Heaven or Hell | The choice is yours

[Trey of Diamonds]

With heaven and hell as this metaphor, I would say I operate inbetween, aiming for heaven whilst verging on falling into hell.

Not a bad suggestion.

 

[connermt]

The choice wasn't really ours. It was god's, based upon christianity. Maybe the thread title should be change....?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

The choice wasn't really ours. It was god's, based upon christianity. Maybe the thread title should be change....?

I'm not a mainstream Christian, I follow a heretical denomination so I think the title is just fine.

 

[Blackdog22]

Thanks for your comments and links. I have no disagreement with you. I did not mean it to sound as if humans do not go to hell. I only meant that was not God's desire as He originally prepared hell or everlasting punishment for satan and the demons and desires to see humans repent and be saved.

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels Matthew 25:41

It's not Gods desire that sinners end up in hell? So we accidently end up there and God doesn't know how or have any control over it?

Do you honestly believe we just end up there somehow, but God actually made it for Satan? If we end up there then he made it for us as well or you are suggesting a being that can't control where we do or do not go and is thus not God. So which is it?

If God wanted too couldn't he make a place like earth for sinners to go? Wouldn't that give us more choice since freewill is such a big deal? Why can't I go to a land of skittles when I die, without believing in Jesus, if that is what I want? Sounds like the choice isn't mine, because I want to go to skittles land and God says im going to hell.

 

[connermt]

I'm not a mainstream Christian, I follow a heretical denomination so I think the title is just fine.

CHANGE IT!

j/k

 

[Protester]

Surely if an omnipotent being desires something, it would get exactly what it desires.

Webster's 1913 dictionary gave the definition for the three attributes of God, necessary ones to be a God.

OMNIPRESENT:

Omnipresent /Om`ni·pres´ent/ (?), a. [Omni- + present: cf.F. omniprésent.] Present in all places at the same time; ubiquitous; as, the omnipresent Jehovah. Prior.

OMNIPOTENT:

Omnipotent /Om·nip´o·tent/ (?), a. [F., fr.L. omnipotens, -entis; omnis all + potens powerful, potent. See Potent.] 1. Able in every respect and for every work; unlimited in ability; all-powerful; almighty; as, the Being that can create worlds must be omnipotent.
God's will and pleasure and his omnipotent power. Sir T. More.
2. Having unlimited power of a particular kind; as, omnipotent love. Shak.
The Omnipotent, The Almighty; God. Milton.

OMNISCIENT:

Omniscient /Om·nis´cient/ (?), a. [Omni- + L. sciens, -entis, p. pr. of scire to know: cf. F. omniscient. See Science.] Having universal knowledge; knowing all things; infinitely knowing or wise; as, the omniscient God. -- Om*nis"cient*ly, adv.
For what can scape the eye
Of God all-seeing, or deceive his heart
Omniscient? Milton.

Oh, just a reminder about the original thread, What is predestination? Is predestination Biblical?

 

[InChrist]

It's not Gods desire that sinners end up in hell? So we accidently end up there and God doesn't know how or have any control over it?

Do you honestly believe we just end up there somehow, but God actually made it for Satan? If we end up there then he made it for us as well or you are suggesting a being that can't control where we do or do not go and is thus not God. So which is it?

If God wanted too couldn't he make a place like earth for sinners to go? Wouldn't that give us more choice since freewill is such a big deal? Why can't I go to a land of skittles when I die, without believing in Jesus, if that is what I want? Sounds like the choice isn't mine, because I want to go to skittles land and God says im going to hell.

God created humans to spend eternity with Him enjoying His love, joy, peace, beauty, and creativity. Anyone who does not want to be with God will not be required to spend eternity in heaven with Him. Hell is the only other option.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

God created humans to spend eternity with Him enjoying His love, joy, peace, beauty, and creativity. Anyone who does not want to be with God will not be required to spend eternity in heaven with Him. Hell is the only other option.

You make it sound like a choice but the choice you are offering is complete subservience and devotion to God or Hell. What if some find love, joy, peace, beauty and creativity in forms other than the Christian God? Are they to be condemed to Hell just because they follow a different path? My God isn't that cruel.

 

[Inthedark]

God created humans to spend eternity with Him enjoying His love, joy, peace, beauty, and creativity. Anyone who does not want to be with God will not be required to spend eternity in heaven with Him. Hell is the only other option.

Interesting that this was you 666th post. Any significance in the numbers? ;-)

Heaven by the literal definition provided in the bible takes away our free will. No free will, no empathy because there is no suffering, no happy or sad but eternal numbness. Heaven is a paradox. Which of the two options exactly is supposed to be the place to be, heaven or hell? I hold the opinion that a metaphorical interpetation is required with our goal, heaven, being enlightenment.

 

[InChrist]

You make it sound like a choice but the choice you are offering is complete subservience and devotion to God or Hell. What if some find love, joy, peace, beauty and creativity in forms other than the Christian God? Are they to be condemed to Hell just because they follow a different path? My God isn't that cruel.

If there is One Creator God then it stands to reason that this Creator has the right to determine and an obligation to give people directions for the path they must follow to find His address and get to His heavenly home, if He wants them to find it. It would be cruel not to do so, letting everyone wander aimlessly lost.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

If there is One Creator God then it stands to reason that this Creator has the right to determine and an obligation to give people directions for the path they must follow to find His address and get to His heavenly home, if He wants them to find it. It would be cruel not to do so, letting everyone wander aimlessly lost.

I think its cruel to punish someone for not giving up the beliefs of their culture in favor of a jealous and vindictive God. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[McBell]

You make it sound like a choice but the choice you are offering is complete subservience and devotion to God or Hell. What if some find love, joy, peace, beauty and creativity in forms other than the Christian God? Are they to be condemed to Hell just because they follow a different path? My God isn't that cruel.

I don't know...

Isn't an ultimatum still technically a choice?

 

[InChrist]

I think its cruel to punish someone for not giving up the beliefs of their culture in favor of a jealous and vindictive God. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You certainly have the right to think what you think, but I don't understand your view. How do you know for a fact that God is jealous in a negative way or vindictive at all? If God is the Creator of heaven and earth and He created humans to live eternally with Him and desires that they find Him would this not transcend various human cultures?

 

[InChrist]

Interesting that this was you 666th post. Any significance in the numbers? ;-)

Heaven by the literal definition provided in the bible takes away our free will. No free will, no empathy because there is no suffering, no happy or sad but eternal numbness. Heaven is a paradox. Which of the two options exactly is supposed to be the place to be, heaven or hell? I hold the opinion that a metaphorical interpetation is required with our goal, heaven, being enlightenment.

I am not superstitious about the number 666.

According to the scriptures the joy of heaven is inexpressible and those there will be truly free.

So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John 8:36

 

[McBell]

How do you know for a fact that God is jealous in a negative way or vindictive at all?

Gee, I wonder if god ordering the slaughter of complete villages, to include the women, children, farm animal and trees, for no other reason than they do not worship him might be a slight give away?

If God is the Creator of heaven and earth and He created humans to live eternally with Him and desires that they find Him would this not transcend various human cultures?

Mighty big "if" you got going there....

Edit:
By the way, would you please be so kind as to present an example of being jealous in a positive way?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

You certainly have the right to think what you think, but I don't understand your view. How do you know for a fact that God is jealous in a negative way or vindictive at all? If God is the Creator of heaven and earth and He created humans to live eternally with Him and desires that they find Him would this not transcend various human cultures?

Have you read the OT? I don't know many who would argue against him being a big meanie head. He changed his image a bit when he came to Earth as his own son but when it comes to salvation, he's still OT. Bow down and kiss my feet or go to Hell. I rejected this God back when I was a teenager. I've since learned that there are many paths to the same truth and each persons path is just a legitamate as the next persons. You path is correct for you and it will get you to your destination. Your only mistake is in condemning others for not taking your path.

 

[InChrist]

Gee, I wonder if god ordering the slaughter of complete villages, to include the women, children, farm animal and trees, for no other reason than they do not worship him might be a slight give away?

[FONT=&quot]If you pay attention to the accounts in the OT you would realize that God did not command other tribes or nations besides Israel to worship Him. The tribes which were destroyed were destroyed because of their complete wickedness, violence, and depravity which included child sacrifice. As the Judge of the universe God knows when a people/culture is so far gone into evil there is no chance of turning from it or changing. He has the wisdom and knowledge and right as Judge of the universe to determine when life ends.[/FONT]

Edit:
By the way, would you please be so kind as to present an example of being jealous in a positive way?

[/quote]

[FONT=&quot]Human jealousy is often self-centered. God's jealousy as spoken of in the Bible is based on caring for and protecting His creation. He knows the futility and harm which is brought upon humanity when people worship worthless idols they have made with their own hands or created in their hearts and minds. Idols can never satisfy, help, or give true peace, truth, and love which only God as Creator can provide.
[/FONT]

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

[FONT=&quot]Human jealousy is often self-centered. God's jealousy as spoken of in the Bible is based on caring for and protecting His creation. He knows the futility and harm which is brought upon humanity when people worship worthless idols they have made with their own hands or created in their hearts and minds. Idols can never satisfy, help, or give true peace, truth, and love which only God as Creator can provide.[/FONT]

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

 

[jasonwill2]

I do not need to choose. "Hell" does not exist, such a thing defies the existience of a rational god. What god would make eternal and infinite punishment for temporal and finite crimes? Overkill much?

I use the word "Hell" to mean the earth, as it means "below", as opposed to the Heavens, which means the Universe considered as a whole.

So "Hell" as punishment does not exist to me, so I need to ask myself this.

BUT, to actually answer? I would choose heaven so that I could annoy and accuse the evangelists like a good satan (accuser and adversary in English) does.

I'd need to see a brochure from each resort first.

True.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I would choose heaven so that I could annoy and accuse the evangelists like a good satan (accuser and adversary in English) does.

Now that is an option I hadn't considered. It has a certain appeal about it.