Hawkins

[Revoltingest]

I've been ignoring this thread cuz I didn't know who "Hawkins" is. A better title would help.

 

[Quiddity]

I've been ignoring this thread cuz I didn't know who "Hawkins" is. A better title would help.

He corrected himself in the thread already.

 

[PolyHedral]

And you're not going to see the correction unless you've read the thread, and you won't read the thread if the title is meaningless.

 

[Revoltingest]

And you're not going to see the correction unless you've read the thread, and you won't read the thread if the title is meaningless.

Yoo got dat right!

 

[Quiddity]

And you're not going to see the correction unless you've read the thread, and you won't read the thread if the title is meaningless.

You could have fooled me with that.

 

[Meow Mix]

The other is if the universe itself is rotating, the universal law of conservation of angular momentum demands that if there was a big bang (Expansion) its precursor was also rotating. Hence the possible scenario of an oscillating universe with no beginning or end hence no need for a creator as all this stuff (the universe) has always and will always, just exists, Simple really.

Cheers

The universe is not rotating in any significant way as shown by cosmic microwave background anisotropies, which demonstrate isotropy and homogeny. I mean it "could" be possible in the sense that MANY things are possible, but it's extremely unlikely.

It's actually been checked out for a while because there are consistent relativistic solutions of a rotating universe but we do NOT readily find any of those characteristics in our studies of the cosmos so far.

 

[Meow Mix]

I guess I was looking at it this way: the guy accelerating perceives his loss of knowledge about the universe as an increase in entropy...so I imagined a world where the effect wasn't true and you have a decrease in entropy while accelerating. I just illustrated the system by thinking of the entropy of coin flipping.

Oh! I get what you mean. However that wouldn't really be the case because even if the coins all came up heads it would still be a loss of information behind a horizon, and you'd still end up with heat.

Uuuhhh... it's kind of like if you imagine an engine with a piston that moves back and forth -- but you suddenly get a cosmological horizon halfway along the track so that all you can see is the piston; you'd suddenly lose a lot of information about the system.

In fact Unruh radiation is exactly like Hawking radiation because cosmological horizons are exactly like event horizons.

 

[Autodidact]

And yet I don't understand what you're talking about. That makes me feel like I've wasted my entire life up to now. I've got to find a way to educate myself better.

And Smoke's ahead of me, so I feel pretty ignorant.

 

[Skwim]

The universe is not rotating in any significant way as shown by cosmic microwave background anisotropies, which demonstrate isotropy and homogeny. I mean it "could" be possible in the sense that MANY things are possible, but it's extremely unlikely.

But what would be the point of reference by which such rotation could be determined?

What would the universe revolve in relation to?

 

[Reptillian]

Jesus was angry with the fact that the religious leaders of the day had allowed the Temple to be used as a market place rather than keeping it strictly for religious worship and practices. He wasn't simply railing against "these modern people who hoard wealth by preying upon people's beliefs" though I'm sure some of the participants in the Temple market were guilty of exactly that.

And yes - these mega churches and televangelists and pastors who make $400,000 a year from the tithes of those of their congregation who live off disability or social security - they will have to answer for this sacrilege.

I may not be a religious person, but I've always rather liked Jesus. Seems like my kinda guy. Another religious figure I've always liked is Confucius. Particularly I like his view that the wise/moral man isn't some mystic who sits on a mountaintop all detached from the world, but he lives amongst the people and works to improve their lives.

Oh! I get what you mean. However that wouldn't really be the case because even if the coins all came up heads it would still be a loss of information behind a horizon, and you'd still end up with heat.

Uuuhhh... it's kind of like if you imagine an engine with a piston that moves back and forth -- but you suddenly get a cosmological horizon halfway along the track so that all you can see is the piston; you'd suddenly lose a lot of information about the system.

In fact Unruh radiation is exactly like Hawking radiation because cosmological horizons are exactly like event horizons.

So Unruh radiation is just a form of Hawking radiation?...interesting way of thinking about it. And all this ties into blackbody radiation...I love it when things like thermodynamics and cosmology come together!

But what would be the point of reference by which such rotation could be determined?

What would the universe revolve in relation to?

Aye, thats what was bugging me too...so I decided to pull out the old text book and find out how this problem was reconciled. I guess the rotation would have some observable effects on the behavior of objects travelling through spacetime. The "rotation of the universe" is measured in terms of the motion of things lying within the universe.

Still though, the rotating universe solution seems to allow time travel into the past...and even if our universe doesn't appear to satisfy this solution, it is a little disturbing to think that general relativity would allow such a thing in principle.

 

[Meow Mix]

But what would be the point of reference by which such rotation could be determined?

What would the universe revolve in relation to?

It's just like the geometry of a rotating orange peel with dots on it... except at relativistic speeds. You'd need noncommutative geometry and probably topos theory to do it (because you don't have an external perspective).

Honestly I don't understand it well enough to explain it, I just know that we don't find evidence of it from what physicists do know about it.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Albert Einstein

I'm not even sure I could explain the maths for such a thing, which I'm only learning myself... loops strings and fields for the win, baby!

 

[JustWondering]

I'll tell ya what - you read the accounts in the gospels of Jesus in the Temple, and get back with me. We can discuss this then.

How does Jesus go from turning the other cheek to flipping tables? Honestly? Also, how does that justify a Christians bad behavior?

 

[AxisMundi]

I love human nature. I thought the message of Jesus was to love your neighbors, spread peace, be tolerant, and win nonbelievers over with kindness. Yet after a story about Hawking was posted on Yahoo Christians immediately start bashing and insulting Hawking and anyone who does not agree with their beliefs. Ironic, don't you think?

Where you been?

It's business as usual for the crowd who would burn Hawking at the stake, chair and all, had secular law not preempted the Church.

 

[Kathryn]

How does Jesus go from turning the other cheek to flipping tables? Honestly? Also, how does that justify a Christians bad behavior?

You still haven't read the story in the Gospel have you? Just use Google and do it - quit fighting it. It will be a lot easier to discuss with you if you'll just do that one little thing.

And quit twisting my words. I never said nor implied that Jesus throwing the merchants out of the temple in any way validates or excuses bad behavior in anyone. What I said was that this example shows us that a certain level of anger and actions based on that anger can be appropriate at times.

Sometimes anger that is based in truth is what gives us the strength to do things like, for instance, overthrow tyranny, protect our families, fight for the rights of others - all those noble, necessary things and more.

 

[Herr Heinrich]

And yet I don't understand what you're talking about. That makes me feel like I've wasted my entire life up to now. I've got to find a way to educate myself better.

Aren't you a Poli-Sci degree holder? I am sure you know much more about political science than they do. Just like one day I will probably know more about Psychology. We should all put our heads together and form a Super Atheist League. SAL for short. I think we would need to go kidnap M-Sizer though. He would be needed.

 

[Meow Mix]

Aren't you a Poli-Sci degree holder? I am sure you know much more about political science than they do. Just like one day I will probably know more about Psychology. We should all put our heads together and form a Super Atheist League. SAL for short. I think we would need to go kidnap M-Sizer though. He would be needed.

No! We must call it the Atheist Alliance!!!! Die, heathen!!!

(For those who don't get it, this is a reference to South Park's "Go God Go" episode(s))

 

[JustWondering]

Sometimes anger that is based in truth is what gives us the strength to do things like, for instance, overthrow tyranny, protect our families, fight for the rights of others - all those noble, necessary things and more.

Thats not what was adressed in the OP. Hawking stated he did not believe God created the universe. He is not a tyrannt, nor did he threaten or even say anything insulting about anyone. Yet Christians immediately start calling him names, call him arrogant and even gleefully proclaim they can't wait to see him roast in hell. Is this behavior Jesus would condone?

 

[PolyHedral]

Well, he said that he believed that God did not create the universe and was unnecessary, so I can see where the pitchforks came from.

 

[JustWondering]

Well, he said that he believed that God did not create the universe and was unnecessary, so I can see where the pitchforks came from.

Freedom of religion in America is not a new thing. Freedom of speech is not a new thing. People saying they do not believe in God is not new either. So why so much hate from American Christian's over this? Seriously? Do they really feel that threatened by Hawking's beliefs?

 

[AxisMundi]

Freedom of religion in America is not a new thing. Freedom of speech is not a new thing. People saying they do not believe in God is not new either. So why so much hate from American Christian's over this? Seriously? Do they really feel that threatened by Hawking's beliefs?

Why, it's getting close to elections, don't you know.

The time when our fundies come out of the woodwork to howl about everything and anything so they can look like a viable voting block that should be catered to.