Having Children and my thoughts on why people are deciding not too.

[anna.]

I'm just being honest. I can actually do that here as opposed to need to pretend I'm ever excited or happy about adding more humans to an already overpopulated species that's responsible for a sixth mass extinction and global scale ecological genocide.

I'm happy for someone's happiness in these matters, though not for the cause of it if that makes sense. I've had coworkers decide to be breeders and if that's what they wanna do and it that's how they find joy and purpose - I can respect that. Hell, I deeply respect that. But dang if I'm not aggravated that humans have opted primarily for the death rate solution. Ecosystems resolve species overpopulation in only two ways - reduced birth rates, or increased death rates. I'd like to think pretty much everybody would find reducing birth rates to be a lot less painful and ugly (because it is).

I'm being honest too. If you object to pejoratives for other groups, why is your pejorative for me somehow okay?

I can be happy for those who decide not to have children and respect their reasons why without using a pejorative for them.

Birthrates are already reducing, we're below replacement levels in many countries. Someone posted a graph to that effect, I could give you the same information from the United Nations, but you're highly educated in your field, so I expect you know this already. I grieve what we've done to the earth in the last 200 years and I do what I can personally to mitigate my own path, but we as a species need to reproduce to survive just like any other species, and there's no way I would ever support the idea of an intentional human extinction.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

having-children-and-my-thoughts-on-why-people-are-deciding-not-to

Reasons to not have children in 2024:

• You don't like their company. They're noisy, they fight, and if defiant, can make their lives and yours a living hell. You really have to want to be with them. And when a little older, then comes the call from the police. Many don't like being near an ill-behaved small child in a restaurant, where ill-behaved means crying, screaming, running around, or making a huge mess on the floor and probably shouldn't be parents.
• They cramp one's lifestyle. You'll be vacationing less, eating out less, seeing fewer concerts, buying sensible cars (no Miata for you) etc. Instead, it's braces, school supplies, new shoes every year, and soccer practice.
• The world seems to be going authoritarian. Will they be free and happy? What will these people do to the rest using AI or the surveillance state?
• Global warming. This is a big one. I see a terrible future for the next several decades. It'll take money to be able to live in a safe and comfortable place and maybe even to get potable water. Expect political instability and massive climate migrations, crop failures, and famine. And expect whatever children you put into that world to resent you for ruining the world and then letting them loose in it.
• I know too many people whose kids won't talk to them, and many don't know why.

 

[Alien826]

Reasons to not have children in 2024:

• You don't like their company. They're noisy, they fight, and if defiant, can make their lives and yours a living hell. You really have to want to be with them. And when a little older, then comes the call from the police. Many don't like being near an ill-behaved small child in a restaurant, where ill-behaved means crying, screaming, running around, or making a huge mess on the floor and probably shouldn't be parents.

All parents believe everyone else thinks that their children are as charming as they do. That's any year.

• They cramp one's lifestyle. You'll be vacationing less, eating out less, seeing fewer concerts, buying sensible cars (no Miata for you) etc. Instead, it's braces, school supplies, new shoes every year, and soccer practice.

Yup. You didn't mention a dramatically reduced sex life.

• The world seems to be going authoritarian. Will they be free and happy? What will these people do to the rest using AI or the surveillance state?

Right.

• Global warming. This is a big one. I see a terrible future for the next several decades. It'll take money to be able to live in a safe and comfortable place and maybe even to get potable water. Expect political instability and massive climate migrations, crop failures, and famine. And expect whatever children you put into that world to resent you for ruining the world and then letting them loose in it.

You bet.

• I know too many people whose kids won't talk to them, and many don't know why.

I'm one.

Thanks for adding some balance to an overly sickly sweet thread.

<Dons flame proof suit.>

 

[JustGeorge]

Thanks for adding some balance to an overly sickly sweet thread.

<Dons flame proof suit.>

This is sickly sweet?

I know who I won't be asking to make me dessert...

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I have been following the birth rate for years now. The main consensus is that cost is the main problem but yet government programs to reduce the cost in certain countries doesn't help, another complaint is that people don't have a good feeling for the future, but I also don't see that as a problem.

In western countries, it occurred to me the other day that the birth rate might be down due to pessimistic reflection on history. I mean if you think hard about the standard books that they had us read in high school english class, and it's not that they are bad books, but might it be that they could lead some to have anti-natalist conclusions.

And I mean, just look at what happened in the last century. Think about all the wars, and social strife. That's gotta be why we've had less kids, to some degree

I believe the problem is value. Children are no longer valuable assets. What I mean is that you originally produced offspring for extra workers and extra income due to societal changes that is no longer allowed.

I am the at the point in my life, being almost 40, that's it's looking like I'm not going to have any. I would argue that they do have potential value, but a big part of the problem is that I would not know how to make them have value, to make them be useful, effective, and socially integrated people, that would help watch over me when I'm old. But no, I wouldn't need 10 of them to help me hunt mammoths or something

Even if I could afford to have one, I'd still be at a major loss on how to raise them. But I do think they could potentially have value, I mean don't we all know what a successful person looks like? Or is that a lot more subjective now, or was it always subjective. I also would be afraid of having a kid that became anti-social. I wouldn't know what to do in that case, at all.

Parents today to be considered good have to be involved in their children's lives.

Ideally they should be in a positive way, don't you think? I wouldn't know how to do that. My dad was a pretty bad alcoholic, till health issues forced him to quit. And he doesn't even really admit that. But I go for hikes and drives with him now at least, but he's getting old. When I was a kid though, I really didn't get any guidance from dad, and I could have used it. I could go on for a while about the complicated relationship I have with him, but it would go on too long

 

[amorphous_constellation]

And just one more note though, I believe population replacement rates are dynamic. They can bounce back, when conditions return. But very often when people talk about birthrates being low, they talk about it dire terms. Like, Japan has a 'massive problem' or something, because of this, but no I don't think so. Maybe economists want to promote the opinion that it's a big problem, but I think gdp might only temporarily go down. But I think birthrate can naturally return to replacement in a country, it's just that the economy isn't so 'great' unless there is constant growth

And for those who say 'who will pay for the retirees?' if there isn't enough of a tax base. Maybe just have socialism for them, with buying points that only they can use each month. I don't know

 

[Twilight Hue]

Reasons to not have children in 2024:

• You don't like their company. They're noisy, they fight, and if defiant, can make their lives and yours a living hell. You really have to want to be with them. And when a little older, then comes the call from the police. Many don't like being near an ill-behaved small child in a restaurant, where ill-behaved means crying, screaming, running around, or making a huge mess on the floor and probably shouldn't be parents.
• They cramp one's lifestyle. You'll be vacationing less, eating out less, seeing fewer concerts, buying sensible cars (no Miata for you) etc. Instead, it's braces, school supplies, new shoes every year, and soccer practice.
• The world seems to be going authoritarian. Will they be free and happy? What will these people do to the rest using AI or the surveillance state?
• Global warming. This is a big one. I see a terrible future for the next several decades. It'll take money to be able to live in a safe and comfortable place and maybe even to get potable water. Expect political instability and massive climate migrations, crop failures, and famine. And expect whatever children you put into that world to resent you for ruining the world and then letting them loose in it.
• I know too many people whose kids won't talk to them, and many don't know why.

Also don't forget having psychopath children who kill their own families. A good reason not to have children as well.

I watch too much Mr. Ballen.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Not only the value in having children was reduced. Also the value of marriage - having a lasting, faithful and loving relationship...

In the US the main reason people won’t have kids is NOT money, state of the world or environment. They just don’t want to (for no reason?). Or they want to focus on other things.

1. Reasons adults give for not having children

The top reason cited by adults 50 and older without kids is that it just never happened. Adults ages 18 to 49 are most likely to say they just don’t want kids.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[PearlSeeker]

Marriage and not having children

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What's with the emphasis on getting kids a cell phone? Don't. It's not good for their development, they shouldn't be having them.

It shows real love and dedication to one's children and a mother meant something back in the day.

No more or less than mine showed.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

One of the worse things is when a single parents wage could no longer support an entire family and the mother couldn't no longer stay and rear her children full time resulting in the pandemic of latchkey children. The notion of housewife became vilified and now this is the result.

Ans by the way, that has never been true. Those fortunate enough to have a sufficient enough income could, just as they can today. Think my grandparents had it that easy? My grandma worked just like my mom.

 

[Pawpatrol]

Not only the value in having children was reduced. Also the value of marriage - having a lasting, faithful and loving relationship...

In the US the main reason people won’t have kids is NOT money, state of the world or environment. They just don’t want to (for no reason?). Or they want to focus on other things.

1. Reasons adults give for not having children

The top reason cited by adults 50 and older without kids is that it just never happened. Adults ages 18 to 49 are most likely to say they just don’t want kids.

www.pewresearch.org

And in western welfare countries where money isn't really an issue, the birth rates have dropped just the same.

I've heard tons of mothers say, after only getting through the first year or two with their first, "I just can't do it all again."

Kids are a lot of work. You'd think those people would turn out real loving to their own parents after their "enlightenment", but nope, off to the home for the elderlies they go. Out of sight out of mind.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think that the 90% of people become parents because they had unprotected sex.
It's not really a choice.
It happens and parents accept it.

The remaining 10% is an insignificant number that explains why in the past almost all people used to become parents.
Now...most people, gen Z, especially are childfree.

Cheap contraception

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

the role is vilified sometimes. For some, once they find out my vocation(housewife, but I prefer domestic engineer), they don't treat me as an equal.

Really? Who does that? Other women? Men? Both?

As you know, we elected to go childless in large part because neither of us enjoys the company of kids and we had no nesting instinct.

But we know many who do, and who love the company of children. We don't disesteem them.

Nor stay-at-home moms (SAHMs).

If you're still receiving fallout from the feminist movement of the 60s and 70s, when conventional roles for women were being challenged, that's unfortunate. The movement was about enabling women whatever their preference - career or SAHM with children.

 

[JustGeorge]

Really? Who does that? Other women? Men? Both?

As you know, we elected to go childless in large part because neither of us enjoys the company of kids and we had no nesting instinct.

But we know many who do, and who love the company of children. We don't disesteem them.

Nor stay-at-home moms (SAHMs).

If you're still receiving fallout from the feminist movement of the 60s and 70s, when conventional roles for women were being challenged, that's unfortunate. The movement was about enabling women whatever their preference - career or SAHM with children.

Its most commonly women under 50, I'd say, that I get this attitude from.

When I left my job, I had a few women who weren't rude about it at all, but said something akin to "I wish I could do that, but I don't feel its culturally appropriate any more."

Very seldom do I get commentary from men on it. Older women(50+) are almost always supportive, even if their path was very different.

 

[Pawpatrol]

Really? Who does that? Other women? Men? Both?

It's other women. I think they're jealous.

Feminism is all about women being "just as good as" men —> just as good to go to work and earn their living —> just as deserving to be "free" <— most men wouldn't go to work at all if they had a choice.

Some women feel somehow superior with all their money and "independence", but at the same time have a kind of longing to do that traditional role. But how could they — they'd lose their glamorous independence and besides, where are they going to find a man to support (them)?

Some women look confused and say, "so you don't do anything?"

 

[JustGeorge]

It's other women. I think they're jealous.

Feminism is all about women being "just as good as" men —> just as good to go to work and earn their living —> just as deserving to be "free" <— most men wouldn't go to work at all if they had a choice.

Some women feel somehow superior with all their money and "independence", but at the same time have a kind of longing to do that traditional role. But how could they — they'd lose their glamorous independence and besides, where are they going to find a man to support (them)?

Some women look confused and say, "so you don't do anything?"

I did have a man say that to me once... A doctor I had to see for something.

I told my dad and he let out a huge belly laugh and said "Leave him with [your son] for an hour! He'll die!"