Hell-Believers

[Sha'irullah]

It appears to me that those who believe in hell are prone to the most harsh of actions. Looking at Christians in the past and Muslims in the present it seems obvious to me that religious adherents who accept the literal existence of hell for non-believers are the most malicious in their views towards others.
Despite the warm smiles they give and enthusiastic handshakes they believe that non believers go to hell. You never see them have sorrow or regret about this. They just accept it like a known fact.
Such theological concepts appear to create desensitization of torture, agony and death. The primary 2 religions who have spent centuries pillaging and plundering are Christianity and Islam. Now it is not the religion itself but just 1 minor aspect of it which is taught to the general population of adherents and that is hell. With hell neither religion would require conversion as there would be no need for it and neither would have the necessity to kill in order to establish religious rulership of any kind.
Hell does not prevent evil from being done by offering a concept of divine retribution. The most evil acts done have been those that believe in hell.

The very concept of hell is used as a control mechanism and brings forth barbarism from people only to hath it spread. This of course can be validated through all of history and crawl itself up the ladder of occurrences to the present.
I have also been informed of many Catholics removal of a fiery inferno from their doctrine which brings great joy to me oddly. Ahmadis do not even believe in a eternal hell and only view it as a truly just place for the wicked to enter and be purged of sins.
Sadly these things are trying to be stamped out from fundamentalists as to replace the choking grip of fear they use as a form to maintain followers with a chain of ignorant tranquility by avoiding the very espousings of their books. This also leads me to believe the belief in hell creates ignorance as Abrahamic faiths are decreasing in populatory girth.

As recent Gallup polls have suggested American adherence to be around 78% and can vary from 75% and having dealt with the others first hand I can validate this with a testimony of profound candour and veracity​

 

[Skwim]

It appears to me that those who believe in hell are prone to the most harsh of actions. Looking at Christians in the past and Muslims in the present it seems obvious to me that religious adherents who accept the literal existence of hell for non-believers are the most malicious in their views towards others.
Despite the warm smiles they give and enthusiastic handshakes they believe that non believers go to hell. You never see them have sorrow or regret about this. They just accept it like a known fact.
Such theological concepts appear to create desensitization of torture, agony and death. The primary 2 religions who have spent centuries pillaging and plundering are Christianity and Islam. Now it is not the religion itself but just 1 minor aspect of it which is taught to the general population of adherents and that is hell. With hell neither religion would require conversion as there would be no need for it and neither would have the necessity to kill in order to establish religious rulership of any kind.
Hell does not prevent evil from being done by offering a concept of divine retribution. The most evil acts done have been those that believe in hell.

The very concept of hell is used as a control mechanism and brings forth barbarism from people only to hath it spread. This of course can be validated through all of history and crawl itself up the ladder of occurrences to the present.
I have also been informed of many Catholics removal of a fiery inferno from their doctrine which brings great joy to me oddly. Ahmadis do not even believe in a eternal hell and only view it as a truly just place for the wicked to enter and be purged of sins.
Sadly these things are trying to be stamped out from fundamentalists as to replace the choking grip of fear they use as a form to maintain followers with a chain of ignorant tranquility by avoiding the very espousings of their books. This also leads me to believe the believe in hell creates ignorance as Abrahamic faiths are decreasing in populatory girth.

As recent Gallup polls have suggested American adherence to be around 78% and can vary from 75% and having dealt with the others first hand I can validate this with a testimony of profound candour and veracity​

Why the center alignment? I don't know about others, but I find it difficult too read, so I'm passing on the thread. :run:

 

[Sha'irullah]

Why the center alignment? I don't know about others, but I find it difficult too read, so I'm passing on the thread. :run:

How can you dislike the center alignment? I found it easier to view because of my poor vision. It resembles an 1600's village dictate for crying out loud

 

[Sleeppy]

The people that make Hell inclusive to everyone but themselves are speaking as a result of their ego. Hell is a description of the human condition. IMO.

 

[Ashoka]

It appears to me that those who believe in hell are prone to the most harsh of actions. Looking at Christians in the past and Muslims in the present it seems obvious to me that religious adherents who accept the literal existence of hell for non-believers are the most malicious in their views towards others.
Despite the warm smiles they give and enthusiastic handshakes they believe that non believers go to hell. You never see them have sorrow or regret about this. They just accept it like a known fact.
Such theological concepts appear to create desensitization of torture, agony and death. The primary 2 religions who have spent centuries pillaging and plundering are Christianity and Islam. Now it is not the religion itself but just 1 minor aspect of it which is taught to the general population of adherents and that is hell. With hell neither religion would require conversion as there would be no need for it and neither would have the necessity to kill in order to establish religious rulership of any kind.
Hell does not prevent evil from being done by offering a concept of divine retribution. The most evil acts done have been those that believe in hell.

The very concept of hell is used as a control mechanism and brings forth barbarism from people only to hath it spread. This of course can be validated through all of history and crawl itself up the ladder of occurrences to the present.
I have also been informed of many Catholics removal of a fiery inferno from their doctrine which brings great joy to me oddly. Ahmadis do not even believe in a eternal hell and only view it as a truly just place for the wicked to enter and be purged of sins.
Sadly these things are trying to be stamped out from fundamentalists as to replace the choking grip of fear they use as a form to maintain followers with a chain of ignorant tranquility by avoiding the very espousings of their books. This also leads me to believe the believe in hell creates ignorance as Abrahamic faiths are decreasing in populatory girth.

As recent Gallup polls have suggested American adherence to be around 78% and can vary from 75% and having dealt with the others first hand I can validate this with a testimony of profound candour and veracity​

:clap:clap:clap

 

[Sha'irullah]

The people that make Hell exclusive to everyone but themselves are speaking as a result of their ego. Hell is a description of the human condition. IMO.

Very truthful. Hell is a place where the inferiors reap punishment for their intellectual thinking and not their blind acceptance.
To say one's own religion is the only true one is a statement of ego and not of truth because if such a truth was self evident its need for contentious and arduous acceptance would not exist. A truth is not vague and complex it is best that it assigns itself to Occam's Razor of simplistic theorizing.
Is it not a truth that one has 2 hands? Or that gravity exists?

If any religion was so truthful and perfect then assuredly no demand for strenuous debate would be needed to validate the claims of the religion. The lengthy holy books babbling on into the infinite and unknown benefit nobody but the people who believe they are being benefited from.

Hell is indeed a concept to stroke one's ego and not offer just retribution. The very concept of it as uttered from the tongues of some only offer idiocy as a shield and stupidity as a sword.

 

[Sleeppy]

Very truthful. Hell is a place where the inferiors reap punishment for their intellectual thinking and not their blind acceptance.
To say one's own religion is the only true one is a statement of ego and not of truth because if such a truth was self evident its need for contentious and arduous acceptance would not exist. A truth is not vague and complex it is best that it assigns itself to Occam's Razor of simplistic theorizing.
Is it not a truth that one has 2 hands? Or that gravity exists?

If any religion was so truthful and perfect then assuredly no demand for strenuous debate would be needed to validate the claims of the religion. The lengthy holy books babbling on into the infinite and unknown benefit nobody but the people who believe they are being benefited from.

Hell is indeed a concept to stroke one's ego and not offer just retribution. The very concept of it as uttered from the tongues of some only offer idiocy as a shield and stupidity as a sword.

Still a truth though. There is a type of hell everywhere except the Father, because He is the only one who is All Perfection. The only Good, as He says by Jesus. The seperations and imperfections create what is considered death and hell here, but considered Birth in Heaven. An individual is created. An only begotten. All of them, including inanimate objects, conquering space. Everything moves, from the most basic building blocks before Atoms, outward. They call God living, God says I Am. By saying I Am, He claims everything that exists. Everything can claim I Am, because I Am, or existence, is everything.

The Bible clearly indulges in figurative language. And some of the knowledge of these figurative languages gets lost or forgotton or dismissed. Why else would Jesus say to cut off your limbs and throw them to hell, except to point at each person individually. If the logic is that your limbs cause sin, then there would have been people chopping away. These people knew the mind and the spirit were, in effect atleast, the same thing. They were looking for Heaven to come to them. So Jesus says the 'Kingdom of Heaven is near,' speaking of His mind and His Spirit. He is a Teacher, a Reformer, a Helper, a Creator etc. as they called Him. They called Him everything from God to Son of God to King of Kings to Father to Son of Man. The Kingdom was near, in Jesus eyes according even to His name, which means God with Us. They sought to keep Jesus and His capability with them. And He is described as seeking to do that as well. He is said to have, by a few disciples, convert much, and eventually all, of the world to His way. In other words, lifting people out of hell.

I am convinced that within the next few hundred years, with medical, scientific, and social advances- that criminal/sinful behaviour will be increasingly curable. And worth curing. And then if anything is a prophecy, let space exoloration be actualized. The Bible calls space, 'the heavens.'

 

[Philomath]

Still a truth though.

Can you prove that hell is a truth?

There is a type of hell everywhere except the Father, because He is the only one who is All Perfection.

If God is Omnipresent that means he's in hell too.

The Bible calls space, 'the heavens.'

What Bible passage is that?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

If Europeans back in the good old days had only reserved torture and pillage for members of other religions, then you'd have a point. But... they didn't. This was simply how society understood warfare in that particular time period. Different set of values, which we cannot blame on Hell because these values were shared by many nations who were not Christian or Muslim. Pillage and plunder was a simple fact of war, across much of the world. The Mongols, for example, loved a bit of rape and pillage, but could you say they were motivated by Hell?

Back to Europe. Lots of rape, pillaging and murdering was around in the Hundred Years War between England and France, for example. They shared the same religion and I highly doubt any belief in Hell would have motivated them, in fact it would probably be an obstacle if they were to consider that they and their Catholic opponents could be ending up in the same place (heaven).

It's easy to pick at and criticise those who came before us, but 100 years from now I wonder how many will be calling us sadistic for having the death penalty, or allowing gun ownership, or eating meat.

Not that I am condoning any of the behaviour of medieval Europeans. I'm not. But to try and pose that a different society's values was based on their idea of Hell is a bit far-fetched.

 

[Sleeppy]

Can you prove that hell is a truth?

If God is Omnipresent that means he's in hell too.

What Bible passage is that?

Hell is self evident. A description of stagnation, or death. Hellfire is destruction, as Jesus says.

Because God is the Creator, or as Jesus clarifies further, the Father of all- His being is found in all of existence. As you know, when something becomes stagnant, or dead, or destroyed, it does not cease existing, but retreats to another form, or to other forms -plural. This is also why Jesus calls the Son of Man, Lord of the Sabbath, or rest. God becomes all things from Son of God down to the Son of Man, suffering and dying as man, but being Lord, resurrecting man to the Son of God.

Matthew 16:3

 

[Philomath]

Hell is self evident. A description of stagnation, or death. Hellfire is destruction, as Jesus says.

Hell is not self evident. Do you have any proof that hell exists?

Because God is the Creator, or as Jesus clarifies further, the Father of all- His being is found in all of existence. As you know, when something becomes stagnant, or dead, or destroyed, it does not cease existing, but retreats to another form, or to other forms -plural. This is also why Jesus calls the Son of Man, Lord of the Sabbath, or rest. God becomes all things from Son of God down to the Son of Man, suffering and dying as man, but being Lord, resurrecting man to the Son of God.

Ok? I don't understand how any of this is relevant to my question though.

Matthew 16:3

Matthew 16:3

New International Version (NIV)

3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.[a]

No where in this verse does the bible call space the "heavens".

 

[Sleeppy]

Hell is not self evident. Do you have any proof that hell exists?

Ok? I don't understand how any of this is relevant to my question though.

No where in this verse does the bible call space the "heavens".

Are you dying? Or deteriorating, as a human being? This is hellfire. Self evident.

I was attempting to explain God's omnipresence to you, in relation to hell.

Sky, in that translation is a translation from 'heavens.' There are many references. Elijah was taken into the heavens. A search would show these. I use the YLT translation.

 

[Philomath]

Are you dying? Or deteriorating, as a human being? This is hellfire. Self evident.

I'm not dying or deteriorating. So you don't believe in a literal place called hell then?

Sky, in that translation is a translation from 'heavens.' There are many references. Elijah was taken into the heavens. A search would show these. I use the YLT translation.

Ok let me rephrase my question then. Is there anywhere in the bible where it explicitly calls the Heavens Space?

 

[BruceDLimber]

It appears to me that those who believe in hell are prone to the most harsh of actions.

Then you are clearly unfamiliar with Baha'is and the Baha'i Faith, which both believes in hell (as spiritual separation from God) and which endeavors to avoid harsh actions, the more so given that our scriptures say that hell is not an eternal condition!

A bit more investigation about this topic would doubtless be of considerable help.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Sleeppy]

I'm not dying or deteriorating. So you don't believe in a literal place called hell then?



Ok let me rephrase my question then. Is there anywhere in the bible where it explicitly calls the Heavens Space?

Do you know why human beings die and are buried? The place where death is, is called hell. Therefore when men die, they are buried. Hell or Sheol is a grave. If you search for the meaning of these Biblical words, hell or sheol, it is translated as 'grave.'

The most obvious explicit saying I can recall, without a Google search is both Elijah ascending and Jesus ascending. Both were said to have been seen ascending visually. Going from the ground upward until they were no longer in view.

Another more obvious example now in my mind comes from Genesis. God creates the heavens (placing stars, the sun, the moon) and the Earth. A search will show these examples.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Then you are clearly unfamiliar with Baha'is and the Baha'i Faith, which both believes in hell (as spiritual separation from God) and which endeavors to avoid harsh actions, the more so given that our scriptures say that hell is not an eternal condition!

A bit more investigation about this topic would doubtless be of considerable help.

Peace,

Bruce

This may be a surprise to you but I never claimed Baha'is believe in hell and this is not new to me int he slightest as I have already studied about the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Philomath]

Do you know why human beings die and are buried? The place where death is, is called hell. Therefore when men die, they are buried. Hell or Sheol is a grave. If you search for the meaning of these Biblical words, hell or sheol, it is translated as 'grave.

I know Sheol means the grave. I thought you might be one of those Christians who believe that hell is a place of eternal torment.

The most obvious explicit saying I can recall, without a Google search is both Elijah ascending and Jesus ascending. Both were said to have been seen ascending visually. Going from the ground upward until they were no longer in view.

That doesn't imply that it was space though.

Another more obvious example now in my mind comes from Genesis. God creates the heavens (placing stars, the sun, the moon) and the Earth. A search will show these examples.

That's an example I can agree upon.

 

[Sleeppy]

I know Sheol means the grave. I thought you might be one of those Christians who believe that hell is a place of eternal torment.



That doesn't imply that it was space though.



That's an example I can agree upon.

The reason it is described as age-during or eternal, is because as I stated before, it is a description of change. Heaven and hell are, aside from physical dimensions, descriptions of transformations or movements into space and time. Ascending and descending. Revelations throws both death and hell into the lake of fire. The lake of fire represents hellfire- deterioration or destruction. Hell and death, ironically die. Obviously this is a description of moving from stagnation to growth. Or death to life as it clarifies of itself.

Everyone and everything dies and is transformed. This includes heaven and earth, which are said to be passing away, by Jesus. The old gives birth to new. The Father gives birth to the Son, etc.

 

[BruceDLimber]

This may be a surprise to you but I never claimed Baha'is believe in hell, and this is not new to me int he slightest as I have already studied about the Baha'i Faith.

I never said you stated it, but you clearly made a broad generalization which the Baha'i Faith doesn't fit--and further, you neglected to mention that exceptions to it exist!

So my point holds.

And while you may indeed have studied it, once again, your words indicate--at the very least--that you hadn't already understood what I just said about it.

Bruce

 

[Sha'irullah]

I never said you stated it, but you clearly made a broad generalization which the Baha'i Faith doesn't fit--and further, you neglected to mention that exceptions to it exist!

So my point holds.

And while you may indeed have studied it, once again, your words indicate--at the very least--that you hadn't already understood what I just said about it.

Bruce

I am only addressing the religions which believe in hell. Creating a list of exceptions is quite long and unlike common theory more religions deny hell then accept its existence.


Also I understand and have known what you have stated for almost 3 years actually. Why would I include your faith about a topic that does not pertain to it? .

What you are essentially doing is trying to make me put a unjustified bullet into something that does not deserve to be shot at.
Baha'ism is an innocent faith and is not to be accused of the things I am negating about other religions. You should be happy I did not mention it.
I also stated that those who believe in hell are prone to the harshest of actions. So are you trying to claim that Baha'ism is a "harsh" religion? see my point now?