Having Children and my thoughts on why people are deciding not too.

[bobhikes]

I have been following the birth rate for years now. The main consensus is that cost is the main problem but yet government programs to reduce the cost in certain countries doesn't help, another complaint is that people don't have a good feeling for the future, but I also don't see that as a problem.

I believe the problem is value. Children are no longer valuable assets. What I mean is that you originally produced offspring for extra workers and extra income due to societal changes that is no longer allowed. Children were also pretty much free range open the doors and let them off until diner or a family function, again due to societal changes this is at best frowned upon at worst can land you in jail. Parents today to be considered good have to be involved in their children's lives. When I went to the park to play you very rarely saw parents, today for each kid there is a parent and if the kid is alone for a while they will be questioned by a parent. Lastly cost and I'm not talking schooling and homes but just average play. I had match box cars, whiffle ball and bat or stick bat, kick ball and Jaxs plus many board games none of it costing over 5 dollars. Today you need to by a specific baseball bat, electronic games, cell phones none of it less than 50 dollars and a cell phone is monthly. Because they are no longer free range you need to pay someone to watch them. Society has also changed in what's expected for raising them whereas during my youth it was stay out of trouble and graduate high school and maybe attend college. Today its make sure they enjoy their youth by putting them in all these different clubs, get them therapy for all the troubles they face and a bachelor's degree a minimum requirement.

So, I am not saying the societal changes are wrong, I am saying they have reduced the value in having children and I don't see the changes going backwards so I don't see the birth rate ever improving in fact believe it will continue to get worse. They'll point the poor nations having higher birth rates stating the cost being the problem but if you look at the societal standards for children in those counties you will see they are much lower as well.

Other things causing the issue
Religious Values reduced
Teen pregnancy reduced
Marriage Ages increased

Your thoughts

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Children are no longer valuable assets

Children have not been "valuable assets" since the demise of the primarily agrarian society. Far more impactful has been the erosion of the nuclear family, which at least served to mitigate the economic strain imposed by large families.

 

[Pawpatrol]

Yes, and nowadays people go about raising their children quite poorly.

Lots of people describe the baby and toddler years as "living hell", and it is largely because they make the child the center of their life. They leave their work "just to be with the child". They leave their hobbies, friends and everything they like to "put the child first". And after the child grows and sees all the "sacrifices" she made, she might think the child will be greatful, but actually the child might be resentful. Few people like for anyone to make such sacrifices for them.

The worst is perhaps that parents don't include their children in their actual life. They seclude them in kindergartens where they aren't needed. They "just play". They go home where they also aren't needed, (because parents don't give their kids jobs to do at home) and they "just play".

 

[F1fan]

Numerous of my male friends that have kids have told me that if they could do things differently they wouldn't have kids. Many of my friends with kids explain that being a parent is vastly different today than when we were kids. The cost of having kids has inctreased a lot as well. Just the fees for a child to go to a public school has risen over the last few decades, much due to cuts in federal funding to schools, and the added costs to schools because of technology, and the need to build new buildings. The basic cost of living has become massive. Just the costs to own technology and buy services is a burden. Imagine three kids who all want cell phones. Compare that to life 40 years ago when a second home phone line was $12 a month and the phone was free. Of course the kids had to fight over who got the phone.

One of my firneds is a single mom with two kids, one who has Down's Syndrome. She makes $90K a year and gets child support, but can barely make ends meet. Even with state programs that help with her son she is tapped out. Her life is not very good, and she tries to keep her head aove it all.

My best friend had two daughters and for the last 20 years we haven't spent much time together. He has been a totally devoted dad, and he is good with that obligation. One daughter went to college this year and the other will go in two years, and he looks forward to being able to do the things he hasn't had time for after that.

It's hard to know what to expect with having kids until you're having one. I think society has changed a lot since the 1960's and there's less obligation to have kids.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm not going to go into the reasons why I refuse to be a breeder, but the fact that I refer to those who have children as "breeders" should give you some idea. I would literally rather die than be a breeder. Raising a kid that already exists in this world, that's fine.

 

[Kathryn]

Both my daughters have four kids and both my sons have zero kids. So I have seen both extremes. Also, I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s so I have that perspective too.

Kids are a lot more expensive than they used to be, and other than in an agrarian society, they were never a "break even" item, let alone an asset financially. And the infant mortality rate was higher as was the maternal mortality rate.

My oldest son has been married for ten years and they have no desire to have kids. Both my daughters stay home with their kids. One homeschools in fact. So they really run the gamut. My youngest son is not married yet and I am glad he doesn't have any kids but in some ways I'd like my oldest son to have at least one child but maybe not. It's not a big deal to me but it would be if I didn't have grandkids by my daughters. Still, it's their business, not mine. So they choose not to have kids? Hey, I am just glad they are still married!

 

[PureX]

I have been following the birth rate for years now. The main consensus is that cost is the main problem but yet government programs to reduce the cost in certain countries doesn't help, another complaint is that people don't have a good feeling for the future, but I also don't see that as a problem.

I believe the problem is value. Children are no longer valuable assets. What I mean is that you originally produced offspring for extra workers and extra income due to societal changes that is no longer allowed. Children were also pretty much free range open the doors and let them off until diner or a family function, again due to societal changes this is at best frowned upon at worst can land you in jail. Parents today to be considered good have to be involved in their children's lives. When I went to the park to play you very rarely saw parents, today for each kid there is a parent and if the kid is alone for a while they will be questioned by a parent. Lastly cost and I'm not talking schooling and homes but just average play. I had match box cars, whiffle ball and bat or stick bat, kick ball and Jaxs plus many board games none of it costing over 5 dollars. Today you need to by a specific baseball bat, electronic games, cell phones none of it less than 50 dollars and a cell phone is monthly. Because they are no longer free range you need to pay someone to watch them. Society has also changed in what's expected for raising them whereas during my youth it was stay out of trouble and graduate high school and maybe attend college. Today its make sure they enjoy their youth by putting them in all these different clubs, get them therapy for all the troubles they face and a bachelor's degree a minimum requirement.

So, I am not saying the societal changes are wrong, I am saying they have reduced the value in having children and I don't see the changes going backwards so I don't see the birth rate ever improving in fact believe it will continue to get worse. They'll point the poor nations having higher birth rates stating the cost being the problem but if you look at the societal standards for children in those counties you will see they are much lower as well.

Other things causing the issue
Religious Values reduced
Teen pregnancy reduced
Marriage Ages increased

Your thoughts

Most of this would appear to be a positive, to me. We do not need higher birth rates. We do not need more humans on the planet. And we do need the ones that are here to be smarter, and wiser, and far more socially and collectively oriented.

 

[Esteban X]

I have been following the birth rate for years now. The main consensus is that cost is the main problem but yet government programs to reduce the cost in certain countries doesn't help, another complaint is that people don't have a good feeling for the future, but I also don't see that as a problem.

I believe the problem is value. Children are no longer valuable assets. What I mean is that you originally produced offspring for extra workers and extra income due to societal changes that is no longer allowed. Children were also pretty much free range open the doors and let them off until diner or a family function, again due to societal changes this is at best frowned upon at worst can land you in jail. Parents today to be considered good have to be involved in their children's lives. When I went to the park to play you very rarely saw parents, today for each kid there is a parent and if the kid is alone for a while they will be questioned by a parent. Lastly cost and I'm not talking schooling and homes but just average play. I had match box cars, whiffle ball and bat or stick bat, kick ball and Jaxs plus many board games none of it costing over 5 dollars. Today you need to by a specific baseball bat, electronic games, cell phones none of it less than 50 dollars and a cell phone is monthly. Because they are no longer free range you need to pay someone to watch them. Society has also changed in what's expected for raising them whereas during my youth it was stay out of trouble and graduate high school and maybe attend college. Today its make sure they enjoy their youth by putting them in all these different clubs, get them therapy for all the troubles they face and a bachelor's degree a minimum requirement.

So, I am not saying the societal changes are wrong, I am saying they have reduced the value in having children and I don't see the changes going backwards so I don't see the birth rate ever improving in fact believe it will continue to get worse. They'll point the poor nations having higher birth rates stating the cost being the problem but if you look at the societal standards for children in those counties you will see they are much lower as well.

Other things causing the issue
Religious Values reduced
Teen pregnancy reduced
Marriage Ages increased

Your thoughts

How is it a "problem"?

 

[Revoltingest]

Worry not about procreation.
JD Vance will fix it with his "War On Childless Cat Ladies".

JD Vance In 2021: 'We Have To Go To War' Against Idea Women Don't Have To Have Kids

“You're going to be a sad, lonely, pathetic person” if you support women prioritizing their careers over making babies, said Trump’s vice presidential pick.

www.huffpost.com

I'll tell ya...it's hard to make parody or satire
when the candidates themselves say this
stupid crap with sincerity & seriousness.
I think my lucky stars that Randy Rainbow
rises to the occasion. He's the modern
Tom Lehrer.

BTW, Randy Rainbow is his given name,
not a stage name. What are the odds, eh.

 

[icehorse]

Your thoughts

We have two grown daughters who will most likely not have kids.

One key reason is that they don't want to bring kids into a dystopian, mad-max world, and I think their concerns are quite well founded.

The other thing is that they understand that population explosion is a huge contributor to the world's problems.

 

[Revoltingest]

The other thing is that they understand that population explosion is a huge contributor to the world's problems.

That's my view.

 

[JustGeorge]

I suspect this will just be another issue to turn everyone against each other as years go on, sadly.

Those choosing to go without will look down on those choosing to start families as being less than, the root of the world's problems(generally speaking).

Those choosing to do so will look at those abstaining as thwarting natural order, being sticks in the mud(generally speaking).

 

[PureX]

I suspect this will just be another issue to turn everyone against each other as years go on, sadly.

Those choosing to go without will look down on those choosing to start families as being less than, the root of the world's problems(generally speaking).

Those choosing to do so will look at those abstaining as thwarting natural order, being sticks in the mud(generally speaking).

Sooner or later, (it's already later,) we are finally going to realize that the people exploiting us for their own selfish gain are deliberately setting us against each other using any means they and their whoring political and media blowhards can muster. And when that happens, we will finally stop blaming each other for all our problems and start looking at the real culprits. And there will finally be a day or reckoning. I won't live to see it, but it will happen. Because their greed is bottomless, and will not stop, while our collective selfishness and stupidity will eventually force us to wake TFU and face our real tormentors.

 

[JustGeorge]

Sooner or later, (it's already later,) we are finally going to realize that the people exploiting us for their own selfish gain are deliberately setting us against each other using any means they and their whoring political and media blowhards can muster. And when that happens, we will finally stop blaming each other for all our problems and start looking at the real culprits. And there will finally be a day or reckoning. I won't live to see it, but it will happen. Because their greed is bottomless, and will not stop, while our collective selfishness and stupidity will eventually force us to wake TFU and face our real tormentors.

I probably won't live to see it, either.

 

[Tamino]

I think it comes down to choice. I have not kids because that's a choice that was available to me.

Without access to contraception and a big social pressure towards motherhood, a lot of women don't really get to choose whether they want kids or not.
I would probably have several running around if I had been born a few decades earlier.

So, educate women, give them opportunities in life outside of motherhood and give them access to family planning - that's a pretty safe method to reduce birth rates.
I hope it catches on more globally, we're horribly over-populated right now.

 

[Wandering Monk]

We have two grown daughters who will most likely not have kids.

One key reason is that they don't want to bring kids into a dystopian, mad-max world, and I think their concerns are quite well founded.

The other thing is that they understand that population explosion is a huge contributor to the world's problems.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yes, and nowadays people go about raising their children quite poorly.

Lots of people describe the baby and toddler years as "living hell", and it is largely because they make the child the center of their life. They leave their work "just to be with the child". They leave their hobbies, friends and everything they like to "put the child first". And after the child grows and sees all the "sacrifices" she made, she might think the child will be greatful, but actually the child might be resentful. Few people like for anyone to make such sacrifices for them.

The worst is perhaps that parents don't include their children in their actual life. They seclude them in kindergartens where they aren't needed. They "just play". They go home where they also aren't needed, (because parents don't give their kids jobs to do at home) and they "just play".

One of the worse things is when a single parents wage could no longer support an entire family and the mother couldn't no longer stay and rear her children full time resulting in the pandemic of latchkey children. The notion of housewife became vilified and now this is the result.

 

[anna.]

I'm not going to go into the reasons why I refuse to be a breeder, but the fact that I refer to those who have children as "breeders" should give you some idea. I would literally rather die than be a breeder. Raising a kid that already exists in this world, that's fine.

It gives me some idea, yes, and it's disappointing to see you use such a pejorative term for people who have children.

 

[JustGeorge]

One of the worse things is when a single parents wage could no longer support an entire family and the mother couldn't no longer stay and rear her children full time resulting in the pandemic of latchkey children. The notion of housewife became vilified and now this is the result.

It can be done(our family does this), but we sure as hell can't keep up with the Jones'. A lot of thought and planning goes into needs and wants, though.

But yeah, the role is vilified sometimes. For some, once they find out my vocation(housewife, but I prefer domestic engineer), they don't treat me as an equal.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It can be done(our family does this), but we sure as hell can't keep up with the Jones'. A lot of thought and planning goes into needs and wants, though.

But yeah, the role is vilified sometimes. For some, once they find out my vocation(housewife, but I prefer domestic engineer), they don't treat me as an equal.

I find housewife to be a fine good position. It shows real love and dedication to one's children and a mother meant something back in the day. Careers came after the kids grew up and on their own.