Health Care and the US Elections

[TagliatelliMonster]

And the wealthy don't go to public hospitals, for sure.

They do over here.
There are a very small number of private hospitals, where you pay a non-refundable premium as they resemble 5* hotels more then hospitals though
But the thing is... the best professionals actually don't work there... They work in the public hospitals, which are generally closely affiliated with the best universities in the country.

Your meal might not be from an "a la carte" menu prepared by a michelin-graded chef. But your doctor will be among the best the country can provide.

 

[Stevicus]

Well the bottom line of anything including Healthcare is that somebody has to pay for it.

So I'm actually curious what socialized medicine has done to the economies of those governments that bear the brunt of the costs and how it is unavoidable to experience extreme corruption at the government level that makes Healthcare even more expensive and not cheaper with the 'free' label attached. The reality of socialized medicine is that healthy people pay for the sick people and as long as healthy people outnumber the sick people you'll be fine with such a system until of course, you get more sick people than healthy people.

That's what my fear on socialized medicine is is that one day it's going to implode at some point in time.

A healthy workforce is a productive workforce. For much the same reason, we have socialized police departments because of the obvious benefits to society. True, someone has to pay for it, but the consequences of not doing so can lead to a much higher payment that can't be avoided.

 

[Altfish]

One fear is that government would make private
care illegal, leaving the government system the
only one available. That was Hillary's plan back
during their "co-presidency" (Bill's term, not mine).
As long as we're allowed a Plan B, I'm good with
single payer health care.

Why would they do that? We have a National Health Service in the UK; but if you want to pay, to jump queues, etc, you can do.

 

[Estro Felino]

Why would they do that? We have a National Health Service in the UK; but if you want to pay, to jump queues, etc, you can do.

Unfortunately for the remainers, the NHS is what convinced the British people to vote for Brexit.

I mean...if the EU had been a godly place, made up of justice and honesty, that would have never happened.
A just EU is a EU where technocrats and bankers can't even set foot on its institutional buildings.

You know...people don't want to give away public money to technocrats. They want to use it for legitimate purposes, like improving the NHS.
If the referendum were repeated today, the Remainers would take the 40% (if they are lucky).

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

A healthy workforce is a productive workforce.

Exactly. Which, incidentally, is why I find it strange that opposition to universal healthcare is framed as a "capitalist" thing.

It might be correct in context of the private insurance company. But not when it comes to any other company.
Every company would prefer a healthy, and thus productive, workforce.

And in case of employees with health problems, every company would also prefer those employees to have easy, quick and affordable access to quality health care, since such would ensure them getting back on their feet asap and thus ready to return to work.

And not just the employees, but also their families.
Sick kids or elder parents will also weigh on the employee. They might have to stay home to take care of them.


As such, universal health care only benefits capitalists.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Unfortunately for the remainers, the NHS is what convinced the British people to vote for Brexit.

I mean...if the EU had been a godly place, made up of justice and honesty, that would have never happened.
A just EU is a EU where technocrats and bankers can't even set foot on its institutional buildings.

You know...people don't want to give away public money to technocrats. They want to use it for legitimate purposes, like improving the NHS.
If the referendum were repeated today, the Remainers would take the 40% (if they are lucky).

Could you just once not abuse a thread to start rambling about your pet peeves that have nothing to do with the topic?

 

[Estro Felino]

Exactly. Which, incidentally, is why I find it strange that opposition to universal healthcare is framed as a "capitalist" thing.

It might be correct in context of the private insurance company. But not when it comes to any other company.
Every company would prefer a healthy, and thus productive, workforce.

And in case of employees with health problems, every company would also prefer those employees to have easy, quick and affordable access to quality health care, since such would ensure them getting back on their feet asap and thus ready to return to work.

And not just the employees, but also their families.
Sick kids or elder parents will also weigh on the employee. They might have to stay home to take care of them.


As such, universal health care only benefits capitalists.

With all due respect but in Belgium there is not a real "free universal healthcare", but there is a complex three-parts-system where insurances are included.
It's not the British model for sure.

 

[Altfish]

Unfortunately for the remainers, the NHS is what convinced the British people to vote for Brexit.

I mean...if the EU had been a godly place, made up of justice and honesty, that would have never happened.
A just EU is a EU where technocrats and bankers can't even set foot on its institutional buildings.

You know...people don't want to give away public money to technocrats. They want to use it for legitimate purposes, like improving the NHS.
If the referendum were repeated today, the Remainers would take the 40% (if they are lucky).

Oh dear, what a load of nonsense.
The state of the NHS under a Tory government, uncared, underfunded and being purposely sold off and run down was the cause of the problem.
So when arch liar Johnson promised an extra £350m a week for the NHS, people thought, great, that'll sort it.
Of course there was no extra money.
Polling show that Rejoiners are at about 65%+ currently and it is growing by the day.

 

[Estro Felino]

Oh dear, what a load of nonsense.
The state of the NHS under a Tory government, uncared, underfunded and being purposely sold off and run down was the cause of the problem.
So when arch liar Johnson promised an extra £350m a week for the NHS, people thought, great, that'll sort it.
Of course there was no extra money.
Polling show that Rejoiners are at about 65%+ currently and it is growing by the day.

Fortunately now there is a Labor government.
If they can potentiate the NHS, that would be great... also because they would show that in UK there are real socialists, whereas in the US, those leftist politicians are bankers who pretend to be philanthropists.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

With all due respect but in Belgium there is not a real "free universal healthcare", but there is a complex three-parts-system where insurances are included.
It's not the British model for sure.

With all due respect, but Belgium has universal health care.

Last year I started playing tennis again after a 25 year break. I used to play at very high level (grew up on a court basically).
After sitting on my bum for 25 years, my body has weakened tremendously off course. So the past year I had injury after injury after injury. In one case I required surgery. Here's my total "return to sports" related medical history of the past year:
- 8x house doctor visits
- 3x specialist consultations
- 2x radiography
- 3x echo
- 1x MRI scan
- 1x surgery
- 3x cortisone shots in tendons / muscle tissue
- 4x physio therapy of 20 sessions each
- a bunch of medication (mostly iboprofen and alike)

The total cost of EVERYTHING was less then 150 bucks. And it's that much only because only 2 physio therapies per year are fully covered in the Belgian system (if they are for different things... if it concerns the same problem every time, it's more then 2... and all 4 times it was for a different type of injury)

Sure, it's not "free". But I also don't have any additional insurances or anything. It's just the public government system available to all citizens by default.


I'm fine now btw.. body has strengthened and I'm no able to play several matches per week and I feel great!

 

[Estro Felino]

With all due respect, but Belgium has universal health care.

Last year I started playing tennis again after a 25 year break. I used to play at very high level (grew up on a court basically).
After sitting on my bum for 25 years, my body has weakened tremendously off course. So the past year I had injury after injury after injury. In one case I required surgery. Here's my total "return to sports" related medical history of the past year:
- 8x house doctor visits
- 3x specialist consultations
- 2x radiography
- 3x echo
- 1x MRI scan
- 1x surgery
- 3x cortisone shots in tendons / muscle tissue
- 4x physio therapy of 20 sessions each

The total cost of EVERYTHING was less then 150 bucks. And it's that much only because only 2 physio therapies per year are fully covered in the Belgian system (if they are for different things... if it concerns the same problem every time, it's more then 2... and all 4 times it was for a different type of injury)

Sure, it's not "free". But I also don't have any additional insurances or anything. It's just the public government system available to all citizens by default.


I'm fine now btw.. body has strengthened and I'm no able to play several matches per week and I feel great!

It would be a miracle if the US had that kind of healthcare. Miracles almost never happen.

 

[Revoltingest]

Irrational fear.

Says a foreigner who's unaware of
Hillary's proposal during Bill's reign.
I'm surprised that you're not dissing
her for this. Are you a fan now?

 

[Revoltingest]

Why call me komrad for noting how the system now works and who benefits from it.

Cuz of the stridency & buzz words.

If not, propose an alternative from any other nation's model.

I've made proposals.
No liberal ever remembers them.
They just presume I've made none.
It's like my gun control proposals.
Those go ignored too.
What is it with you guys?

 

[Estro Felino]

Says a foreigner who's unaware of
Hillary's proposal during Bill's reign.
I'm surprised that you're not dissing
her for this. Are you a fan now?

Never.

But I would like you to express your views over universal healthcare.
My best friend was never hospitalized in her entire life. She is also childless.
Why should she give away money to some insurance company that will become richer and richer and whose CEO will probably spend that money on immoral activities?

 

[Revoltingest]

Why would they do that?

You'd have to ask Hillary.

We have a National Health Service in the UK; but if you want to pay, to jump queues, etc, you can do.

That's better than what she tried.
Fortunately, Bill created some distractions
that de-railed many of his presidential efforts.
Remember? The presidue on the blue dress?

 

[Stevicus]

Exactly. Which, incidentally, is why I find it strange that opposition to universal healthcare is framed as a "capitalist" thing.

It might be correct in context of the private insurance company. But not when it comes to any other company.
Every company would prefer a healthy, and thus productive, workforce.

And in case of employees with health problems, every company would also prefer those employees to have easy, quick and affordable access to quality health care, since such would ensure them getting back on their feet asap and thus ready to return to work.

And not just the employees, but also their families.
Sick kids or elder parents will also weigh on the employee. They might have to stay home to take care of them.


As such, universal health care only benefits capitalists.

It's framed as a "capitalist" thing because it's all in the context of profits and making money. They don't want to pay more in taxes to pay for universal healthcare, and it's obvious the insurance, pharmaceutical, and other healthcare-related businesses also want to earn high profits. They have very powerful, entrenched lobbies which are used to getting their way. For the most part, they view the workforce as disposable and easily replaced, so they have very little incentive to care about their health or well-being.

 

[Revoltingest]

Never.

But I would like you to express your views over universal healthcare.

I favor a single payer system that allows
private care to serve those able to pay.
It's a "Plan B" to avoid the inevitable
failure of government to properly fund
health care, thereby causing long waits
for poor service.

No matter how often I post this, lefties
continue to be utterly unaware of it.
Tis as though all you guys know is to which
tribe you've assigned each poster.

 

[We Never Know]

source?

As I said "If I remember correctly'
So the source is going from my memory.
But if you like I can google it later or you can google it.

 

[Estro Felino]

I favor a single payer system that allows
private care to serve those able to pay.

@Altfish has told you that it's the rule in all the countries with the Beveridge system.

It's a "Plan B" to avoid the inevitable
failure of government to properly fund
health care, thereby causing long waits
for poor service.

In America there will be poor service, because the 100% of public money is wasted on wars.

No matter how often I post this, lefties
continue to be utterly unaware of it.
Tis as though all you guys know is to which
tribe you've assigned each poster.

I have known both systems.
Nurses and physicians of the NHS system have a heart. They care about you.
Physicians of private clinics have a cash register instead of a brain and a bottom line instead of a heart.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It would be a miracle if the US had that kind of healthcare. Miracles almost never happen.

If I lived in the US, I would have been forced to quit playing months ago. I wouldn't have been able to afford the medical expenses.
It would have run into thousands of dollars.