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Have you read the whole Bible?

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I doubt it meant to "give them milk and cookies." Plus, with God involved, anything is "possible", right?

"Tare" is apparently an archaic form of "tear." From dictionary.com:

verb, Archaic.
1. simple past tense and past participle of tear

Which, of course, has this meaning (among other similar ones):

2. to pull apart or in pieces by force, especially so as to leave ragged or irregular edges.

I'm pretty sure that's what the writers of The Bible were going for. Unless you have evidence for the "milk and cookies" version.
I go for the philosophical version. Perhaps the crowd of boys was of one mind when they began, but after the bear scare they began to think differently thus the crowd became "torn". NOT the boys got torn, but the group was torn. How many ways might it have been torn? I guess four ways which are two ways for each bear. One part stayed the same (annoyingly immature), one part got scared and ashamed, one part got scared and glorified the God which sent out two bears, and one group became the ancestors of all those who waste their time on the internet debating bull****. (I just made that last part up).
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There is no one to "lodge an official complaint" with EITHER WAY. Complain to God? How exactly does that work? I don't "complain to God." Is that what you think I am doing? I don't even believe in Him!



If I really could complain to God (note the "IF" part - again, please be sure you understand that I don't believe He exists), the first thing I would complain about is the sloppiness of His believers. I mean seriously... "Did God really do that?" What kind of a question is this? On one hand, you want to dole out scripture as "the truth" and use it to defend your precious positions as a believer - but then when something inconvenient in the text comes up, and it PLAINLY STATES WHAT GOD DID by making a ONE-TO-ONE correlation with Elisha cursing those people in the name of God and the bears appearing and ripping everyone up (I am not imagining the correlation - the scholars among your believer brethren even admit to it - I understand your desire to back-pedal on this, but you're doing a terrible job of it)... anyway, you use the text as "truth" out of one side of your mouth, and with the other side ask "Did God really do that?" when the text says that He did. It's ridiculous, and the very reason people like myself tend to put near ZERO stock in the empty words of believers.

Whatever dude, I don't think you understood my question. You seem to be hard hearted towards anything about God, close minded...

Hypothetically we might ask "Did God really do that"? so I asked you what reason do you have to believe God did not send two bears to rip apart 42 young boys? God created the Earth and all that is in it, including Sharks, bears, mountain lions and other creatures that will rip apart human beings from time to time. So it doesn't seem beyond reason to believe it happened.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are making things up to suit your own needs. Which would be fine, except the ACCEPTED truth of the passage IS that the bears were called forth, and mauled/killed the kids. Here, have a look at this link:

Answers in Genesis

This is a biblical support site, written by people who "believe" and actively try to defend The Bible, and even they admit that the truth of the passage is exactly what I have been saying all along.

And why wouldn't it be? I mean, give me a break! The Bible is chock full of violence and (especially in the Old Testament) that violence was used as a way to try and teach people to fear God - because you never know what He might unleash on you if He's trying to "teach you a lesson." The "lesson" with this passage was "don't make fun of people." Not a bad lesson, necessarily... but the writers of The Bible chose to blow the whole situation WAY WAY WAY out of proportion and have kids die in droves just because they poked fun at some guy's bald head. I mean... how insecure can you possibly be? To allow a bunch of kids to push you over the edge of emotional stability and call for their DEATH (or, at the very least, their immediate clawing/mauling and descent into pain and suffering - again, please read the text at the link I included above, where all of this is admitted to).

And I find you to be an extremely dishonest person, trying to claim that maybe the passage, instead, meant that Elisha was "lightly esteeming" them, or some such garbage. You're either dishonest, or deluded - take your pick, 'cause there aren't many other options. What would "lightly esteeming" even mean?? The word "esteem" means to appraise the value of, or hold in high regard. So, to "lightly esteem" would be told hold in a small amount of high regard - or have medium/mediocre regard for. But the verb is present tense - so it's like you're saying he was actively evaluating them to determine their value or something - which is nonsense. It's just an excuse - and a complete detraction and misdirection from what The Bible is actually delivering with the passage.

And yes, I would love to hear your outrageous lie of an excuse for what "tare" represented. By all means. This is also covered in the link I included above:

"The Strong’s number for tare is #1234 (baqa‘). This word variously refers to the breaking open of mountains and city walls, dividing the Red Sea, splitting wood, breaking bottles, making a way through a line of soldiers, getting a group of citizens to disavow their nation, and—in a prophetic metaphor for the destruction of a nation in Hosea 13:8—tearing by wild beasts."

So, in closing, stop lying to yourself, or lying to others - whichever it is you are doing.
The accepted version of all those who are "lying in the power of the wicked one"?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
I go for the philosophical version. Perhaps the crowd of boys was of one mind when they began, but after the bear scare they began to think differently thus the crowd became "torn". NOT the boys got torn, but the group was torn. How many ways might it have been torn? I guess four ways which are two ways for each bear. One part stayed the same (annoyingly immature), one part got scared and ashamed, one part got scared and glorified the God which sent out two bears, and one group became the ancestors of all those who waste their time on the internet debating bull****. (I just made that last part up).

Further proving that it is really quite possible (and simply okay) for anyone to interpret nearly anything in The Bible in any way they want to. Which, unfortunately, means that it is nearly useless as a "definitive guide" on many subjects.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Whatever dude, I don't think you understood my question. You seem to be hard hearted towards anything about God, close minded...

Hypothetically we might ask "Did God really do that"? so I asked you what reason do you have to believe God did not send two bears to rip apart 42 young boys? God created the Earth and all that is in it, including Sharks, bears, mountain lions and other creatures that will rip apart human beings from time to time. So it doesn't seem beyond reason to believe it happened.

Whatever dude.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Further proving that it is really quite possible (and simply okay) for anyone to interpret nearly anything in The Bible in any way they want to. Which, unfortunately, means that it is nearly useless as a "definitive guide" on many subjects.
That is correct! It is why I keep telling people that the Bible is NOT for worship.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
The accepted version of all those who are "lying in the power of the wicked one"?

I literally could not sigh loud enough to attempt to console myself against the inanity of this post. I tried... and failed miserably. I even tried rolling my eyes at the same time... still not enough.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I literally could not sigh loud enough to attempt to console myself against the inanity of this post. I tried... and failed miserably. I even tried rolling my eyes at the same time... still not enough.
As if I made it up? LOL

I didn't think that. Someone else did and.............the same people who believe the bears could and did kill all those boys also believe 1 John 5:19. Did you not know that? :D
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
As if I made it up? LOL

I didn't think that. Someone else did and.............the same people who believe the bears could and did kill all those boys also believe 1 John 5:19. Did you not know that? :D

Context is key. Who cares where you got the quote? Honestly... why did you think that mattered at all?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If both 1 John 5:19 and 2 Kings 2:24 are true words of wisdom, then it has to follow that most people have the wrong impression. Don't you think?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I mean every page. And if you have, how long did it take for you to do that?

man-reading-scripture.jpg


I've read 3, Kjv, esv and niv. First two took several months (6+) but i kept cross checking and referencing various passages, the reason being, i was trying to find why some Christians are so sick minded, and yes it's all there, genocide, child murder, vengeance, rape, subjugation, slavery, theft etc.

I read the niv because i needed a good laugh. Actually i was looking to see how the authors had changed the emphasised, by missing out and rewording whole rafts of scripture. And some people swear its the only true bible. The mind boggles
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
OK. If the whole world in the liar lies then "the accepted version" (YOUR words, not mine) means what in your opinion?
A fair point, actually.

All I was trying to point out was that people who have probably spent more time than @Kemosloby studying and interpreting The Bible (if there are any questions about this please see the posts where it was mistakenly deduced by @Kemosloby that there was ONE bear, even after I quoted a link to the scripture that clearly states there were TWO) have already admitted to the essential interpretation of the passage in question being that the bears had, at the very least, mauled the people, and that this was done by God at the behest of Elisha who had cursed them.

So, "the authorities" have already concurred that the bear attack is to be interpreted just as it is described. Do you admit to there being NO AUTHORITIES on The Bible, then? I will readily accept this premise, to be honest. It is all craziness and tomfoolery if you ask me. It makes almost no difference what the text says - yet so many are so keen on it that they devote their lives to it. I just can't abide by people using it when convenient and backing away from or putting spin on the inconvenient parts when it is OBVIOUS what the intent of the passages is. So obvious that the mental gymnastics needed to come up with some "other truth" about things is as embarrassing to witness as it should be to the person doing the gymnastic routine.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A fair point, actually.

All I was trying to point out was that people who have probably spent more time than @Kemosloby studying and interpreting The Bible (if there are any questions about this please see the posts where it was mistakenly deduced by @Kemosloby that there was ONE bear, even after I quoted a link to the scripture that clearly states there were TWO) have already admitted to the essential interpretation of the passage in question being that the bears had, at the very least, mauled the people, and that this was done by God at the behest of Elisha who had cursed them.

So, "the authorities" have already concurred that the bear attack is to be interpreted just as it is described. Do you admit to there being NO AUTHORITIES on The Bible, then? I will readily accept this premise, to be honest. It is all craziness and tomfoolery if you ask me. It makes almost no difference what the text says - yet so many are so keen on it that they devote their lives to it. I just can't abide by people using it when convenient and backing away from or putting spin on the inconvenient parts when it is OBVIOUS what the intent of the passages is. So obvious that the mental gymnastics needed to come up with some "other truth" about things is as embarrassing to witness as it should be to the person doing the gymnastic routine.
It is mind gymnastics to trust that one or two bears can maul more than a few people in one day. Even if the children froze in place, the bears would not attack them all. That is a FACT.

The only way the scene could have been real is if the bears were under the control of something unnatural. If they were, then 1. God killed those children or 2. Elisha was a party to demon activity.

Both scenarios are unacceptable in the context of the whole damn thing.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
<yawn>

... yet another bible-bashing thread cleverly masked as an adolescent temper-tantrum.​

</yawn>
Hehehe. Ok, I'll be the first to admit I've never read it cover to cover. For me, it was just not a compelling enough read, though I fully understand that many others find it enormously compelling. I think I got as far as Revelations and put it down thinking, "Ok, then." o_O:eek::rolleyes:
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
A year is not enough to study the whole Bible, but what your group did, is commendable.
No, it's not enough, but it was a start. And, as I said, it wasn't for just one year. I did that program for like eight years. We learned a lot of new things each time, because there was group discussion on which parts to focus on per chapter.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
It is mind gymnastics to trust that one or two bears can maul more than a few people in one day. Even if the children froze in place, the bears would not attack them all. That is a FACT.

The only way the scene could have been real is if the bears were under the control of something unnatural. If they were, then 1. God killed those children or 2. Elisha was a party to demon activity.

Both scenarios are unacceptable in the context of the whole damn thing.

I don't "trust" that one or two bears mauled more than a few people. Are you joking? Is that what this is about? You think I "trust" The Bible? I merely quoted WHAT THE TEXT SAYS. It is up to those who hold the text as sacred or "infallible" to explain why it says it. I'm with you... the whole thing is unacceptable - which is what makes it all the more ridiculous that there are those who attempt to accept it.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't "trust" that one or two bears mauled more than a few people. Are you joking? Is that what this is about? You think I "trust" The Bible? I merely quoted WHAT THE TEXT SAYS. It is up to those who hold the text as sacred or "infallible" to explain why it says it. I'm with you... the whole thing is unacceptable - which is what makes it all the more ridiculous that there are those who attempt to accept it.
Thank you for staying with me, but I think that the text doesn't say the bears tore each individual boy. It is assumed. Tell me why it CAN'T mean that the bears broke through the group of 42 bears.

Short Definition: split
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to cleave, break open or through

2 Samuel 23:16
HEB: וַיִּבְקְעוּ֩ שְׁלֹ֨שֶׁת הַגִּבֹּרִ֜ים
NAS: mighty men broke through the camp
KJV: mighty men brake through the host
INT: broke the three mighty

Strong's Hebrew: 1234. בָּקַע (baqa) -- to cleave, break open or through
 
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