Have people forgotten about 9/11?

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi lilithu,

I'm outta here Joe. I'm not mad, just increasingly aware of the fact that I am spending an inordinate amount of time arguing with folks whom I know will never differently. I'm arguing with you about the war and Obama when I could be actually doing something to make a difference in each case. Good night.

That's kinda sad since we established some common ground.

Just because you can say the sentence doesn't mean that it means something. You can repeat it over and over until others start to believe you, which is what the govt does, but it will still be a made-up construct in order to prey on people's fears and justify unwarranted invasions and occupations of other countries.

That is why I have been providing evdience along with my argument.

 

[kai]

No, the Reichstag really did burn, and the towers really did fall. As to the cause, since much of the evidence that could prove who was responsible in both cases has been suppressed or destroyed we will never know the nitty gritty details of either event. are you saying that the towers and the reichstag are similar crimes because the Nazis are wideley attributed to be the culprits , according to your reasoning the US government would have to be the culprits , personally i am not into conspiracy theories i accept bin ladens word for it.

What I am saying is that much like the Nazis used the Reichstag fire to persuade Germans to vilify Jews and leftists enough to willingly participate in a violent military campaign, the GOP has used the WTC attack to persuade Americans to vilify Muslims enough to willingly participate in a violent military campaign. if Alqueda did it then they did it, and they and their supporters shuld reap what they sow
, and certain muslims don't need much help in vilifying themselves. they are quite open in there goals and hatred

What is "all lies" is the bollox about spreading freedom and democracy and the slandering of Islam. It's a nice little pill to make you feel better about giving your life, or the life of your children, or murdering other people's children, for the hegemonic designs of your ruling elite.

who slanders Islam ? and i dont think its bollox to spread democracy, and you don't have any choice as i said the various organizations across the world who happen to claim to be Islamic are hell bent on destroying you

 

[McBell]

Maybe you are hung up on the word 'evil.' We will change things up a little bit: do you believe that people that cut off people's heads with whom they disagree with should be stopped?

Depends upon the situation.
Much like capital punishment.

 

[kai]

Depends upon the situation.
Much like capital punishment.

look mestemia do you condone the actions of the murdering scum that hacked off the head of keneth bigley and Nick Berg or not, stop beating around the bush if you think it was justified in some way then explain it .

 

[Alceste]

Hi Alceste,
Wait, I didn't hear you say that you made a false statement about Iraq never supporting terrorism. Maybe you could show me where you admitted your mistake. You might've been tricked. Nah, you were just mistaken.
No, we allied with the Soviets, does that mean we endorsed Soviet communism? Of course not. Saddam supported Islamofascist groups because he shared their vision.

Joe, Kai, you don't make any sense. I've explained myself, I think my explanation is perfectly clear. I'll let you in on a little secret. At the root of this, I am not writing for you or looking for common ground with you. I suspect you are lost to the dark side and nobody but you can bring you back into the light.

Nevertheless, it's part of my character that I can't pass by the sort of unthinking, racist seeds you and Kai are sowing without throwing my two bits in, because I feel that when views like yours are allowed to flourish without being challenged the world becomes a dangerous place. That's it, that's all.

Anyway, I think my work here is done. Ma'a salama, Joe.

 

[kai]

Joe, Kai, you don't make any sense. I've explained myself, I think my explanation is perfectly clear. I'll let you in on a little secret. At the root of this, I am not writing for you or looking for common ground with you. I suspect you are lost to the dark side and nobody but you can bring you back into the light.

Nevertheless, it's part of my character that I can't pass by the sort of unthinking, racist seeds you and Kai are sowing without throwing my two bits in, because I feel that when views like yours are allowed to flourish without being challenged the world becomes a dangerous place. That's it, that's all.

Anyway, I think my work here is done. Ma'a salama, Joe.

ha ha brilliant i didnt see that one coming, i thought you had a bit more fight in you .

and i came into this discussion because i can never have common ground with people who have planted their head firmly into it.

if i have planted any racist seeds then please quote me ,i find the acusation objectionable. if not then Adiue........... and remember dont go into the light

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Alceste,

So I guess when some makes such a false statement as :

There has never been evidence of a connection of any kind between Iraq and financing or supporting Islamic terrorists.

Then I could see why they would want to leave the discussion.

Good talking to you.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Mestemia,

Depends upon the situation.

If it depends on the situation, then tell me when it would be justified to cut somebody's head off because you disagree with him.

 

[UnityNow101]

If it depends on the situation, then tell me when it would be justified to cut somebody's head off because you disagree with him.

I would guess using your logic that is would be appropriate to kill another when they are on the opposing side, or pose a threat to your homeland, which is exactly why some of the "terrorists" are opposing us in the Middle East. But I guess the reason you are against them killing is because they want to kill YOU and pose a threat to YOUR way of living. Is that not why they feel that they are killing us as well? You will defend killing if it is to protect YOU and YOUR way of living; YOUR country. Yet you condemn others when they believe that they are doing the exact same thing. Oh, but you are justified in your killing. Of course, who am I kidding? I don't want to be labelled an unpatriotic America hater.:no(

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi UnityNow,

You completely missed where I was going with this.

I don't believe anyone should be cutting someone's head off because they disagree. That goes for people on 'my side' and people on 'their side.'

 

[UnityNow101]

What is the difference if you cut the head off of someone or drop a bomb on them? Either way, they are dead, correct? You are willing to drop bombs on others, but I assume that you don't believe that they should be doing the same to you, right? This is insanity. Why is one way of killing justified, while another is shunned? Is there really a difference between the two? Or is it that somebody has told you that it is better to die by being exploded by a bomb? My goodness...If you are killing someone, it sure as heck doesn't matter how it is done. Killing is killing.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hello Unity,

Yes, I believe it is morally permissible to kill those that cut heads off people they disagree with. And it would be morally permissible for somebody to kill me if I did the same thing.

Killing is killing.

Is it? Is there a difference between you intervening and saving your neighbor's life as someone is trying to kill him and the act of someone murdering your neighbor?

 

[McBell]

look mestemia do you condone the actions of the murdering scum that hacked off the head of keneth bigley and Nick Berg or not, stop beating around the bush if you think it was justified in some way then explain it .

Since I do not have all the facts, or even anything other than tons of emotional response presented as fact, how can I determine if it was justified or not?

were there laws broken that death was punishment?
If so, then it was justified.

Did those who cut off his head just randomly choose someone, kidnap him and cut off his head for no other reason than to elicit an emotional reaction?
If so, then it was not justified.

 

[PureX]

What is the difference if you cut the head off of someone or drop a bomb on them? Either way, they are dead, correct? You are willing to drop bombs on others, but I assume that you don't believe that they should be doing the same to you, right? This is insanity. Why is one way of killing justified, while another is shunned? Is there really a difference between the two? Or is it that somebody has told you that it is better to die by being exploded by a bomb? My goodness...If you are killing someone, it sure as heck doesn't matter how it is done. Killing is killing.

The answer is that OUR killing is justified by OUR rules and their killing isn't (even though their killing IS justified by THEIR rules). You are trying to point out that each side justifies their killing the same as the other, but you may as well save your breath, because there are few who are willing to recognize the lunacy of such self-justification.

 

[McBell]

You completely missed where I was going with this.

I don't believe anyone should be cutting someone's head off because they disagree. That goes for people on 'my side' and people on 'their side.'

It depends entirely upon what the disagreement is.
If it is merely a disagreement over whose god is the one true deity, then I agree with you.

However, if the disagreement is over letting someone kill my child or kill them, I disagree with you.

 

[McBell]

The answer is that OUR killing is justified by OUR rules and their killing isn't (even though their killing IS justified by THEIR rules). You are trying to point out that each side justifies their killing the same as the other, but you may as well save your breath, because there are few who are willing to recognize the lunacy of such self-justification.

I agree.
However their not recognizing it does not mean it is not the way it is.

 

[PureX]

People don't want to face the truth that killing other people is ALWAYS WRONG even though it's SOMETIMES NECESSARY. They want to pretend they live in a nice neat little universe where everything is linear and everything adds up and nothing ever contradicts itself.

But that's not the universe we live in. In the real universe soldiers are not heros. And real soldiers know this all too well. In the real universe laws do not render justice, and anyone who works in the criminal justice system knows this all too well. In the real universe no one gets to be "righteous". One honest look at our own consciences will establish that quickly enough. But people like the fantasy, better. They like to pretend they can be and are the "righteous ones", and that their view of themselves and the world constitutes automatic self-justification. That way they won't have to see how confused and culpable we all really are.

 

[UnityNow101]

Yes, I believe it is morally permissible to kill those that cut heads off people they disagree with. And it would be morally permissible for somebody to kill me if I did the same thing.

And this is exactly why the never-ending cycle of violence will continue on forevor. So long as we continue to justify one form of killing and despise another we will never stop the killing. It is only common sense. You believe that you are killing to save your people and your way of living. They are doing the same. I see no difference between the two.

 

[lilithu]

I don't believe anyone should be cutting someone's head off because they disagree. That goes for people on 'my side' and people on 'their side.'

But bombing them is ok? We have the power to bomb, so we bomb. They don't have the power to bomb, so they kidnap people and cut off their heads. Just because ours requires more organization and gadgets doesn't make it more civilized. I don't believe anyone should be cutting off heads or bombing countries that didn't attack us. regardless of sides.

 

[kai]

listen i don't know about you but my countries troops are there in Iraq to support the fledgling government at their request and under UN mandate, and thats what they are doing.

now the organization that favors beheading foreigners and Iraqis alike is called Tawhid and Jihad ("Oneness of God and jihad) islamist group, formerly led by the late and "unlamented on my part" psychopathic Jordanian Abu Musab al-Zarqarwi who's aim is to spread terror among Shia and foreigners and create a Sunni Islamic world, their favorite method of spreading this message is to kidnap Iraqis preferably Shia and leave their heads in full view somewhere the following morning.

now you will have to forgive me if i wish to bomb the hell out of these kind of murdering scum that hide behind the Quran and the label freedom fighter.