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Hell is not a Pagan belief

Many Sages One Truth

Active Member
You know, no disrespect, but I wish JW's would back up their statement when they say: "hell and eternal torment are Pagan". No they are not. I have not studied any ancient or modern Pagan religion that teaches eternal torment, or hell like some Christians believe in.

Can anyone demonstrate that hell is a Pagan belief? I'd love to see it.
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
What about Hades in Greco-Roman mythos or Helheim in Norse mythos. They aren't 100% identical to Hell but they sure are similar in some ways.
 

Many Sages One Truth

Active Member
What about Hades in Greco-Roman mythos or Helheim in Norse mythos. They aren't 100% identical to Hell but they sure are similar in some ways.

That's what I'm saying. They're not identical to hell, and as for similarities, Hades really isn't all that similar to hell. Hades contains several different realms like Tartarus, Elysian Fields, the fields of Asphodel, etc. The only one who will remain in Tarturus forever in Greek mythos is Kronos. There are several myths in which others escape from there, and according to the Romans, even Kronos eventually escaped there and became Saturn, patron god of Rome.
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
There are several Pagan religions that had a negative afterlife, but obviously none are identical to the Christian concept of Hell. The Norse Hel was fairly Brutal. Tartarus Is similar in many ways to Dante's Inferno. The Egyptians had a dangerous Underworld filled with demons. I believe the Zoroastrians had a Hell for sinners ruled over by Ahriman. The mythology that went into forming the Christian Hell is fascinating.

If you're interested, this video goes through the formation of Hell and Satan over the millennia:

[youtube]lJQaVKoxd64[/youtube]
‪The History of the Devil 1/5‬‏ - YouTube
 

Many Sages One Truth

Active Member
Did any of these ancient societies teach that it was eternal? Again, to my knowledge, none of them did. The Egyptian underworld was not a hell, because even the hall of two truths and the afterlife were part of it. The Egyptian underworld was a place of trial and purification.
 

Many Sages One Truth

Active Member
JW's don't bother to explain what Pagans actually believed or believe about these afterlife realms, they just say that the Orthodox Christian hell is Pagan.
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
MSOT,
Would you consider it inaccurate to say the "Orthodox Christian hell" has influences/elements from pagan religions?
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
Did any of these ancient societies teach that it was eternal? Again, to my knowledge, none of them did. The Egyptian underworld was not a hell, because even the hall of two truths and the afterlife were part of it. The Egyptian underworld was a place of trial and purification.

Possibly the Zoroastrians? I'm not certain, though they do share a lot of similarities with Christianity (they were a precursor to it in many ways).

As for the Egyptians, yes the Underworld was a place of trial, but that didn't mean an unlucky or ill prepared soul wouldn't be devoured either by Ammut or the various demons. You have to remember that the Egyptians essentially bought the spells and scrolls needed to traverse the afterlife from the priesthood (in fact Ushabti slaves could also be bought if the person in question didn't fancy an eternity of farmwork). It's unclear what exactly happens to souls who don't make it, possibly oblivion?

Anyway, the Christian Hell is fairly unique, but echoes of it can be seen in other cultures from the Naraka of Buddhism to the imprisoned monsters and sinners in Tartarus. Many of the ancient beliefs served as precursors to Christianity and their Hells and Underworlds were amalgamated with the creation of Christianity's Hell.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
You know, no disrespect, but I wish JW's would back up their statement when they say: "hell and eternal torment are Pagan". No they are not. I have not studied any ancient or modern Pagan religion that teaches eternal torment, or hell like some Christians believe in.

Can anyone demonstrate that hell is a Pagan belief? I'd love to see it.


you do understand hell has evolved over a 1400 year period dont you??


it cant be pagan because its evolved from judaism when christianity split.




many cultures had life after death and places one would go when they die.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
You know, no disrespect, but I wish JW's would back up their statement when they say: "hell and eternal torment are Pagan". No they are not. I have not studied any ancient or modern Pagan religion that teaches eternal torment, or hell like some Christians believe in.

Can anyone demonstrate that hell is a Pagan belief? I'd love to see it.

I don't think that JW's are the only ones who believe this.

And I agree with you.
 

Otherright

Otherright
You know, no disrespect, but I wish JW's would back up their statement when they say: "hell and eternal torment are Pagan". No they are not. I have not studied any ancient or modern Pagan religion that teaches eternal torment, or hell like some Christians believe in.

Can anyone demonstrate that hell is a Pagan belief? I'd love to see it.

You're right, it isn't. Its Greek dualism.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
What about Zoroastrianism? It is as though the early Christian church virtually copied it.

Everyone who sins will only be punished for three days in Zoroastrian thought, though. IIRC, anyway.


Can anyone demonstrate that hell is a Pagan belief? I'd love to see it.
I don't think it is, and I think it comes from a literalistic reading of the Bible, but... playing Devil's Advocate, what about Tartarus? It's not a Lake of Fire, I know that much.

Of course, there is a literal interpretation of Naraka that could be taken from Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism - however, I very much doubt these could have influenced Christianity's philosophy.
 

kai

ragamuffin
his is interesting:

Zoroastrianism also includes beliefs about the renovation of the world and individual judgment (cf. general and particular judgment), including the resurrection of the dead.
Individual judgment at death is by the Bridge of Judgment, which each human must cross, facing a spiritual judgment. Humans' actions under their free will determine the outcome. One is either greeted at the bridge by a beautiful, sweet-smelling maiden or by an ugly, foul-smelling old woman. The maiden leads the dead safely across the bridge to the Amesha Spenta Good Mind, who carries the dead to paradise. The old woman leads the dead down a bridge that narrows until the departed falls off into the abyss of hell.[38]
Zoroastrian hell is reformative; punishments fit the crimes, and souls do not rest in eternal damnation. Hell contains foul smells and evil food, and souls are packed tightly together although they believe they are in total isolation.[38]
In Zoroastrian eschatology, a 3,000-year struggle between good and evil will be fought, punctuated by evil's final assault. During the final assault, the sun and moon will darken and mankind will lose its reverence for religion, family, and elders. The world will fall into winter, and Angra Mainyu's most fearsome miscreant, Azi Dahaka, will break free and terrorize the world.[38]
The final savior of the world, Saoshyant, will be born to a virgin impregnated by the seed of Zoroaster while bathing in a lake. Saoshyant will raise the dead – including those in both heaven and hell – for final judgment, returning the wicked to hell to be purged of bodily sin. Next, all will wade through a river of molten metal in which the righteous will not burn. Heavenly forces will ultimately triumph over evil, rendering it forever impotent. Saoshyant and Ahura Mazda will offer a bull as a final sacrifice for all time, and all men will become immortal. Mountains will again flatten and valleys will rise; heaven will descend to the moon, and the earth will rise to meet them both.[38]
Man requires two judgments because there are as many aspects to his being: spiritual (menog) and physical (getig).[38



Zoroastrianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

839311

Well-Known Member
Did any of these ancient societies teach that it was eternal? Again, to my knowledge, none of them did. The Egyptian underworld was not a hell, because even the hall of two truths and the afterlife were part of it. The Egyptian underworld was a place of trial and purification.

They are similar enough that it is easy to see where the inspiration would have come from. Good ol' Christianity has them all trumped though. In Christianity, people will be tormented in hell forever. Forever. What a disgusting idea.
 

kaknelson

Member
I would say as a pagan whos been both with the Orthodox Church and my current religon say that hell was definetly influenced by the part of the Underworld called Tartarus. It all goes back to when to the 5th century AD when monks and priests relaizing they could not convert the locals to Christianity by Scripture began to use threat of eternal torment ie Tartarus to convert the masses and this is how Christianity became the domiant religon in Greece and Europe. Plus the ravging of our sacret temples and the persecution of our priests could be a reason too.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I would say as a pagan whos been both with the Orthodox Church and my current religon say that hell was definetly influenced by the part of the Underworld called Tartarus. It all goes back to when to the 5th century AD when monks and priests relaizing they could not convert the locals to Christianity by Scripture began to use threat of eternal torment ie Tartarus to convert the masses and this is how Christianity became the domiant religon in Greece and Europe. Plus the ravging of our sacret temples and the persecution of our priests could be a reason too.


is not tartarus in the bible as a temporary holding place for angles??
 
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