Heaven and John the Baptist

[savagewind]

I was taught to believe that nobody who had died before Jesus Christ died will ever get to Heaven.
It is what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach.
The reason why they think it is true that only people who died after Jesus died will go there is that
they believe Jesus made the way there and it is written that no one has ever gone to Heaven.... John 3:13
...and "David did not ascend into heaven" at Acts of the Apostles 2:34

I have no reason to doubt that nobody before Jesus lived and died ever reached Heaven.

I believe in a resurrection. I have no good reason not to.

Now, imagine the resurrection of John the Baptist and imagine that he will be resurrected to the Earth
and if the Jehovah's Witnesses get their way, being told the reason why he is on Earth and not in Heaven.

He will be told that because he had died before Jesus died he won't be seeing Jesus anymore.

He might say, "it is written that God will satisfy the desire of every living thing and I want to be with Christ in Heaven!"

And they will try to persuade him not to want that. It is what they do.

Now imagine the rest of them being told, "no! No Heaven for you!"

Daniel; Isaiah, Moses (he might be on Earth imo), Able, Noah (he should probably be an Earthling imo), David,
oh, I don't know who else. I can believe that some of them who made the way for Jesus Christ' coming might be happy to never ever be with God in Heaven, but anyway, that is what they believe, teach, and say that you have to believe it too so that God might view you too as a righteous one and YOU can have access to Heaven according to the Jehovah's Witnesses, but only if you agree with them.

I don't agree with them.

 

[pearl]

Daniel; Isaiah, Moses (he might be on Earth imo), Able, Noah (he should probably be an Earthling imo), David,

They are justified by their faith, just as we all are.

 

[savagewind]

They are justified by their faith, just as we all are.

Do you want to make a point about the subject? Can you?

The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Heaven is CLOSED to anyone who died before they believe Jesus Christ died.
It isn't about faith. It is about timing.

 

[savagewind]

Many people are being taught to believe that when a person lived and died can determine if he or she can be with Christ in Heaven. For those people who lived and died before Jesus Christ did it isn't about belief, faith, and/or righteousness. It is about when they died.

 

[Muslim-UK]

JW is considered a cult that has made numerous false Prophecies in their Watch Tower magazine. I wouldn't take any notice of what they believed, but do commend them for not accepting the false concept of Trinity.

 

[savagewind]

JW is considered a cult that has made numerous false Prophecies in their Watch Tower magazine. I wouldn't take any notice of what they believed, but do commend them for not accepting the false concept of Trinity.

Thank you for commenting. Have you ever considered that John the Baptist was a real person who lived and died?

Can you imagine someone putting himself in the way of your going somewhere that you believe you have to go?

 

[savagewind]

I think that for some people their goal is to be side by side with The Lord.
If they died prior to the death of Jesus Christ and God gave them life again, but life to the Earth before their being taken to Heaven, Jehovah's Witnesses would do anything to convince them that their goal is absolutely wrong.

The holy ones of old are being pitted against the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses and all their loyal people.

I think I know why the governing body says that only those faithful ones who lived and died after Jesus did can ever get to Heaven. The reason begins with their belief that only 144,000 ever do go to Heaven and that 144,000 is a definite number.

 

[Kemosloby]

I can't believe they teach that...that's really funny.

 

[savagewind]

I can't believe they teach that...that's really funny.

I do not think it is funny. I think it is sad and might be a dangerous idea to believe in.

Jesus says that how you judge is how you will be judged.
They say some people who would go where they should can't go where they should.
They believe they themselves should be admitted to a paradise Earth, but according to the rule, they can't go there.

I don't think it is as though they are really preventing God's will be done for the holy ones.
But, why should they feel free to have what they want while taking away the freedom of someone else to have what he wants?

I think there is enough written about John for me to know he would not be happier to be on Earth forever than to be in Heaven forever.

There is something funny about the belief though. It seems funny to me to think that any Jehovah's Witness could be a teacher of some of those that died faithful to God before Jesus did.

 

[Kemosloby]

I do not think it is funny. I think it is sad and might be a dangerous idea to believe in.

Jesus says that how you judge is how you will be judged.
They say some people who would go where they should can't go where they should.
They believe they themselves should be admitted to a paradise Earth, but according to the rule, they can't go there.

I don't think it is as though they are really preventing God's will be done for the holy ones.
But, why should they feel free to have what they want while taking away the freedom of someone else to have what he wants?

I think there is enough written about John for me to know he would not be happier to be on Earth forever than to be in Heaven forever.

There is something funny about the belief though. It seems funny to me to think that any Jehovah's Witness could be a teacher of some of those that died faithful to God before Jesus did.

I think it's funny that I have scripture figured out better than the whole organization of Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[pearl]

It isn't about faith. It is about timing.

Jesus is from the beginning of creation according to Gospel of John. There is no before Jesus.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus is from the beginning of creation according to Gospel of John. There is no before Jesus.

I trust that is correct.
But, we are talking about his death. They believe that AFTER his death people putting faith in him and chosen will go to him in Heaven, but the people before that will not.

 

[savagewind]

I think it's funny that I have scripture figured out better than the whole organization of Jehovah's Witnesses.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden to "figure out" scripture. It isn't funny that you have figured out scripture (I believe it) better than those who say they alone are chosen by God to tell us what it means. It's crazy!
I imagine that if it played out like they say (I think it won't) some damn fool will be telling Daniel the meaning of what Daniel wrote.

 

[Kemosloby]

The Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden to "figure out" scripture. It isn't funny that you have figured out scripture (I believe it) better than those who say they alone are chosen by God to tell us what it means.
I imagine that if it played out like they say (I think it won't) some damn fool will be telling Daniel the meaning of what Daniel wrote.

Except Daniel is not around to listen. I doubt it will go down that way.

 

[David T]

I was taught to believe that nobody who had died before Jesus Christ died will ever get to Heaven.
It is what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach.
The reason why they think it is true that only people who died after Jesus died will go there is that
they believe Jesus made the way there and it is written that no one has ever gone to Heaven.... John 3:13
...and "David did not ascend into heaven" at Acts of the Apostles 2:34

I have no reason to doubt that nobody before Jesus lived and died ever reached Heaven.

I believe in a resurrection. I have no good reason not to.

Now, imagine the resurrection of John the Baptist and imagine that he will be resurrected to the Earth
and if the Jehovah's Witnesses get their way, being told the reason why he is on Earth and not in Heaven.

He will be told that because he had died before Jesus died he won't be seeing Jesus anymore.

He might say, "it is written that God will satisfy the desire of every living thing and I want to be with Christ in Heaven!"

And they will try to persuade him not to want that. It is what they do.

Now imagine the rest of them being told, "no! No Heaven for you!"

Daniel; Isaiah, Moses (he might be on Earth imo), Able, Noah (he should probably be an Earthling imo), David,
oh, I don't know who else. I can believe that some of them who made the way for Jesus Christ' coming might be happy to never ever be with God in Heaven, but anyway, that is what they believe, teach, and say that you have to believe it too so that God might view you too as a righteous one and YOU can have access to Heaven according to the Jehovah's Witnesses, but only if you agree with them.

I don't agree with them.

What is time? You see the problem, how you resolve it will be dependent on your perceptions and your perception is dependent upon your resolution. If I write " in order to understand God you must understand nature in order to understand nature you must understand god" is a difficult thing for normal folks. Symbiosis is very clearly not understood.

 

[savagewind]

Except Daniel is not around to listen. I doubt it will go down that way.

I believe that Daniel won't be around to listen.
THEY believe Daniel will be resurrected to the Earth. Some years ago, a house was built for some resurrected servants of God.

But, I trust that Daniel and the others will be taken straight-away to Heaven at the right time.

 

[savagewind]

What is time? You see the problem, how you resolve it will be dependent on your perceptions and your perception is dependent upon your resolution. If I write " in order to understand God you must understand nature in order to understand nature you must understand god" is a difficult thing for normal folks. Symbiosis is very clearly not understood.

I understand that! We shouldn't be talking about me. I am just telling you about what THEY believe and teach.
If I was still a loyal Jehovah's Witness I would NOT be here (because they are being warned about such places) and I wouldn't listen to someone's weird philosophy because it is against the Jehovah's Witness rule to listen to such as you and me.

 

[Kemosloby]

I believe that Daniel won't be around to listen.
THEY believe Daniel will be resurrected to the Earth. Some years ago, a house was built for some resurrected servants of God.

But, I trust that Daniel and the others will be taken straight-away to Heaven at the right time.

Some graves opened up in the first resurrection when Jesus was resurrected. He might already be there.

 

[savagewind]

Some graves opened up in the first resurrection when Jesus was resurrected. He might already be there.

Yes, I agree he might be. I am not in the business of telling people like it is. I am in the business of telling people what it isn't.

 

[David T]

I understand that! We shouldn't be talking about me. I am just telling you about what THEY believe and teach.
If I was still a loyal Jehovah's Witness I would NOT be here (because they are being warned about such places) and I wouldn't listen to someone's weird philosophy because it is against the Jehovah's Witness rule to listen to such as you and me.

They are normals!!! We can bounce around the world of normals our whole lives, sliding from one "I we believe" to another "I we believe" that is just trying to be "normal". I spend my free time sauntering through the oregon coastal range not hiking that's "normals"!! Sauntering is an interesting word. Muir uses it in an interesting way.