Heaven or Hell | The choice is yours

[InChrist]

Actually, I've observed the opposite psyche demonstrated from those who would choose heaven over an eternity of suffering with their Earthly loved ones.

If I thought one of my children were guilty of anything, and sentenced to life in prison....and not just sequestered, but tortured....and I had the choice of forgetting about them and living like a queen, or joining them just because I
didn't like the law of the land, I'd join them.

Without question.

Living like a queen without my loved ones shows I really do only care about myself.

I think your motive is admirable, but your understanding is flawed. If I thought a law was unjust and one of my children was suffering under it, I too, would join them rather than live a life of luxury while they suffered unjustly.



But the reality which the scriptures demonstrate is that God Is a completely just Judge. He does not make mistakes or condemn any innocent person. Hell is for the guilty and the wicked. They are there by their own deeds, not because of any bad law or misjudgment on the part of the God. As much as I love my children, if one of them became a serial killer or rapist and the judge in the courtroom convicted them to prison or death I would not join in their punishment. I would grieve for them. I would be sorry for the destructive choices they made and the harm they caused others and ultimately themselves, but I would agree with the judge.


The LORD is known by the judgment He executes; the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. For the needy shall not always be forgotten; the expectation of the poor shall not perish forever. Arise, O LORD, Do not let man prevail; let the nations be judged in Your sight. Put them in fear, O LORD, that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Psalm 9:16-20

For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with His truth. Psalm 96:13

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What is it with this fascination with hell? It's not like you really believe in the concept do you?

You don't find the stupid things that people believe to be fascinating?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think your motive is admirable, but your understanding is flawed. If I thought a law was unjust and one of my children was suffering under it, I too, would join them rather than live a life of luxury while they suffered unjustly.



But the reality which the scriptures demonstrate is that God Is a completely just Judge. He does not make mistakes or condemn any innocent person. Hell is for the guilty and the wicked. They are there by their own deeds, not because of any bad law or misjudgment on the part of the God. As much as I love my children, if one of them became a serial killer or rapist and the judge in the courtroom convicted them to prison or death I would not join in their punishment. I would grieve for them. I would be sorry for the destructive choices they made and the harm they caused others and ultimately themselves, but I would agree with the judge.


The LORD is known by the judgment He executes; the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. For the needy shall not always be
forgotten; the expectation of the poor shall not perish forever. Arise, O LORD, Do not let man prevail; let the nations be judged in Your sight. Put them in fear, O LORD, that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Psalm 9:16-20

For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with His truth. Psalm 96:13

No thanks.

I don't agree with you that my reasoning is flawed. If my children were in hell only because they didn't pray to God, claim they were Christian, believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation....I think their punishment is wildly and grossly unjust. How strange that the comparison to rapists and murderers is brought up in the same breath as justifying non-Christians in hell.

I was raised in the Catholic church. I was an Evangelical Christian in college. I understand the logic as well as the insistence on faith. I also was not a nice person, nor was I patient, generous, or loving. I hated and feared people. Mostly because I hated and feared myself.

I strongly disagree that someone should be punished and tortured for eternity because they believed differently theologically. Therefore, I would immediately choose hell over heaven if a petty and immature deity had the power to send my loved ones to eternal torture.

Of course, I also think petty deities need a Big Squishy Hug. Maybe that would make them feel better every now and then.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I also was not a nice person, nor was I patient, generous, or loving.

That's so hard to imagine.

I strongly disagree that someone should be punished and tortured for eternity because they believed differently theologically. Therefore, I would immediately choose hell over heaven if a petty and immature deity had the power to send my loved ones to eternal torture.

Amen!

Of course, I also think petty deities need a Big Squishy Hug. Maybe that would make them feel better every now and then.

I'm a petty deity.

 

[Viker]

Lets say you die and find out that there really is a Heaven and a Hell. Lets also say that you're told Hell is full of all your friends and those few family members you actually like while Heaven is full of all those self righteous evangelicals you despise. Now, you're given a choice; Heaven or Hell? Which would you choose? Why?

Hell. I value loyalty to friends and family above self gratification and ego stroking.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm a petty deity.

Awwww.

Now stop it. *pinches Trey's nose*

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Living like a queen without my loved ones shows I really do only care about myself.

It's occurred to me in the past that the only was I can make sense of the conventional Christian depiction of Heaven is as a test that we're meant to reject. It just seems to me that it goes against all the values that Jesus preached about in the Gospels.

 

[cablescavenger]

Lets say you die and find out that there really is a Heaven and a Hell. Lets also say that you're told Hell is full of all your friends and those few family members you actually like while Heaven is full of all those self righteous evangelicals you despise. Now, you're given a choice; Heaven or Hell? Which would you choose? Why?

I think I would plonk for certain death, because it fits my expectations and is more poetic.

 

[mr black]

For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with His truth. Psalm 96:13

Why doesn't anyone quote the songs of the Beatles or Maralyn Manson or Deep Purple, they just quote songs that are 4000yrs old?
[/I]

 

[religion99]

That was my issue with the folks telling me my friends were all going to Hell. What they were calling Heaven sounded more like Hell to me so I choose to be with my friends.

According to Jainism , if you go to Heaven , you still have ability to visit Hell once in a while to see your friends. During that time , you can teach them "true laws
of nature" so that they don't commit the same mistakes in Hell that they did while
they were on Earth like lieing , violence etc.

 

[Quagmire]

According to Jainism , if you go to Heaven , you still have ability to visit Hell once in a while to see your friends. During that time , you can teach them "true laws
of nature" so that they don't commit the same mistakes in Hell that they did while
they were on Earth like lieing , violence etc.

As versions of heaven/hell go, that's pretty cool.

 

[religion99]

As versions of heaven/hell go, that's pretty cool.

Jainsm also believes that It is not nccessary and sufficient to be a Jain to go to Heaven. If a Non-Jain's life is truthful and non-violent , He/She will go to Heaven. Along the same line, A Jain who lives a dishonest and violent life will go to Hell.

 

[InChrist]

No thanks.

I don't agree with you that my reasoning is flawed. If my children were in hell only because they didn't pray to God, claim they were Christian, believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation....I think their punishment is wildly and grossly unjust. How strange that the comparison to rapists and murderers is brought up in the same breath as justifying non-Christians in hell.

I was raised in the Catholic church. I was an Evangelical Christian in college. I understand the logic as well as the insistence on faith. I also was not a nice person, nor was I patient, generous, or loving. I hated and feared people. Mostly because I hated and feared myself.

I strongly disagree that someone should be punished and tortured for eternity because they believed differently theologically. Therefore, I would immediately choose hell over heaven if a petty and immature deity had the power to send my loved ones to eternal torture.

Of course, I also think petty deities need a Big Squishy Hug. Maybe that would make them feel better every now and then.

The god you believe in is small and petty, but this is not the true God…the Creator of heaven and earth. I’d say you have a flawed view of sin, also. The scriptures indicate that God does not look at any sin as trivial or innocuous. Sin is dangerous and infectious and it will continue to grow and perpetuate itself when left unchecked. According to His revealed word, God’s perspective says that everyone is under bondage to sin and satan. Out of His sacrificial love He has provided a means of escape through Jesus the Savior. It has nothing to do with different theological beliefs. If anyone refuses the way of escape they face a self-inflicted eternity of torment brought about by clinging to sin and by being forever with the malevolent demonic beings which will also be there. So the choice is yours. No one will be able to blame God.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

The god you believe in is small and petty, but this is not the true God…the Creator of heaven and earth. I’d say you have a flawed view of sin, also. The scriptures indicate that God does not look at any sin as trivial or innocuous. Sin is dangerous and infectious and it will continue to grow and perpetuate itself when left unchecked. According to His revealed word, God’s perspective says that everyone is under bondage to sin and satan. Out of His sacrificial love He has provided a means of escape through Jesus the Savior. It has nothing to do with different theological beliefs. If anyone refuses the way of escape they face a self-inflicted eternity of torment brought about by clinging to sin and by being forever with the malevolent demonic beings which will also be there. So the choice is yours. No one will be able to blame God.

You are welcome to your belief and I'm happy you have found your path but I am even more happy that your God is not my God. You can call your God the true God all you want but I'll never believe it. :no:

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The god you believe in is small and petty, but this is not the true God…the Creator of heaven and earth. I’d say you have a flawed view of sin, also. The scriptures indicate that God does not look at any sin as trivial or innocuous. Sin is dangerous and infectious and it will continue to grow and perpetuate itself when left unchecked. According to His revealed word, God’s perspective says that everyone is under bondage to sin and satan. Out of His sacrificial love He has provided a means of escape through Jesus the Savior. It has nothing to do with different theological beliefs. If anyone refuses the way of escape they face a self-inflicted eternity of torment brought about by clinging to sin and by being forever with the malevolent demonic beings which will also be there. So the choice is yours. No one will be able to blame God.

So your god sends his imperfect, insignificant creations to spend an eternity being tormented by demonic beings because they need more proof than religious nutjobs spouting nonsense at them? And he's not petty?

Hilarious!

 

[InChrist]

[/size]

You are welcome to your belief and I'm happy you have found your path but I am even more happy that your God is not my God. You can call your God the true God all you want but I'll never believe it. :no:

Why not?

P.S. I've heard it is best never to say "never".

 

[InChrist]

So your god sends his imperfect, insignificant creations to spend an eternity being tormented by demonic beings because they need more proof than religious nutjobs spouting nonsense at them? And he's not petty?

Hilarious!

As I said, God has provided a way of escape from eternal torment and does not desire that anyone face such torment. You certainly don't have to believe me and you shouldn't take my word for anything which relates to something as important as eternity. But have you ever sincerely asked God directly about your eternity or do you just prefer to mock and make light of it presuming you have all the answers?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But have you ever sincerely asked God directly about your eternity or do you just prefer to mock and make light of it presuming you have all the answers?

I prefer to mock and make light of the irony of someone telling me I presume to know all the answers when they're the ones claiming such a thing.

 

[religion99]

Existance of Hell and Heaven doesn't automatically imply existance of God or Creator.


Jainism and Buddhism admits Hell and Heaven , but don't accept existence of God or Creator.

 

[839311]

Id go to heaven. Then I'd assassinate God - or strip him of his power at least -, take over the celestial kingdom, free everyone from hell, change everyones genes so no one would be evil anymore, then throw an eternal party. :danana: