Hell-Believers

[BruceDLimber]

I am only addressing the religions which believe in hell. Creating a list of exceptions is quite long and unlike common theory more religions deny hell then accept its existence.

Also I understand and have known what you have stated for almost 3 years actually. Why would I include your faith about a topic that does not pertain to it?

So sorry, but Baha'is do indeed believe in hell--as you'd quickly discover if you bothered to read our scriptures--and so is EMINENTLY RELEVANT for this discussion.

Bruce

 

[Sha'irullah]

So sorry, but Baha'is do indeed believe in hell--as you'd quickly discover if you bothered to read our scriptures--and so is EMINENTLY RELEVANT for this discussion.

Bruce

The majority stance has always been that it is only metaphorical in nature and not literal. So it appears we have a split in the acceptance of it

 

[Me Myself]

Of course its eqsier to be fanatic when you believe in hell.

Imagine that someone tells you that your daughter will be tortured for eternity on the worst way possible if she starts going to the hindu temple AND YOU BELIEVE IT.

Now try to imagine it for a second, try to imagine actually BELIEVING it. Dont you think the likelihood of you doing something desperate has gone dramatically up?

Its not even her life. She will be tortured for INFINITY, crying, pleading and swearing and spiting curses and hating and in pain, the most deep and horrorful pain you can ever imagine.

If you have any heart in you, and you managed to buy that, congrats! You became a desperate madman!

 

[Sha'irullah]

Of course its eqsier to be fanatic when you believe in hell.

Imagine that someone tells you that your daughter will be tortured for eternity on the worst way possible if she starts going to the hindu temple AND YOU BELIEVE IT.

Now try to imagine it for a second, try to imagine actually BELIEVING it. Dont you think the likelihood of you doing something desperate has gone dramatically up?

Its not even her life. She will be tortured for INFINITY, crying, pleading and swearing and spiting curses and hating and in pain, the most deep and horrorful pain you can ever imagine.

If you have any heart in you, and you managed to buy that, congrats! You became a desperate madman!

It is not the religion itself or its followers as a whole that worry me but the fact that people believe this. The end result has always been chaos and violence.
I also find it more ironic that many claim that hell is a place god has created to prevent people from murder yet the people who believe they are going to hell are the most fluent murders as history has displayed so frequently.

Religions are slowly beginning to view their books and source materials as just what they are which is ancient fallible constructs. They should be open to critique and rejection.

It shames me to hear Christians say that they believe in the Bible yet think hell is metaphorical in nature. I would prefer it if an honest Christian just said he/she does not agree with the Bible. Nothing is wrong with this. Ideas get rejection all the time in science for they are treated as facts, this is no different

 

[Sculelos]

Hell is not continual eternal torture. Hell is Death. Hell is the loss of the Energy that was you.

The word Torture actually means "To Test for Purity", once you die, your test is finished and you will be judged based on how pure the energy that you was.

We only have 1 shot at this however as our souls are no different then our bodies. Before the next World is created all will be judged based on their purity. The forms capable of being cleansed will be cleansed while those who are corrupted will be destroyed.

The after-effects (Smoke) of our testing (torment) will last forever and the worm (our choices) and the fire (the consequences of our actions) will last forever (for all time).

Therefore if we want to live eternal we must always look for and believe what we believe to be true and right no matter what our circumstances are or what anyone else tells us.

Truth will find you out. Be strong and don't back down when you are being tested and salvation will find you.

 

[BruceDLimber]

The majority stance has always been that it is only metaphorical in nature and not literal.

First off, Baha'i doctrine and teaching isn't determined by "majority stance": our scriptures are quite clear about what constitutes the Baha'i Faith.

And whether you call hell "metaphorical" or not, the fact remains that it clearly and literally exists as spiritual separation from God, just as our scriptures describe it.

Bruce

 

[Sha'irullah]

First off, Baha'i doctrine and teaching isn't determined by "majority stance": our scriptures are quite clear about what constitutes the Baha'i Faith.

And whether you call hell "metaphorical" or not, the fact remains that it clearly and literally exists as spiritual separation from God, just as our scriptures describe it.

Bruce

I have been referring to a fiery pit of torture not separation from god this entire time. You have just confirmed my earlier statements.
I am referencing parts of scripture such as the Qur'an which uses an eternal fiery interrogation chamber as the concept of hell.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I have been referring to a fiery pit of torture not separation from god this entire time.... I am referencing parts of scripture such as the Qur'an which uses an eternal fiery interrogation chamber as the concept of hell.

Then you are addressing neither Baha'i teaching nor Baha'i doctrine.

If you want to describe that as Islamic, fine!

But it's simply not part of our view, nor do we typically use such metaphors.

Bruce

 

[Sha'irullah]

Then you are addressing neither Baha'i teaching nor Baha'i doctrine.

If you want to describe that as Islamic, fine!

But it's simply not part of our view, nor do we typically use such metaphors.

Bruce

I stated in the very first post of this thread I was referring to Christianity and Islam primarily. I never mentioned Baha'ism at all.

 

[marvek32]

The Holy scriptures clearly consumes in figurative terminology. And some of the information of these figurative 'languages' gets missing or forgotten or ignored. Why else would Christ say to cut off your divisions and toss them to terrible, except to factor at each individual individually.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I stated in the very first post of this thread I was referring to Christianity and Islam primarily. I never mentioned Baha'ism at all.

All right.

And for the record, the correct term is the Baha'i Faith; "Baha'ism" is a malaprop.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[ignition]

It is not the religion itself or its followers as a whole that worry me but the fact that people believe this. The end result has always been chaos and violence.

Firstly, correlation does not imply causation. And secondly, it is convenient to point the finger at Christians and Muslims and say "look at how violent they are, it is because they believe in hellfire", when the fact is that the majority of the world is either Christian or Muslim and this has been the case for over a thousand years so yes, naturally there will be more violence emanating from these two groups since these groups have always dominated the world's population.

I can give you the names of individuals who committed atrocities and who didn't believe in Hellfire, perhaps you'd like to think up another botched explanation for why they are so violent mmhm?

 

[Sha'irullah]

All right.

And for the record, the correct term is the Baha'i Faith; "Baha'ism" is a malaprop.

Peace,

Bruce

Baha'ism sounds amazingly awesome and I do not go with what is proper but just with what is entertaining to say.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Firstly, correlation does not imply causation. And secondly, it is convenient to point the finger at Christians and Muslims and say "look at how violent they are, it is because they believe in hellfire", when the fact is that the majority of the world is either Christian or Muslim and this has been the case for over a thousand years so yes, naturally there will be more violence emanating from these two groups since these groups have always dominated the world's population.

There are almost a billion Hindus and people of other faiths combined yet it does not match up to the violence released by Abrahamic faiths. We are also not discussing violence from the faith but the belief in hell.

The belief in hell is sadistic and to look at others knowing they are going to hell is the issue.

I can give you the names of individuals who committed atrocities and who didn't believe in Hellfire, perhaps you'd like to think up another botched explanation for why they are so violent mmhm?

This is just an insult to hide your stupidity. Hitler was an atheist and killed massive amounts of people along with other Communist states which promoted Atheism. Genghis Khan is another unforgettable.

It seems almost everybody who reads my posts is either trolling or has no comprehension of English. WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE. I am solely referring to the emotional state of others who believe in hell. The sadistic concept of it and how people who believe in it look at people of other faiths knowing they will be tortured for eternity.

 

[ignition]

This is just an insult to hide your stupidity.

I would say the stupid person is the one who created a causal link between violence and the belief in hell....

 

[ZooGirl02]

I don't see anything sadistic about believing in Hell. I believe that is a belief in justice. God is perfectly just and Hell is perfectly just. Also, a person who goes to Hell for lying is going to suffer less of a punishment in Hell than someone who goes to Hell for committing genocide. Nobody in Hell suffers the exact same thing as someone else in Hell. That is just my personal opinion of course. However, I do believe it is Catholic doctrine that the suffering one suffers in Hell is proportionate to the sins one committed on earth which one died unrepentant of.

 

[Me Myself]

I don't see anything sadistic about believing in Hell. I believe that is a belief in justice. God is perfectly just and Hell is perfectly just. Also, a person who goes to Hell for lying is going to suffer less of a punishment in Hell than someone who goes to Hell for committing genocide. Nobody in Hell suffers the exact same thing as someone else in Hell. That is just my personal opinion of course. However, I do believe it is Catholic doctrine that the suffering one suffers in Hell is proportionate to the sins one committed on earth which one died unrepentant of.

Eternal suffering is plain injustice.

That's it.

 

[Ashoka]

I don't see anything sadistic about believing in Hell. I believe that is a belief in justice.

The belief in hell is sick and inhumane, and any god that would create such a place for those who do not believe in the right religion to go, for all eternity to suffer, is an enemy and an asura (demon) to me.

 

[Vinayaka]

Just as other factors of the Abrahamic faiths are totally irrelevant to followers of dharmic faiths, so should hell be. If you believe hell doesn't exist , why even bother to discuss it? Just be calm in the knowledge of it's non-existence, and let the people who believe in do the worrying.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I would say the stupid person is the one who created a causal link between violence and the belief in hell....

You are aware that you made the link and not myself right? Hence you are the only one discussing the wrong subject :biglaugh: