Heaven

[Trailblazer]

if its only a story why are you here .

How so? I don't believe that God created the earth in six days, I believe in evolution.

what book did Bahāʾullāh read to get his understanding

He did not have to read anything because He got a Revelation from God.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred. Can it be still when the tempestuous winds are blowing? Nay, by Him Who is the Lord of all Names and Attributes! They move it as they list. The evanescent is as nothing before Him Who is the Ever-Abiding. His all-compelling summons hath reached Me, and caused Me to speak His praise amidst all people. I was indeed as one dead when His behest was uttered. The hand of the will of thy Lord, the Compassionate, the Merciful, transformed Me. Can any one speak forth of his own accord that for which all men, both high and low, will protest against him? Nay, by Him Who taught the Pen the eternal mysteries, save him whom the grace of the Almighty, the All-Powerful, hath strengthened. The Pen of the Most High addresseth Me saying: 58 Fear not. Relate unto His Majesty the Sháh that which befell thee. His heart, verily, is between the fingers of thy Lord, the God of Mercy, that haply the sun of justice and bounty may shine forth above the horizon of his heart. Thus hath the decree been irrevocably fixed by Him Who is the All-Wise.”​

​

Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 57-58​

 

[cataway]

How so? I don't believe that God created the earth in six days, I believe in evolution.

He did not have to read anything because He got a Revelation from God.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred. Can it be still when the tempestuous winds are blowing? Nay, by Him Who is the Lord of all Names and Attributes! They move it as they list. The evanescent is as nothing before Him Who is the Ever-Abiding. His all-compelling summons hath reached Me, and caused Me to speak His praise amidst all people. I was indeed as one dead when His behest was uttered. The hand of the will of thy Lord, the Compassionate, the Merciful, transformed Me. Can any one speak forth of his own accord that for which all men, both high and low, will protest against him? Nay, by Him Who taught the Pen the eternal mysteries, save him whom the grace of the Almighty, the All-Powerful, hath strengthened. The Pen of the Most High addresseth Me saying: 58 Fear not. Relate unto His Majesty the Sháh that which befell thee. His heart, verily, is between the fingers of thy Lord, the God of Mercy, that haply the sun of justice and bounty may shine forth above the horizon of his heart. Thus hath the decree been irrevocably fixed by Him Who is the All-Wise.”​

​

Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 57-58​

well then here we have a guy that knew nothing about God and out of the blue and some god said hey" I have a message for you to spread among
the nations "

 

[Trailblazer]

well then here we have a guy that knew nothing about God and out of the blue and some god said hey" I have a message for you to spread among
the nations "

That's right, and the same thing happened to Jesus.

 

[cataway]

That's right, and the same thing happened to Jesus.

did it

 

[Trailblazer]

did it

It did.

 

[cataway]

It did.

you are saying a un-named god contacted Bahāʾullāh ,reveled to him that he had a prehuman existence just as Jehovah did for Jesus

 

[Trailblazer]

you are saying a un-named god contacted Bahāʾullāh ,reveled to him that he had a prehuman existence just as Jehovah did for Jesus

No, I am saying that the one true God contacted Bahāʾu'llāh and spoke to Him through the Holy Spirit, just as the one true God did for Jesus.
After that Bahāʾu'llāh knew that he had a prehuman existence, just as Jesus knew after the one true God spoke to Him through the Holy Spirit.

 

[cataway]

No, I am saying that the one true God contacted Bahāʾu'llāh and spoke to Him through the Holy Spirit, just as the one true God did for Jesus.
After that Bahāʾu'llāh knew that he had a prehuman existence, just as Jesus knew after the one true God spoke to Him through the Holy Spirit.

ya, thats right up there with Marshall Applewhite and David Koresh they also thought them selves called and ordained of God . as i recall it was foretold that such men would rise up to have people follow them . it is a common Theam .

 

[Trailblazer]

ya, thats right up there with Marshall Applewhite and David Koresh they also thought them selves called and ordained of God . as i recall it was foretold that such men would rise up to have people follow them . it is a common Theam .

No, Baha'u'llah is right up there with Jesus since both of them were Messengers of God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

nope,you have been led astray. a story has been told to you and you were likely told not to think for yourself .just believe what you are being told

Apparently two stories have been told here (there are others as well). Are they both true, which one of them is true or both are false?

 

[wellwisher]

There are some solid science arguments for the existence of Heaven.

The second law states that the entropy of the universe has to increase. When entropy increases free energy is absorbed via the Gibbs free energy equation; G=H-TS.

Free energy G, equals H; enthalpy, minus T; temperature in degrees K, times S; entropy. The minus sign before -TS, implies when entropy increases, free energy decreases.

If the entropy of the universe has to always net increase and therefore the free energy has to net decreases, then the material universe is bleeding free energy into increasing entropy. We can reverse entropy on a small scale; freeze liquid water to ice, and to gain free energy back. However, the second laws requires a net universal loss of free energy; net bleed out, so entropy can always net increase.

The question is where does this free energy go, that is no longer net useable by the material universe? The 2nd law is creating a pool of lost free energy bleed out; energy conservation. Since the universe can only net add to the pool and not net take away, this energy pool is not exactly under the control of the material universe. It more like the other way around. What we call dark matter and dark energy may be this pool. We cannot see these in the lab, but we can infer by its affects on matter/energy; energy conservation.

Life and the brain are unique in that they both generate a lot of entropy increase; from metabolism and neuron firing. Life and the brain are adding to the lost free energy pool, with the the brain's addition to the pool, connected to our unique memory firing. The idea of us leaving behind an eternal impression; divine soul, appears to occur via the free energy pool.

Heaven in this case could theoretically occur if enough people brain processed this idea, since it would add similar collective entropic states to the pool. One does not have to do this, but your eternal memory impression; your place in the pool, will place you where your expectations lead.

 

[cataway]

No, Baha'u'llah is right up there with Jesus since both of them were Messengers of God.

in what way does Bahāʾu'llāh offer you salvation ? it being continued life . did Bahāʾu'llāh offer any hope for a future ? we know Jesus did .

 

[cataway]

well we have learned man is a soul he does not go to heaven when he dies and apparently Bahāʾu'llāh does nothing toward your salvation

 

[Harel13]

*Mod Post: Thread moved to Religious Debates*​

 

[soulsurvivor]

What would heaven be like if everything you most enjoy in life isn't part of it?

This is why we have purgatory. Everything that you enjoy is present in purgatory, so that you can gorge yourself and purge your being of the desire for these worldly things. Once you have been purged on these desires, then you will be let into heaven where you no longer care about these worldly things. Read Heaven, Hell and the AfterLife

 

[cataway]

This is why we have purgatory. Everything that you enjoy is present in purgatory, so that you can gorge yourself and purge your being of the desire for these worldly things. Once you have been purged on these desires, then you will be let into heaven where you no longer care about these worldly things. Read Heaven, Hell and the AfterLife

what makes you think there is a purgatory

 

[soulsurvivor]

what makes you think there is a purgatory

Actually, that is just the Christian term for it and I prefer not to use the term purgatory. It is just the state of most people after death before being allowed into heaven.

Are you saying you think you will directly go to heaven after death? Do you think many ordinary people are fit to enter heaven immediately after death at the same time as 'saints' or other holy people? You don't think most people need some purification before entering heaven? This process of purification is called 'purgatory' by some Christians.

 

[Balthazzar]

This is why we have purgatory. Everything that you enjoy is present in purgatory, so that you can gorge yourself and purge your being of the desire for these worldly things. Once you have been purged on these desires, then you will be let into heaven where you no longer care about these worldly things. Read Heaven, Hell and the AfterLife

Purgatory equates to everything we enjoy. Heaven is where none of this is present?


Why?

 

[Muffled]

What would heaven be like if everything you most enjoy in life isn't part of it? As a unique individual with personal tastes and preferences, the realization that these are not predominately shared by my root system, which stem from the bible is concerning. At least, they are sometimes shunned. Things such as sexual attraction to the opposite sex, and having an alcoholic beverage from time to time, and things like expressive sexuality. I thought these were the basics of human continuation and happiness. Why would I choose the opposite for myself?

I believe the bad things that make you happy lead to death and hell.

 

[Muffled]

you need not worry. Heaven was not promised . the thing promised can be found a John 3:16

I believe sex isn't promised either. When eternal life comes there is no need for it.