Have people forgotten about 9/11?

[kai]

Ever wondered why they chose the US instead of, say, Switzerland? Can you think of any reason the middle east might be a fertile ground for anti-American sentiment? (Like, say, instead of anti-Irish sentiment? Or anti-Belgian sentiment?)
no i know why, and to be neutral there must be something to be neutral about and of course you can only be neutral if someone guarantees your neutrality
Here's a clue

And an educational video

They don't want to take over your world kai - they want YOU to keep your mitts off THEIR world. Non-violent Western countries grasp this basic concept. That is how they prevent themselves from being attacked at home by guerrilla fighters from foreign lands.

neutral countries (your non violent ones) only exist because their countries such as the US and Britain fought to allow them neutrality.


and maybe you can grasp this concept,
from: Omar Bakri Muhammad

"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity



or you can put your head back in the sand untill they come , and then blame everybody else except the guys who want to kil you.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Sorry Dopp.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Mestemia,

Out of curiosity, what evidence, outside of US Government reports, do you have that he did?

Abu Nidal,

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/08/21/iraq.nidal/

What should be mentioned is that while Saddam likely had Nidal killed, Iraq harbored his terrorist group, The Revolutionary Council group.

Abu Abbas,

CNN.com - U.S. captures mastermind of Achille Lauro hijacking - Apr. 16, 2003

Abdul Rahman Yasin,

60 Minutes: The Man Who Got Away, Says '93 WTC Bombers Originally Targeted Jewish Neighborhoods - CBS News

AND what does this have to do with 9/11?

I was stating that I believe the Islamofascist movement is bigger than just UBL and al Qeada. This is hardly controversial considering all of the other Islamofascist groups there are. I also believe that the lifeblood of the Islamofascist is nation-state support of terrorist groups. Nation-states allow Islamofascists groups time to plan, gather resources and recruit members. Thus, the Iraq war would make sense in that it would reduce the ability of Islamofascists to attack anybody because Iraq would no longer be a nation-state that sponsors terrorism.

Then Alceste said that there is no evidence that Iraq ever supported terrorism. Thus, all the evdience about Iraq supporting terrorism.

Hope all that makes sense. .AOLWebSuite .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink { height: 1px; width: 1px; overflow: hidden; ** .AOLWebSuite a {color:blue; text-decoration: underline; cursor: pointer**

 

[Alceste]

Joe, is "Islamofascist" your catch-all name for all militant Islamic groups now, regardless of their aims? Can you clarify for me that you perceive, for example, the Taliban and Hamas as a part of a larger single entity with designs on world domination?

 

[lilithu]

Joe, is "Islamofascist" your catch-all name for all militant Islamic groups now, regardless of their aims? Can you clarify for me that you perceive, for example, the Taliban and Hamas as a part of a larger single entity with designs on world domination?

Pretty much the reason why I stopped arguing with him in this thread is so as to not give him the excuse to continue repeating that hateful word over and over again.

 

[Alceste]

neutral countries (your non violent ones) only exist because their countries such as the US and Britain fought to allow them neutrality.


and maybe you can grasp this concept,
from: Omar Bakri Muhammad

"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity

As for your first point, it's nonsense. War is not the default setting of humanity. It takes intense reprogramming and incessant propaganda to stir up a large population to go murder their neighbours. Neutral countries exist because sane people are appalled by warfare, and every once in a while a country will have sane people at the helm, whether or not war is erupting all around them.

As to your second point, how is that kind of Islamic nonsense different from this kind of Christian nonsense?

"It does not look good for Leni. WBC will picket his memorial service, using the occasion to warn the living that the sodomite lifestyle guarantees Hell. That the Kansas City Star *** Rag writing tributes, and his fellow perverts dancing and singing in his honor, will not buy one drop of water to cool Leni's tongue where he likely now is. And except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Lk. 13:3" - Westboro Baptist Church press release, September 28, 1996, on the death of UMKC dancer Leni Wylliams.

In fact the Christofascists have a lot more blood on their hands when you tally it up.

 

[Alceste]

Pretty much the reason why I stopped arguing with him in this thread is so as to not give him the excuse to continue repeating that hateful word over and over again.

I know how you feel. It's eerily reminiscent of the "Jewish world domination" theories that were circulating during the rise of the Nazis.

Speaking of the Nazis, here's an insightful quote from Hermann Goering that succinctly explains the art of reprogramming a population for war. It also suggests the neocons have really done their homework.

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

 

[gnomon]

Hi Mestemia,



Abu Nidal,

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/08/21/iraq.nidal/

What should be mentioned is that while Saddam likely had Nidal killed, Iraq harbored his terrorist group, The Revolutionary Council group.

Abu Abbas,

CNN.com - U.S. captures mastermind of Achille Lauro hijacking - Apr. 16, 2003

Abdul Rahman Yasin,

60 Minutes: The Man Who Got Away, Says '93 WTC Bombers Originally Targeted Jewish Neighborhoods - CBS News




I was stating that I believe the Islamofascist movement is bigger than just UBL and al Qeada. This is hardly controversial considering all of the other Islamofascist groups there are. I also believe that the lifeblood of the Islamofascist is nation-state support of terrorist groups. Nation-states allow Islamofascists groups time to plan, gather resources and recruit members. Thus, the Iraq war would make sense in that it would reduce the ability of Islamofascists to attack anybody because Iraq would no longer be a nation-state that sponsors terrorism.

Then Alceste said that there is no evidence that Iraq ever supported terrorism. Thus, all the evdience about Iraq supporting terrorism.

Hope all that makes sense. .AOLWebSuite .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink { height: 1px; width: 1px; overflow: hidden; ** .AOLWebSuite a {color:blue; text-decoration: underline; cursor: pointer**

This provides zero evidence in regards to the 9/11 attacks and Iraq harboring terrorists who conducted, would conduct or somehow engaged in the attacks upon U.S. soil.

It has been well established that those individuals who did participate in the 9/11 attacks had nothing to do with Iraq. This loose association theory could apply equally as well to those who conducted the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma and tie the U.S. as harboring terrorists to the 9/11 attacks. In other words, its absurd.

What we have here is a failure of logic. It is also a call to engage the U.S. itself into a nation state to engage in terrorism. I refuse to be a part of or loan support to such nation state or ethnocentric imbecility.

Let's also look at the facts that the instability in Iraq has garnered more support for any anti-U.S. terrorist organizations.

:sleep:

I do not have much respect for opinions about U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East that has no regard for the past involvement in regards to the shah in Iran and the notion, quite validated, of blowback. It is a foreign policy introduced in force by the Wilson administration long ago and still in effect today.

Does anyone have any solid evidence linking Iraq to the attacks upon the U.S.?

 

[kai]

As for your first point, it's nonsense. War is not the default setting of humanity. It takes intense reprogramming and incessant propaganda to stir up a large population to go murder their neighbours. Neutral countries exist because sane people are appalled by warfare, and every once in a while a country will have sane people at the helm, whether or not war is erupting all around them.

its far from nonsense declaring your nuetral doesnt stop someone invading you, you have to be recognised as nuetral by both sides like switzerland in WW2

As to your second point, how is that kind of Islamic nonsense different from this kind of Christian nonsense?Its not why do you ask?

In fact the Christofascists have a lot more blood on their hands when you tally it up.
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we are straying from 911

 

[kai]

Joe, is "Islamofascist" your catch-all name for all militant Islamic groups now, regardless of their aims? Can you clarify for me that you perceive, for example, the Taliban and Hamas as a part of a larger single entity with designs on world domination?

the fact that you dont like what joe calls these thugs is beside the point, at least he realises they indeed have similar aims and thats to kill americans given half the chance

This is Islam, that was ahead of its time with regards to human rights in the treatment of prisoners, but our nation was tested by the cancerous lump, that is the Jews, in the heart of the Arab nation… Be certain that America is on its way to utter destruction, America is wallowing [in blood] today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine… Make us victorious over the community of infidels… Allah, take the Jews and their allies, Allah, take the Americans and their allies… Allah, annihilate them completely and do not leave anyone of them."
Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Bahar, acting Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, April 20, 2007; as reported by Palestinian Media Watch, April 23, 2007)


Faqir Mohammed, a cleric and deputy leader of Pakistan's Taliban movement, vowed revenge after attending a funeral for seven men who were said to have been killed.
"America martyred our people, and the blood of our brothers will not go to waste," Mohammed said. "God willing, we will avenge it by targeting America."

 

[kai]

I know how you feel. It's eerily reminiscent of the "Jewish world domination" theories that were circulating during the rise of the Nazis.

Speaking of the Nazis, here's an insightful quote from Hermann Goering that succinctly explains the art of reprogramming a population for war. It also suggests the neocons have really done their homework.

if they did their homework they wouldnt follow any advice from Herman Goering

 

[Jeremy Mason]

if they did their homework they wouldnt follow any advice from Herman Goering

:no: they didn't.

 

[Alceste]

So, Kai, Jeremy, nothing in Goering's statement reminds you in the least of what is going on in your country? Tell them they are being attacked? Criticise the pacifists for their lack of patritism and putting the country in danger? No bells ringing?

If the neocons haven't been boning up on Nazi political theory, they do a mighty fine job of replicating it by pure coincidence.

 

[Alceste]

we are straying from 911

Thank god for that. It's about time Americans stopped going on and on about it if it justifies their horrific slaughter, torture and oppression of foreign civilians. FYI, the continuous, pointless harping on and on about the attack is exactly what the PNAC predicted in their fascist pre-WTC-attack document "Rebuilding America's defences". It acknowledged that Americans wouldn't tolerate violent, US military world domination unless they were provided with "another Pearl harbour".

 

[kai]

So, Kai, Jeremy, nothing in Goering's statement reminds you in the least of what is going on in your country? Tell them they are being attacked? Criticise the pacifists for their lack of patritism and putting the country in danger? No bells ringing?

If the neocons haven't been boning up on Nazi political theory, they do a mighty fine job of replicating it by pure coincidence.

no bells ring except, we have actually been attacked and thwarted many more attempts so no, i dont see the comparison

 

[Alceste]

no bells ring except, we have actually been attacked and thwarted many more attempts so no, i dont see the comparison

In case you have forgotten, the Nazis also believed they had been attacked and were thwarting further attempts, not to mention a plot by the Jews to take over the world.

 

[Valjean]

no bells ring except, we have actually been attacked and thwarted many more attempts so no, i dont see the comparison

But you ignore the cause of the attacks! If we hadn't given them cause, we wouldn't have been attacked.

You have to understand. The US wants to take over and control the world. That is the Prime Directive behind US foreign policy.
Don't take my word for it. Google PNAC and see for yourself. Take special note of the authors.
We are the aggressors. We are the New Rome.

It is only natural that the rest of the world will either resist us or form craven alliances.

 

[kai]

In case you have forgotten, the Nazis also believed they had been attacked and were thwarting further attempts, not to mention a plot by the Jews to take over the world.

i see your point thats exactly the view of the islamofascists joe was talking about ....... are you saying we hant been attacked at all and its all lies?

 

[kai]

But you ignore the cause of the attacks! If we hadn't given them cause, we wouldn't have been attacked. yes i see isolationism is the key to peace then, and lets not upset anyone they might kill our innocent civilians populations.
You have to understand. The US wants to take over and control the world. That is the Prime Directive behind US foreign policy.
Don't take my word for it. Google PNAC and see for yourself. Take special note of the authors. i did its not there
We are the aggressors. We are the New Rome. well you have senators ?

It is only natural that the rest of the world will either resist us or form craven alliances.

agreed, now off to the forum

 

[Alceste]

i see your point thats exactly the view of the islamofascists joe was talking about ....... are you saying we hant been attacked at all and its all lies?

No, the Reichstag really did burn, and the towers really did fall. As to the cause, since much of the evidence that could prove who was responsible in both cases has been suppressed or destroyed we will never know the nitty gritty details of either event.

What I am saying is that much like the Nazis used the Reichstag fire to persuade Germans to vilify Jews and leftists enough to willingly participate in a violent military campaign, the GOP has used the WTC attack to persuade Americans to vilify Muslims enough to willingly participate in a violent military campaign.

What is "all lies" is the bollox about spreading freedom and democracy and the slandering of Islam. It's a nice little pill to make you feel better about giving your life, or the life of your children, or murdering other people's children, for the hegemonic designs of your ruling elite.