Have you seen God? Do you believe in God?

[A Human]

Note: I am non English speaking person so excuse my poor English.

Ok Finally I am out of beliefs which I have been seeing since I was born. Don't take these as jokes or foolish, If you got answer then just let me know or else pass! No offense I am really interested in knowing this. I am not against any God or religion.

[1] God is the one who made us.
Q.: Where is he, I cant see!

[2] God is like our mother and father!
Q. Why God need a different house, place out of our home and why he need money, Why he need bigger and bigger house!?? Why he need "managers" who work for them and manage "properties" As far as I know Lord Shiva even don't wear proper clothes and leave in a mountain!!

[3] For God everybody is same!
Q.: Why there are religions, like Hindu, Muslims, Christian.. I really cant understand this thing. Even there are more castes in religion, which divide people more.

[4] God need dedication
Q.: Fine! Why he need it in form of money or labor! Have you remember any day that your father and mother need money to make them happy? They will be happy if YOU are happy! If you are doing good!

[5] Why worship a human?
Ok God is unseen so we are worshiping now humans.. Who claimed that they have either seen God or have got their blessings.. come on.. We need to check what good they have done for the human being.. Why we call them "God" themselves.. this is really shocking!

Please answer them.

 

[jeager106]

1) I can't see God either.
2) I had no idea 'god" needed any house or any mangers.
3) I have no idea why there are so many religions. I'm also confused.
4) As near as I know God needs no money or labor. Who is telling these things?
5) I would too be shocked if anyone called a human "god" or worshipped a human.

Where are these questions coming from?

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

Note: I am non English speaking person so excuse my poor English.
Please answer them.

Namaste,
From a hindu-philosophical perspective:

[1] God is the one who made us.
Q.: Where is he, I cant see!

You wrote this, and assuming it didn't appear by itself, yet i don't see you. Perhaps i can, say over Skype, then so it is, with the right technology, albeit metaphysical, you can see God. Not just somewhere out there, but more importantly within and everywhere.

[2] God is like our mother and father!
Q. Why God need a different house, place out of our home and why he need money, Why he need bigger and bigger house!?? Why he need "managers" who work for them and manage "properties" As far as I know Lord Shiva even don't wear proper clothes and leave in a mountain!!

He doesn't, He dwells within and everywhere. That is Shiva according to popular, though not the only, conceptualization. As an aside, how can something omnipresent be clothed, wouldn't that make cloth greater?

[3] For God everybody is same!
Q.: Why there are religions, like Hindu, Muslims, Christian.. I really cant understand this thing. Even there are more castes in religion, which divide people more.

Consider this as an analogy: for electricity every appliance is the same (fan, bulb, tube light etc), but these are fashioned out for our convenience. So are these. Hindu way of life became an "ism" only recently.

[4] God need dedication
Q.: Fine! Why he need it in form of money or labor! Have you remember any day that your father and mother need money to make them happy? They will be happy if YOU are happy! If you are doing good!

No, He "needs" nothing. Wouldn't be much of a god if He did, would He?

[5] Why worship a human?
Ok God is unseen so we are worshiping now humans.. Who claimed that they have either seen God or have got their blessings.. come on.. We need to check what good they have done for the human being.. Why we call them "God" themselves.. this is really shocking!

Perhaps, you are referring to Guru. Now there are two types of them - 1) those that you hear and read about in the media: this is gross misappropriation of the term guru for these individuals. 2) true Guru: you'll never hear about them or see them. The former are anyways spiritual-businessmen, the lesser said about them, the better. If you happen to meet one of the latter, you won't ask this question anymore.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[Aupmanyav]

Kudos, तत्त्वप्रह्व, for your replies. Just a 'like' is not enough.
However, A Human, are you sure there is one?
Welcome to the forum with your first post.

A famous poem by Kabir, a saint of India (Hindu or Muslim, not certain, though raised by a Muslim):

"Na mandir mein, na masjid mein, na Kabe Kailas*,
Moko kahan dhundhe re bande, main to tere paas."

Not in temples, nor in mosques, neither in Kaba nor in Kailash,
Where do you search me, Man? I am with you.
Where do you search me?
Also, Rabbism: Bulla Ki Jaana - Rabbi Shergill (Lyrics)
* Mount Kailas, where Hindus believe Shiva stays.

 

[A Human]

Hi तत्त्वप्रह्व,

First of all Thanks a ton for your replies. Your answers were one of the best I have got! They are productive, logical and convincing!

Namaste,
From a hindu-philosophical perspective:

You wrote this, and assuming it didn't appear by itself, yet i don't see you. Perhaps i can, say over Skype, then so it is, with the right technology, albeit metaphysical, you can see God. Not just somewhere out there, but more importantly within and everywhere.

My intention behind this question was, Why we need a God like thing, We never have seen something like that any day. Why believe in God? If "God" is someone who cares about us without being selfish then I can say My parents are my god, I should worship them not the one whom I have never seen. Why God came in existence? I guess its result of human's helplessness? When he cant do something when he need help.. he seeks help of a super natural thing which can help him?

He doesn't, He dwells within and everywhere. That is Shiva according to popular, though not the only, conceptualization. As an aside, how can something omnipresent be clothed, wouldn't that make cloth greater?

I asked this because everybody in this world finding God in Temple, Church and Masjid. People waste their money after building such "home" for God.. This is pure waste of money. So you are also thinking same? Going in Temple is worthless?

Consider this as an analogy: for electricity every appliance is the same (fan, bulb, tube light etc), but these are fashioned out for our convenience. So are these. Hindu way of life became an "ism" only recently.

This is very logical answer but not what I was looking for? So whats happening after "dividing" humans in "religion" and "caste".. Just war and war? Humans are being separate from each other on the name of God. Hindu has 33 crore Gods! I know the concept but actually if you see in the real life.. there are tons of Gods.. Each community has their own God. Why we need such system where people are divided!

No, He "needs" nothing. Wouldn't be much of a god if He did, would He?

I have seen in temples, "Managers" are asking for donations, There are "dan peti" "donation box" in almost every temple in India. There is race, who can build bigger and bigger temple in the world, no one care, who can build biggest hospital, who can build biggest school!! Irony!! Are you agree with me that this system is wrong?

Perhaps, you are referring to Guru. Now there are two types of them - 1) those that you hear and read about in the media: this is gross misappropriation of the term guru for these individuals. 2) true Guru: you'll never hear about them or see them. The former are anyways spiritual-businessmen, the lesser said about them, the better. If you happen to meet one of the latter, you won't ask this question anymore.

Yes my question was regarding "said" Guru.. The first one in your reply. So we should always avoid this agree? I cant say about later because I have never found such a person who is so much perfect. I can say my parents are my gurus they always guide me in right direction.. I guess who give you right direction and help you being selflessness, is our true guru, in this case, our parents are our guru and also God!
===============

I believe in "humanity" Where people should help each other and respect each other. One said "Manav seva hi pravhu seva hai" "Helping human is the worship of God"

 

[A Human]

1) I can't see God either.
2) I had no idea 'god" needed any house or any mangers.
3) I have no idea why there are so many religions. I'm also confused.
4) As near as I know God needs no money or labor. Who is telling these things?
5) I would too be shocked if anyone called a human "god" or worshipped a human.

Where are these questions coming from?

In India, there are hundreds of thousands of people who worship several human "God", I guess you are not Indian otherwise you know this. This is happening till date!!!

These all questions are of mine only. I am seeing and feeling these everyday.. finally I have been trying to get answer. I dont want to be a sheep any more and run with crowd. No offense. I am just looking for answers.!!!

 

[A Human]

Kudos, तत्त्वप्रह्व, for your replies. Just a 'like' is not enough.
However, A Human, are you sure there is one?
Welcome to the forum with your first post.

A famous poem by Kabir, a saint of India (Hindu or Muslim, not certain, though raised by a Muslim):

"Na mandir mein, na masjid mein, na Kabe Kailas*,
Moko kahan dhundhe re bande, main to tere paas."

Not in temples, nor in mosques, neither in Kaba nor in Kailash,
Where do you search me? I am with you.
Where do you search me?
Also, Rabbism: Bulla Ki Jaana - Rabbi Shergill (Lyrics)
* Mount Kailas, where Hindus believe Shiva stays.

Nice lines yes there are lot people believe in this too that God is in our heart but the question is "Why God???" Why he is needed? We have several humans around us who help us everyday.. Are they god or the one who never appeared to us and we have never seen him helping us... ??

No offense but I respect your views and opinions but I saw that you believe in "Ram" You just saw the serial or may have read "Ramayan"
People say he is god! Why? Because he killed "Ravan" who was evil. Logically, in modern time, There are Judges, Lawyers and police who give punishment to evil, bad guys so they are god isnt it?

I guess someone will say "God is perfect" He never doe anything wrong but these judges, lawyers and police do! right? Well "what is right" and "what is wrong" is point of our thinking perspective In India, Hindu and Vaishnav people, dont eat meat or drink alcohol, its said to be "sin" but in abroad, other countries,, its normal and even necessary.. Like without alcohol you will be freezed in cold of -40 degree isnt it?

This is very confusing to me!!! Life was so easier when we were not so educated and developed, everything was so good and human! Do you want to see a god? Ok just stay with a 5 year child, He is form of God if there is somewhere. Because child never lie, for him everyone is same, he dont get offended, he will be very happy with a small thing, even a small chocolate! Ask for help and he will help without any demand!

Phew.. I was never confused like this! Why we all are so mislead-ed?

 

[Sumit]

Note: I am non English speaking person so excuse my poor English.

Your English looks fine to me (atleast better than mine)

Ok Finally I am out of beliefs which I have been seeing since I was born. Don't take these as jokes or foolish, If you got answer then just let me know or else pass! No offense I am really interested in knowing this. I am not against any God or religion.

[1] God is the one who made us.
Q.: Where is he, I cant see!

God is omnipresent, as air cannot be seen through naked eyes but can only be experienced in very similar way senses aren't enough to locate the god, god can only be experienced through our inner self.

[2] God is like our mother and father!
Q. Why God need a different house, place out of our home and why he need money, Why he need bigger and bigger house!?? Why he need "managers" who work for them and manage "properties" As far as I know Lord Shiva even don't wear proper clothes and leave in a mountain!!

God does not need anything.

[3] For God everybody is same!
Q.: Why there are religions, like Hindu, Muslims, Christian.. I really cant understand this thing. Even there are more castes in religion, which divide people more.

God do not create religion, its we people who do so. God creates only Dharma which is eternal and applied on all irrespective of their religion.

[4] God need dedication
Q.: Fine! Why he need it in form of money or labor! Have you remember any day that your father and mother need money to make them happy?

Who told so??

[5] Why worship a human?
Ok God is unseen so we are worshiping now humans.. Who claimed that they have either seen God or have got their blessings.. come on.. We need to check what good they have done for the human being.. Why we call them "God" themselves.. this is really shocking!

Please answer them.

I don't worship anyone alive. However I do perform ancestral worship sometimes for guidance because aatman is immortal.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Phew.. I was never confused like this! Why we all are so mislead-ed?

Stay in the forum for some time. You might get what you want.

 

[Maya3]

God doesn't need anything. God is whether or not we make temples or discuss his/it's/hers attributes or not.
All the temples all of the donations, all the beads etc are for us, God doesn't need it.

Maya

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

My intention behind this question was, Why we need a God like thing, We never have seen something like that any day. Why believe in God? If "God" is someone who cares about us without being selfish then I can say My parents are my god, I should worship them not the one whom I have never seen. Why God came in existence? I guess its result of human's helplessness? When he cant do something when he need help.. he seeks help of a super natural thing which can help him?

Yes my question was regarding "said" Guru.. The first one in your reply. So we should always avoid this agree? I cant say about later because I have never found such a person who is so much perfect. I can say my parents are my gurus they always guide me in right direction.. I guess who give you right direction and help you being selflessness, is our true guru, in this case, our parents are our guru and also God!

Indeed, there is no greater god or guru than one's parents. They are to be worshipped, no doubt. And there is no need to believe in God at all to be a good human being and there is no point believing in God if one isn't a good human being. But it would be unreasonable to say God cannot be conceived any other way. For then, what would those that have no memory of parents or those whose parents have separated, for instance, do? God didn't come to existence one fine day, He was always there. Morality extends up to and finds its basis in reason which is a function of the intellect. But an individual is not just a component of senses, mind, and intellect. This is apparent when one says 'i am thinking' - it doesn't mean he and thoughts are one, but that the locus of thoughts is in him. So until you realize who you are referring to when you say 'I', it really doesn't matter whether you believe in god or not. We will be able to discuss gods existence when one is sure of one's own existence and true nature. In hindu dharma at least, the conceptualization of God arose not out of desperation / helplessness, but out of profound wisdom that transcends material agonies.

I asked this because everybody in this world finding God in Temple, Church and Masjid. People waste their money after building such "home" for God.. This is pure waste of money. So you are also thinking same? Going in Temple is worthless?

I have seen in temples, "Managers" are asking for donations, There are "dan peti" "donation box" in almost every temple in India. There is race, who can build bigger and bigger temple in the world, no one care, who can build biggest hospital, who can build biggest school!! Irony!! Are you agree with me that this system is wrong?

A temple is neither a home for god nor a place for "praying". The ancients discovered places where immanent divinity expressed itself and built temples to radiate that energy across a greater geographical area. The entire design of temples is built around this concept, in addition to being a representation of how to meditate on god. One visits a temple to simply absorb that energy as much as possible and elevate one's own potential for self-realization. Visit Badrinath during non-peak season and meditate during early hours, you'll see what i mean.

The dan-peti arose out a different need - though i agree it is misused by some zealots in many temples, it was needed to sustain the operations of temple when the british diverted the income accruing to the temples to reach their treasury instead. In the name of endowment, the current Govts continue to do the same too. Just because of being surrounded by dirty water, a lotus doesn't become worthless.

This is very logical answer but not what I was looking for? So whats happening after "dividing" humans in "religion" and "caste".. Just war and war? Humans are being separate from each other on the name of God. Hindu has 33 crore Gods! I know the concept but actually if you see in the real life.. there are tons of Gods.. Each community has their own God. Why we need such system where people are divided!

It is not so much a division as it is made to appear. The castes have internal-mobility based on the nature of person. In a research article published by an american of Indian-origin, the author cites recorded evidences where "born-shudra teachers" taught "born-brahmin" kids under the banyan tree during the early-mid 18th century. Any society organizes itself into classification based on occupation whether by design or sometimes inadvertently. Hindu-ism is a dharma - from the root-word Dhr which means "that which supports" - what it supports is the pursuit of highest ideal of wisdom in order to transcend the agonies arising out of material opposites. Here the allegiance is not to a book or a person but to highest wisdom - whether theistic or atheistic is left to the individual. In the dharmic system each is analyzed and either endorsed or refuted, and explained in great detail but never hectored.

We have 33 crore epithets of God - one is free to choose any / or as many / none without having to condescend the others. What is wrong in having a particular conceptualization of God as long as it doesn't transgress on the right to svadharma of others? No matter how good a system, its efficacy or lack of it, will always rest on the people - when people have the right understanding the apparent flaws in the system will subside automatically. It is not as much of division as it is diversity.


At times it is necessary to stand-up to the right to pursue this truth and sometimes merely to express solidarity toward this freedom - most monotheistic religions seldom understand this and fall into the trap of 'my god better than yours'. The fight for such true freedom of thought and practice indeed is required, both at intellectual and mundane spheres of life, without which humanity would soon be forced follow a book and/or a person.

"It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them." Mark Twain

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram prabhu ji
firstly , ...welcome to RF .....please do not worry about your english it realy is not that poor , it is good to have a new member

Note: I am non English speaking person so excuse my poor English.

Ok Finally I am out of beliefs which I have been seeing since I was born. Don't take these as jokes or foolish, If you got answer then just let me know or else pass! No offense I am really interested in knowing this. I am not against any God or religion.

I want to try to answer these questions before reading anyone elses answers as I am sure we will all have different perspectives to offer

[1] God is the one who made us.
Q.: Where is he, I cant see!

many people throughout history have asked this question they may feel a natural beleif towards God and an inner need for God , but still feel the need to have sight of God , some proof of his existance ....yet still he eludes many of us , ....but there are also many who see God everywhere and see him as the unseen hand behind all that lives and moves within this universe ,
to me the comon mistake is wanting to see God through our mundane perception , whereas in truth God is so much vaster than we could even begin to comprehend with the mundane sences .

[2] God is like our mother and father!
Q. Why God need a different house, place out of our home and why he need money, Why he need bigger and bigger house!?? Why he need "managers" who work for them and manage "properties" As far as I know Lord Shiva even don't wear proper clothes and leave in a mountain!!

God himself does not need these houses we build for him , ...we need them , ...we are offering him a place to reside somewhere where we can comune with him and receive his darshan , true he is omnipresent , he is everywhere , but we find it hard to see him so we build him a pallace , we build it with love and care , we appoint managers to look after the buildings and grounds and pujaris to attend to the needs of the murtis we install there , ....as you know the Murti is the form in which we ask God to reside so that we can see him and can feel his presence in a way which we can understand and focus upon ,..and it is to that form that we offer clothing and food stuffs , this we do out of love and devotion , it is not realy because God needs them , but it is because we want to bestow gifts and offer hospitality .

[3] For God everybody is same!
Q.: Why there are religions, like Hindu, Muslims, Christian.. I really cant understand this thing. Even there are more castes in religion, which divide people more.

we all understand God in diffferent ways , we understand different aspects of him , then accidentaly we make these aspects into a religion , we base our religions in our understanding , and because that understanding is incomplete we form different veiws , and form different religions around those incomplete veiws.
and as for caste , this is our misscomception .

[4] God need dedication
Q.: Fine! Why he need it in form of money or labor! Have you remember any day that your father and mother need money to make them happy? They will be happy if YOU are happy! If you are doing good!

We give in the form of service , but we should only give according to our means , this is simply our way of showing our love and gratitude .
How many times do we give to our family and freinds , not because they need , but because we want to show our love and to share our good fortune .

[5] Why worship a human?
Ok God is unseen so we are worshiping now humans.. Who claimed that they have either seen God or have got their blessings.. come on.. We need to check what good they have done for the human being.. Why we call them "God" themselves.. this is really shocking!

if we worship a human in the form of a guru or acharya it is because we beleive that they are blessed with more knowledge of God than our selves , yes I would agree completely that this needs to be seen in their actions we canot call a person a god , some belive their acharyas to be eminations of God but we need to be very carefull in acepting that all gurus are god without realy knowing that their every thought and action is with the pure motivation of God ,

 

[Vinayaka]

1) God emanated us out of himself, and we are part of Him. He did not create that, but molded it.
2) God does not need any of these things. He exists, and that in itself is sufficient. Between Mahapralayas there is only God.
3. We're the same only in essence .... we're God. Just as all snowflakes are snow, each snowflake is also different because crystalisation is random. Sp too with souls.
4. We live happier fuller lives when we're dedicated. Dedication to anything brings more results. Just as dedicated practice brings a better musician, dedicated religion brings better results.
5. In the Guru/sishya relationship, we're worshipping the essence, or God, not the human who happens to have that essence more visible.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram तत्त्वप्रह्व ji

Indeed, there is no greater god or guru than one's parents. They are to be worshipped, no doubt. And there is no need to believe in God at all to be a good human being and there is no point believing in God if one isn't a good human being. But it would be unreasonable to say God cannot be conceived any other way. For then, what would those that have no memory of parents or those whose parents have separated, for instance, do? God didn't come to existence one fine day, He was always there. Morality extends up to and finds its basis in reason which is a function of the intellect. But an individual is not just a component of senses, mind, and intellect. This is apparent when one says 'i am thinking' - it doesn't mean he and thoughts are one, but that the locus of thoughts is in him. So until you realize who you are referring to when you say 'I', it really doesn't matter whether you believe in god or not. We will be able to discuss gods existence when one is sure of one's own existence and true nature. In hindu dharma at least, the conceptualization of God arose not out of desperation / helplessness, but out of profound wisdom that transcends material agonies.

much of what you write I can agree with in that one does not need to belive in God to be a good Human being , and that the greatest of gurus is ultimatly the parent , but what of the person who's parent is a the epitomy of adharma , ...who is drunkard or a theif , what of the parent who teaches nothing worthwhile to the child , should that parent be worshiped ? .....who does this child turn to as a higher authority , from Whom does this child learn Dharma ?

and I must comend you upon the comment ......''So until you realize who you are referring to when you say 'I', it really doesn't matter whether you believe in god or not. We will be able to discuss gods existence when one is sure of one's own existence and true nature. ''

as surely when one finds the true nature of the self , one also finds God .

A temple is neither a home for god nor a place for "praying". The ancients discovered places where immanent divinity expressed itself and built temples to radiate that energy across a greater geographical area. The entire design of temples is built around this concept, in addition to being a representation of how to meditate on god. One visits a temple to simply absorb that energy as much as possible and elevate one's own potential for self-realization. Visit Badrinath during non-peak season and meditate during early hours, you'll see what i mean.

this may be true on the ancient temples , but in more recent history Temples have not been built on models of the universe or with respect to the vasstu shastra . these more recent temples were built to serve as Temples to house the deity form of the lord . in some respects the temple it self has evolved aroung our needs to have Darshan of the Lord . it is true however that these temples serve as reserviors of emense energy or power (that energy comes equaly from the positioning and perfection of the structure and from the yajna performed there ), prehaps some need a deity form inorder to relate to that power and to perform their devotions , others do not . ...and in just the same way some need prayer prayer is yajna also .

At times it is necessary to stand-up to the right to pursue this truth and sometimes merely to express solidarity toward this freedom - most monotheistic religions seldom understand this and fall into the trap of 'my god better than yours'. The fight for such true freedom of thought and practice indeed is required, both at intellectual and mundane spheres of life, without which humanity would soon be forced follow a book and/or a person.

it might equaly be said that a 'non theist' is equaly capable of claiming his veiw to be superior , it is not just the preserve of the monotheists to act in a superior manner , ...it is merely a sign of ignorance , ...yet we all which ever tradition or anti tradition we follow , seaching for the same truth , and if along the path we find our humanity then surely that will speed our progress .

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

namaskaram तत्त्वप्रह्व ji

Namaste ratikala-ji,

much of what you write I can agree with in that one does not need to belive in God to be a good Human being , and that the greatest of gurus is ultimatly the parent , but what of the person who's parent is a the epitomy of adharma , ...who is drunkard or a theif , what of the parent who teaches nothing worthwhile to the child , should that parent be worshiped ? .....who does this child turn to as a higher authority , from Whom does this child learn Dharma ?

Agree, which is why i feel:

But it would be unreasonable to say God cannot be conceived any other way. For then, what would those that have no memory of parents or those whose parents have separated, for instance, do?

Nevertheless, parents are to be respected and this is unequivocally supported in the shastras - even if they are detrimental to one's spiritual progress: Fro e.g., Prahlada and Dhruva. One cannot say they'd have nothing to teach, for they'll by example show what not to be.

this may be true on the ancient temples , but in more recent history Temples have not been built on models of the universe or with respect to the vasstu shastra . these more recent temples were built to serve as Temples to house the deity form of the lord . in some respects the temple it self has evolved aroung our needs to have Darshan of the Lord . it is true however that these temples serve as reserviors of emense energy or power (that energy comes equaly from the positioning and perfection of the structure and from the yajna performed there ), prehaps some need a deity form inorder to relate to that power and to perform their devotions , others do not . ...and in just the same way some need prayer prayer is yajna also .

Yes, but there is a caveat: it is better not to visit any and sundry temples, for the sannidhana in a temple consecrated by a human who is not a rishi, may not be favorable and can impact adversely and diminish spiritual energy. Some may feel relieved when you visit such a temple, this could well be because of draining of pent-up spiritual energy that the body was not prepared to assimilate. There are stringent rules that are to be followed in establishing temples - and now you have temples sprouting like mushrooms.

it might equaly be said that a 'non theist' is equaly capable of claiming his veiw to be superior , it is not just the preserve of the monotheists to act in a superior manner , ...it is merely a sign of ignorance , ...yet we all which ever tradition or anti tradition we follow , seaching for the same truth , and if along the path we find our humanity then surely that will speed our progress .

I understand what you mean, but i feel every individual has the right to consider his view superior - the problem arises when that view achieves critical mass and begins imposing itself on others. I have yet to come across non-theist/atheist/agnostic/polytheist/pantheist inquisitions and jihads; until such time i will hold all of them better than you know who. The non-theists can only be guilty of, if at all, trying to rationalize what is beyond intellectual grasp without realizing or accepting that the scope of such reasoning is itself very narrow.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[ShivaFan]

[1] God is the one who made us.
Q.: Where is he, I cant see!
You will have Hindus speak of God Within. Which is correct, but I have also had experiences of God “over there”. Meaning, actual visions and apparitions, clear and present “force” within a group of devotees singing “devotional songs” (known as bhajans), been present with others when Murtis (forms, idols, vessels of Divine spirit) have actually moved in position, “ghostly” appearances of what seems to be some saint or other devotee from the past appearing outside a temple behind where the Murti is located and then “enters through the wall” with multiple witnesses and various things such as that. Now I know that sound somewhat “magical”, but I can tell you that there are states of “ecstasy” that are in fact real, colorful, “attacks” all the senses, can perhaps “spook” some so it isn’t for those not on the path of Bhakti for example. There are moments with some devotees who definitely have powerful “presence” that is God. I will get to Gurus and such in a minute.

[2] God is like our mother and father!
Q. Why God need a different house, place out of our home and why he need money, Why he need bigger and bigger house!?? Why he need "managers" who work for them and manage "properties" As far as I know Lord Shiva even don't wear proper clothes and leave in a mountain!!
Divnity doesn’t need anything. We like it to have temples, and the Divines also like to have temples to give “darshan” (communion). For example, I am not in the Himalayan mountains before naked Shiva in meditation. Perhaps I should be. But it is sort of a problem for me at this time to go to the Himalayas. But then, I can go into a temple, and in a minute or so it sure feels like Shiva is right there, I can see Him in meditative form high up on those mountains. Interesting. In fact, the Murti itself may be that very Image! Which makes the “focus” even easier!

[3] For God everybody is same!
Q.: Why there are religions, like Hindu, Muslims, Christian.. I really cant understand this thing. Even there are more castes in religion, which divide people more.

You are not the same. Your relation to the Divine may be a special one different than mine. But for sure, the yogas are going to work. You will find out when you try.


[4] God need dedication
Q.: Fine! Why he need it in form of money or labor! Have you remember any day that your father and mother need money to make them happy? They will be happy if YOU are happy! If you are doing good!

It is the experience of Hinduism that is Hinduism. One day, that experience will go on non-stop, that is called Moksha. Consider the experience, not just the Divine. Think of it like your love for another, pretend you are a boy and there is a girl you love. The love is the experience. It is between you and her. So you may think you love her. But you love love. But of course, she has to be there, because it takes two to have that love. You can pretend to only love yourself, but then you sort of notice it isn’t really love. You become unsure what it even is. Try to just love yourself, good luck little star.

[5] Why worship a human?
Ok God is unseen so we are worshiping now humans.. Who claimed that they have either seen God or have got their blessings.. come on.. We need to check what good they have done for the human being.. Why we call them "God" themselves.. this is really shocking!

Various things have been passed down, very carefully, from long, long ago. The Guru system helps maintain that. You have something called “karma”, you will need to learn about that but perhaps you have some ideas. If a Guru takes you, that Guru also takes your karma. Now you can very easily see things as never before, that bad karma is “poof!” – gone! Be careful after that point, however! Any further bad karma you do by not keeping your promises can and will “kill the Guru”. Which isn’t very nice if you think about it. Some do not need a Guru, but typically they have so little karma that is why. But I think you might have a lot of karma. So it will be difficult, sort of like having oil in your milk. Good luck. Now, another thing is, in some Murtis (I noted them earlier), there are not just Divine(s). There is Guru(s). Saints, devotees, too. The world is stranger than known. The “chain” of life and love and devotion and experience goes WAY back. You are not alone.

This is coming from a "Village Hindu". So I didn't speak much about fancy things.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram shiva fan ji

amongst many fine points this I particularly like ....

There is Guru(s). Saints, devotees, too. The world is stranger than known. The “chain” of life and love and devotion and experience goes WAY back. You are not alone.

it canot be stressed enough that the Guru is to be revered not as an individual being but as a representative of an age old liniage .
in this day of independance there is a sad tendancy to resent any authority , this we do at our peril lest that we loose all understanding of the supreme and the correct way to apporoch him .

one point I think important which is raised in the original post and that is of charity , ...the question of whether we should be devoting so much time energy and money towards the worship of god , when there is so much material need in this world ?
here we need to find a ballance , we need to attend equaly to our spiritual wellbeing and our physical being , ...to worship God alone without attending to the temporary needs of mankind would be forgetting that God resides in the Heart of all beings .

to me becoming closer to God through the mercy of the Guru and through the Supreme in his deity form is to become Human as it teaches one to respect the supreme at the heart of all beings .

 

[chinu]

Ok Finally I am out of beliefs which I have been seeing since I was born. Don't take these as jokes or foolish, If you got answer then just let me know or else pass! No offense I am really interested in knowing this. I am not against any God or religion.

[1] God is the one who made us.
Q.: Where is he, I cant see!
Ans: Gravity creeated earth. Can you see gravity ? Thus.. it not always possible to see creators, or supreme-creator.

[2] God is like our mother and father!
Q. Why God need a different house, place out of our home.
Ans: The whole universe is "God's" house. He is present in each and every room of his house like a SPACE.

Q: why he need money,
Ans: If needed, he can create anything of its own, He need not any human effort.

Q: Why he need bigger and bigger house!??
Ans: As already said above.. The whole universe is "God's" house/residence. He is present in each and every room of his house like a SPACE.

Q: Why he need "managers" who work for them and managee "properties"
Ans: Because he always want to remain in the blissful state of affair.

Q As far as I know Lord Shiva even don't wear proper clothes and live in a mountain!!
Ans: Lord Shiva isn't supreme God/power. He's lower God/power. Or, in other words lord Shiva is one out of the many managing-power created by supreme-God to control the work of his creation. Like.. humans created different dress codes and offices/places for different people on duty like..Police, Doctor, Army etc. Similarly.. God created different dress codes and places for his different managers/officers.
BTW, for your kind information let me also tell you that, Lord Shiva doesn't wear such clothes and live in mountains, in reality. Truly, reality is very away from the limits of human-mind to imagine/visualize. So Its all just the prototypes/examples set for human mind to understand them.

[3] For God everybody is same!
Q.: Why there are religions, like Hindu, Muslims, Christian.. I really cant understand this thing. Even there are more castes in religion, which divide people more.
Ans: Its all not created by God. Its the creation of human-mind.

[4] God need dedication
Q.: Fine! Why he need it in form of money or labor! Q: Have you remember any day that your father and mother need money to make them happy? They will be happy if YOU are happy! If you are doing good!
Ans: God doesn't need human dedication/sacrifice in any case except the case when someone want salvation/moksha/enlightenment. In this case God need dedication so that "God" may know that one do not doubt the existence of God and Loves God more than his/her Body, Mind and Money.
Otherwise, of course like our parents God is happy when we are happy, or if we are doing good.

[5] Why worship a human?
Ok God is unseen so we are worshiping now humans.. Who claimed that they have either seen God or have got their blessings.. come on.. We need to check what good they have done for the human being.. Why we call them "God" themselves.. this is really shocking!
Ans: Worshiping any human as a God is your fault. There's nothing to blame God if you are doing so

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ans: Lord Shiva isn't supreme God/power. He's lower God/power. Or, in other words lord Shiva is one out of the many managing-power created by supreme-God to control the work of his creation.

Chinu, Hinduism DIR is blue and you are transgressing the line.

 

[chinu]

Chinu, Hinduism DIR is blue and you are transgressing the line.

Question for you here, Aupmanyav.

Supreme-God means the entity on which the whole human-race have equal right because he is God, and he is for everyone. Thus, the entity which is personal and on which the whole human-race cannot have equal right cannot be addressed as Supreme-God. Am I right ?

Now, by showing me the DIR borderline, why are you withdrawing the right of Lord-Shiva of being Supreme-God ? Isn't that against DIR ? tell me.