I asked for you to give an example, you created an ENTIRE LONG POST filled with things you didn't like about the Bible. You did not mention a single example from the Quran. THAT is what I'm pointing out. So don't think you can suddenly shift the goalposts and think that you have answered my objection.

I have spoken a lot about Islam in this thread. Obviously when I say "Abrahamic Texts" , it includes the Qur'an. Duh!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Granted,
I'm guessing most people who call themselves Christian , Muslim, or Jew, are not bigots.

But the books still reak of bigotry. Extremely so and I can prove it!

Again, you went right for the Bible, not the Quran, when you answered my questions. And with the exception of the commands for Israel to commit genocide, you basically bombed.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I have spoken a lot about Islam in this thread. Obviously when I say "Abrahamic Texts" , it includes the Qur'an. Duh!

My objection was to your post where you singled out the Bible, and was unable to make your case.

 

[Spiderman]

You said Abrahamic texts, but THEN when I asked for you to give an example, you created an ENTIRE LONG POST filled with things you didn't like about the Bible. You did not mention a single example from the Quran. THAT is what I'm pointing out. So don't think you can suddenly shift the goalposts and think that you have answered my objection.

I answered your question as of post #43 correct?

 

[DNB]

Christianity , like Islam, are very bigoted Religions that display/portray the epitome of hatred for infidels/heretics/pagans/unbelievers etc. (At least , total hatred for them if they die in that state without converting). You don't torture people forever and ever, unless you severely hate them.

It's why I left Christianity. I saw the bigotry and hate constantly. Just go to a Christian website and tell them you pray to the "Queens of Heaven", and see what some of the responses are, about the Kami I cherish being Demons.

Look at all the Biblical verses where God justifies complete genocide against people based on ethnicity or different Religious beliefs.

It's just wrong and goes against my conscience!

Threatening to torture people for ever, most of the world even, is worse than any form of hate speech, and it is very intrinsic to the nature and essence of Christianity.

To what extent should good people who don't like hatred and bigotry, take a stand against the hate-speech and bigotry in the Bible and Quran?

A lot of people are unaware of it, until it is brought to their attention. Some of the gruesome tortures amputations of limbs, crucifixion, and mutilations in the Quran and burning of infidels are so bad, it fills me with darkness to read them.

If you want the quotes and verses, I can provide them, or you can Google it.

I consider Muhammad and his daughter Fatima , peace be upon them, to be my close friends, but I can't object more to some of what is attributed to the Prophet, and his violent aggressive lifestyle, where he personally decapitated people and destroyed everything sacred to Polytheists, repeatedly condemning them to eternal torture in Quranic verses, destroying their shrines that are sacred to them, robbing people of basic liberties, and beyond.

Saudi Arabia, the Capitol of Islam, is run by an extremely bigoted regime where you won't find a single synagogue, Church, or Polytheist temple. It's forbidden and outlawed.

Jewish (as well as Christian and other non-Muslim) religious services are prohibited from being held in Saudi Arabia. That is total tyranny and bigotry!

I believe the Prophet was an orphan with a tough life who had nobody, and did indeed love God, and I love him, I just disagree with some of his behaviors.

I have met many orphans growing up and as an adult in jails, institutions, and ghettos, and they can be very violent angry people compared to those who had parents who nurtured, cared for, and gave them a healthy environment , with good role models.

But should we really be tolerant of pure hatred, bigotry, and hate-speech in the Bible and Quranic text??

The only thing necessary for hatred and bigotry to triumph in our world is for good people to remain silent, passive , and do nothing. Is that right or wrong?

In the poll, please choose the answer that you lean most towards.

Oh, is that you again spewing out your hypocritical anti-hate speech, with nothing but vitriol towards the Bible?
Why have you not ever acknowledged the countless acts of mercy, kindness, forgiveness, compassion, tolerance and patience, love and salvation, exuded by God throughout the entire Bible, despite man's incessant defiance and contempt towards Him? Name me one character or group in the Bible that God was cruel towards, that were guiltless - who did not sacrifice their children in the fire, who did not practice the most shameful and disgusting acts of lust and hedonism, who did not murder and rape, or treat their neighbour with cruelty and contempt?
It is you who is the only troublemaker around here, constantly causing dissention and hatred, by perpetually and ignorantly attempting to denigrate the Bible.

 

[Spiderman]

My objection was to your post where you singled out the Bible, and was unable to make your case.

I made my case.

Genocide and willing that people be tortured forever is extremely hateful. If you don't think so, then you and I will have to agree to disagree. I didn't bomb or fail to make my case.

Torturing someone to death over a period of a month is extremely cruel and sadistic and in my opinion hateful.

Now imagine that for ever and ever. It's total hatred. If you don't see that or how the Bible supports that belief, you and I will have to simply agree to disagree, because I can't reason with you!

Or to put it kinder. I disagree with your opinion. I'm sorry, I simply cannot fathom or comprehend how you don't see that degree of bigotry or hatred I have already pointed out in both the Bible and the Qur'an.

 

[Spiderman]

Oh, is that you again spewing out your hypocritical anti-hate speech, with nothing but vitriol towards the Bible?
Why have you not ever acknowledged the countless acts of mercy, kindness, forgiveness, compassion, tolerance and patience, love and salvation, exuded by God throughout the entire Bible, despite man's incessant defiance and contempt towards Him? Name me one character or group in the Bible that God was cruel towards, that were guiltless - who did not sacrifice their children in the fire, who did not practice the most shameful and disgusting acts of lust and hedonism, who did not murder and rape, or treat their neighbour with cruelty and contempt?
It is you who is the only troublemaker around here, constantly causing dissention and hatred, by perpetually and ignorantly attempting to denigrate the Bible.

I've pointed out many times that I'm all for Christians loving people and the kindness of people like Mother Teresa of Calcutta, Saint Francis of Assissi, charity groups etc.

But pure hatred and bigotry is contained in the Bible. It would be cowardice of me to bend the knee to a God who tortures people forever and tramples upon people's basic liberties and orders people to be executed for crimes as stupid as picking up sticks on sabbath! I have every reason to be angry at such a God. The people who are perhaps in need of charity, are the ones who go along with God's plans of torturing people forever and letting a wicked Antichrist deceive everyone, and chronically punishing the world with his jealousy and wrath!

If I saw a child getting raped and tortured to death, and I were an omnipotent God I would help.

Maybe if I can talk some basic charity with God, and enough people point out his cruelty, he will start actually being a Father!

 

[Aštra’el]

I'm saying take a stand against hatred and bigotry contained in the books.

That is not my stand to take. I embrace many sides of human nature, including hatred at times. It is a very useful aspect of our humanity.

 

[Spiderman]

Oh, is that you again spewing out your hypocritical anti-hate speech, with nothing but vitriol towards the Bible?
Why have you not ever acknowledged the countless acts of mercy, kindness, forgiveness, compassion, tolerance and patience, love and salvation, exuded by God throughout the entire Bible, despite man's incessant defiance and contempt towards Him? Name me one character or group in the Bible that God was cruel towards, that were guiltless - who did not sacrifice their children in the fire, who did not practice the most shameful and disgusting acts of lust and hedonism, who did not murder and rape, or treat their neighbour with cruelty and contempt?
It is you who is the only troublemaker around here, constantly causing dissention and hatred, by perpetually and ignorantly attempting to denigrate the Bible.

Did I make a personal attack against you? Do you see me insulting anyone like you just did? I would never report anyone, as I believe you should be allowed to insult me all you want.

Have you seen me make a personal attack against anyone?

I love you and I respect your Religious views insofar as they are not bigoted and hateful. I think Jesus taught many wonderful things, and I accept Jesus as my savior whose blood atoned for my sins, and whose death paid my debt, and I believe in the resurrection. I'm just Shinto. I believe Jesus to be Kami, and I don't live by any text that I call "Inerrant" because it divides my heart and distracts me from loving Kami , and loving others.

Kami means (God/Spirit/Heavenly being/Angel). I don't believe in Doctrines or place my faith in texts that people divide and argue over, texts that contradict themselves and contain some of the worse hate I have ever seen or heard of.

I will reject all hatred and bigotry!

I guess, there is a time where it is noble to be intolerant and despise somethin. I am intolerant of hate and bigotry! But I try not to hate it either.

 

[DNB]

I've pointed out many times that I'm all for Christians loving people and the kindness of people like Mother Teresa of Calcutta, Saint Francis of Assissi, charity groups etc.

But pure hatred and bigotry is contained in the Bible. It would be cowardice of me to bend the knee to a God who tortures people forever and tramples upon people's basic liberties and orders people to be executed for crimes as stupid as picking up sticks on sabbath! I have every reason to be angry at such a God. The people who are perhaps in need of charity, are the ones who go along with God's plans of torturing people forever and letting a wicked Antichrist deceive everyone, and chronically punishing the world with his jealousy and wrath!

If I saw a child getting raped and tortured to death, and I were an omnipotent God I would help.

Maybe if I can talk some basic charity with God, and enough people point out his cruelty, he will start actually being a Father!

**mod edit** I asked you to recognize God's acts of love and mercy, and not that of Mother Theresa's or any other altruist, which has absolutely nothing to do with what my contention is towards your abusive posts.

 

[DNB]

Did I make a personal attack against you? Do you see me insulting anyone like you just did? I would never report anyone, as I believe you should be allowed to insult me all you want.

Have you seen me make a personal attack against anyone?

I love you and I respect your Religious views insofar as they are not bigoted and hateful. I think Jesus taught many wonderful things, and I accept Jesus as my savior whose blood atoned for my sins, and whose death paid my debt, and I believe in the resurrection. I'm just Shinto. I believe Jesus to be Kami, and I don't live by any text that I call "Inerrant" because it divides my heart and distracts me from loving Kami , and loving others.

Kami means (God/Spirit/Heavenly being/Angel). I don't believe in Doctrines or place my faith in texts that people divide and argue over, texts that contradict themselves and contain some of the worse hate I have ever seen or heard of.

I will reject all hatred and bigotry!

I guess, there is a time where it is noble to be intolerant and despise somethin. I am intolerant of hate and bigotry! But I try not to hate it either.

The only reason that Jesus was able to absolve you of your sins, is for the sole reason that he loved God, his Father, with all his heart, mind and soul. Meaning, in order to be the perfect sacrifice, he had to obey the golden rule, not only the 613 precepts of the Levitical Law. So how is it that you love Jesus, but hate his Father of whom he loved more than himself, and died for?
As an aside, syncretizing Jesus with Kami is just heresy!

 

[Aštra’el]

Name me one character or group in the Bible that God was cruel towards, that were guiltless - who did not sacrifice their children in the fire, who did not practice the most shameful and disgusting acts of lust and hedonism, who did not murder and rape, or treat their neighbour with cruelty and contempt?

I mean... some here would inevitably list Job as an example. Though I do not see this as cruelty, some do.

And I agree that many people ignore or miss out on the most awesome aspects of God when they choose to instead obsess over the things which offend them.