Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I could enjoy that but why would that be the case?
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Heaven
- Thread starter Balthazzar
- Start date
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
I've learned over the years that hell and death are the grave, so I'll agree. You first must descend (womb) before you ascend and have life, then we get to go through the aging processes and eventually descend a different way at death. Life is required for happiness. It's also required for grief and sorrow. I don't think death offers much of either ... unless there's life after death which would make death a different type of life, so I'm not sure if death would be an even remotely adequate term to define the possible existence of life after dying. Life is a balancing act and after it's over it's over, or so I would assume.
In heaven, we are past the human need for 'enjoyment'. In heaven we are in bliss, with absolutely no needs and no desires.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
Why?
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
I think this view, which is common to several faith traditions, is informed by the observation that the more we detach in this life from both our thoughts and our desires, the more we are released from suffering. This being so, it would appear to follow that if there is a heaven, it’s a place in which we are removed from all desire.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
Ohhh, ok so it's a state of non existence where we are unaware and lifeless OR it's a place where we infuse back into our original state of all with the all without conscious awareness and thoughts and attachments to things we currently enjoy as living beings. A place of rest, so to speak. Interesting. Life ain't easy and this much is true, but it can also be enjoyable - The yin and the yang.
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day. At 52 and approaching the end of my day on earth, I'm looking back and asking myself if I'm satisfied with my work here. I'm like "Hell no" but it has been a long day and maybe there's still time for satisfaction in my efforts.
Why? You can ask your maker when you see him, why he did it this way.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
I'll keep my ongoing yin yang type of existnce until I die. If there's an after I die left for me, I'll assume it'll be similar to the yin yang type existence I now live. Hopefully, it'll be at least a little more pleasant and promising next time around. If not, and even if it is, I'm sure our work here is never done.
Of course, your work here is not yet done. That is why everyone has multiple earthly lives (thousands actually) so they can complete their work (under a ying/yang type of existence, as you put it). But time between lives (in purgatory and in heaven), is a time of rest for everyone, in preparation for the next earth-bound life of suffering, strife as well as 'enjoyment'. There is no suffering or struggle in heaven, just bliss. You really should read this page, if you are that interested: Heaven, Hell and the AfterLife
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
With all these 1000's of lifetimes, are we reborn modified versions of ourselves or do we become entirely new creations with our genetic coding intact? Maybe that's a bad way to phrase it. Do we retain our genetic coded instinct and abilities and some of our physical characteristics? Rest and/or death sounds like sleeping without the mind creating imagery. I'm not in disagreement with this. I'm not in disagreement with becoming a newly created being with our leaned abilities predisposed from previous lives either. I'll disagree with the modified version of self-model having our past life memories intact.
Physically we are different in each lifetime (with different DNA which depends on the new parents). In fact, every few lives, we also change gender, so everyone is male or female approximately 50% of the time. Previous memories are not lost. Between earthly lives, we remember memories of all our previous lives - the memories are just not in the physical brain, so during an earthly life we only remember the current one.
As I said, heaven is a time of rest as well as a time of experiencing bliss - so we are quite conscious all the time, not sleeping at all.
However, each new life progresses from previous lives, so we become wiser, smarter, more accomplished, more balanced as each life teaches us new lessons. After we are fully developed (after thousands of lives), we become almost 'godlike' with nothing more to learn on Earth and no longer require a new incarnation. This is called moksha in Hinduism or nirvana in Buddhism.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is because translators have erroneously conflated them. Hell and the grave are two different things.
I believe spiritual life can be just as happy as physical life.
I believe I don't really need those things.
I believe there is physical death and spiritual death. Spiritual death does not mean the end of existence but rather a move into darkness.
I believe it is always there in all its processes.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe there is a Heaven and that desire is present there also. A lack of desire is a Buddhist goal and counterproductive in my view.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
1. Agreed
2. Agreed
3. I think these are part of life, development, and growth
4. Somewhat agree - Spiritual death to me is an absence of happiness, love, joy, peace, things we typically find beneficial and pleasant in life, which can feel a bit like a living hell.
5. Agreed, but I'll disagree that our present state of awareness and sense of current identity will remain intact.