Hell is not a Pagan belief

[outhouse]

I would like to know its temperature for instance.

the answer would be at what point in time??. As it evolved the fiery lava filled red devil and pitchfork time,,, would be different

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Im not sure its relevant, because as a historical place gehenna really has no evidence it existed as a 24/7 burning dump as described. If it had been there would be archeological evidence and allthough we have evidence from that time, nothing in the valley anywhere indicated it was used as such.
That would leave Gehenna as a mythical place which makes more sense.

'Gehenna' or the Greek form of the Hebrew Geh Hinnom' [Valley of Hinnom]
Gehenna has been translated into English as hell or hellfire.

[The biblical hell is: sheol or hades/haides Not Gehenna]

Gehenna was a deep narrow valley that was south and southwest of ancient Jerusalem. Modern day: Wadi er-Rababi [Ge Ben Hinnom]
-[Joshua 15v8; 18v16; Jeremiah 19vs2,6].

Ahaz and Manasseh made forbidden human sacrifices there.
-[2 Chron 28vs1,3; 33vs1,6; Jeremiah 7vs31,32; 32v35]

Things were destroyed [incinerated] in Gehenna not kept burning forever.
Wouldn't it had been easier to keep some sort, some degree, of incinerating fire going rather then to keep starting and stopping it all the time ?

 

[ForeverFaithful]

You know, no disrespect, but I wish JW's would back up their statement when they say: "hell and eternal torment are Pagan". No they are not. I have not studied any ancient or modern Pagan religion that teaches eternal torment, or hell like some Christians believe in.

Can anyone demonstrate that hell is a Pagan belief? I'd love to see it.

It's not a JW beleif it's scriptual

Martin Luther, whom I look up to one of the world's greatest biblical scholars held this belief.

God himself said the sinners would be consumed(Mal 4:1) and Jesus echoed with in (Matt 10:28)
These verses (which are two of many) were made a mockery when Plato began to be quoted as scripture in the 2nd century (It didn't help that the Pharisees and the Greco-Roman pagan converts keep many of their Hellenistic beliefs prior to this)
Once the Church came to power it began to captialise on a misunderstanding of the Greek word "anion" to mean something without end (which it can but at times it clearly doesn't Jude 1:7 for example, or in the Greek Old Testament Jonah 2:6 and Samuel 1:28)
They then swept away the languages of perishing (John 3:16) death (Rom 6:23) and destruection (Matt 10:28) to mean suffering, which is odd because the first person to say the sinner will not die was Satan (Gen 3:4)
You can go ahead and believe whatever you want but to say conditional immortality is unbiblical, the burdern of proof is on you.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

The idea of eternal hell and heaven is unique, but its incorrect, if you look at any other culture where a afterlife is prescribed it is very rarely said to be Eternal, its because the culture and civilizations which understood what eternal meant, could not come to a conclusion that hell or heaven can be eternal, as this entire universe is a process of destruction and creation nothing which is created can last for eternity, as if it is eternal it was never created, therefore the entire concept of something created that last for eternity is against the laws of nature, as for where the Christian got this concept it is clear that they did not understand the concept of eternal fully, because everything that has been discribed in hell is also available in this material universe, eg fire, pain ect. so how can it be eternal?

 

[SCHIZO]

Did any of these ancient societies teach that it was eternal? Again, to my knowledge, none of them did. The Egyptian underworld was not a hell, because even the hall of two truths and the afterlife were part of it. The Egyptian underworld was a place of trial and purification.

Sheol (hell) is a place of trial and purification also.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Sheol (hell) is a place of trial and purification also.

While sinless Jesus was in the 'biblical hell' [sheol] what trial and/or purification did Jesus undergo ?

Didn't Jesus teach what the Hebrew Scriptures taught?
The Hebrew OT Scriptures teach the dead know nothing in a sleep-like state.
[Ecclesiastes 9v5; Psalms 6v5;13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Daniel 12vs2,13]

That is why Jesus believed the dead are in a sleeping state. John 11vs11-14
That would also mean that while Jesus was in the 'biblical hell' that he would be in an unconscious sleep-like state until God resurrected Jesus.
-Acts 2vs27,31,32.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

While sinless Jesus was in the 'biblical hell' [sheol] what trial and/or purification did Jesus undergo ?

Didn't Jesus teach what the Hebrew Scriptures taught?
The Hebrew OT Scriptures teach the dead know nothing in a sleep-like state.
[Ecclesiastes 9v5; Psalms 6v5;13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Daniel 12vs2,13]

That is why Jesus believed the dead are in a sleeping state. John 11vs11-14
That would also mean that while Jesus was in the 'biblical hell' that he would be in an unconscious sleep-like state until God resurrected Jesus.
-Acts 2vs27,31,32.

Just as he rested on the Sabbath in the Grave and resurrected on Sunday

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The idea of eternal hell.........as for where the Christian got this concept it is clear that they did not understand the concept of eternal fully, because everything that has been discribed in hell is also available in this material universe, eg fire, pain ect. so how can it be eternal?

Or, rather 'so-called Christian' concept, because what the churches often teach is the 'non-biblical hell' concept of forever burning.

The idea of 'eternal hell' is Not taught in Scripture.
Please notice Revelation [20vs13,14]
Once everyone is 'delivered up' [meaning resurrected] out of hell [sheol]
Then, emptied-out hell [vacant of people] is cast into: second death.
The Bible's hell is not cast anywhere while people are in hell [sheol/hades]

The idea of eternity was presented to Adam.
If obedient Adam could live forever. Forever on a paradisaic earth.
If Adam obeyed God, then Adam would have everlasting life on earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Just as he rested on the Sabbath in the Grave and resurrected on Sunday

What 'trial or purification' did Jesus undergo while resting on the Sabbath ?

 

[ForeverFaithful]

What 'trial or purification' did Jesus undergo while resting on the Sabbath ?

I'm in agreement with you,
purgatory and eternal hellfire are non-christian

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm in agreement with you,
purgatory and eternal hellfire are non-christian

To me the ^above^ means you are in agreement with Scripture.

What do you think might be eternal, or is eternal or forever lasting?

 

[shawn001]

Zoroastrianism is the ancient, pre-Islamic religion of Persia (modern Iran). It survives there in isolated areas but more prosperously in India, where the descendants of Zoroastrian Persian immigrants are known as Parsis, or Parsees. In India the religion is called Parsiism.
Founded by the Iranian prophet and reformer Zoroaster in the 6th century BC, Zoroastrianism contains both monotheistic and dualistic features. Its concepts of one God, judgment, heaven and hell likely influenced the major Western religons of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Date founded: c.6th cent. BC Place founded: Ancient PersiaFounder: Zarathustra (Zoroaster) Adherents: 150-200,000 History

Zarathustra (in Greek, Zoroaster) was a Persian prophet who at the age of 30 believed he had seen visions of God, whom he called Ahura Mazda, the creator of all that is good and who alone is worthy of worship. This was a departure from previous Indo-Persian polytheism, and Zarathustra has been termed the first non-biblical monotheist. There is disagreement among scholars as to exactly when and where Zarathustra lived, but most agree that he lived in eastern Iran around the sixth century BC.
Zoroastrianism became the official religion of the Persian Empire, but it virtually disappeared in Persia after the Muslim invasion of 637 AD. Only about 10,000 survive in remote villages in Iran, but over the centuries many sought religious freedom in India.
Texts

The Zoroastrian sacred text is the Avesta ("Book of the Law"), a fragmentary collection of sacred writings. Compiled over many centuries, the Avesta was not completed until Persia's Sassanid dynasty (226-641 AD). It consists of: liturgical works with hymns ascribed to Zarathustra (the Gathas); invocations and rituals to be used at festivals; hymns of praise; and spells against demons and prescriptions for purification.
Beliefs

The Zoroastrian concept of God incorporates both monotheism and dualism. In his visions, Zarathustra was taken up to heaven, where Ahura Mazda revealed that he had an opponent, Aura Mainyu, the spirit and promoter of evil. Ahura Mazda charged Zarathustra with the task of inviting all human beings to choose between him (good) and Aura Mainyu (evil).
Though Zoroastrianism was never as aggressively monotheistic as Judaism or Islam, it does represent an original attempt at unifying under the worship of one supreme god a polytheistic religion comparable to those of the ancient Greeks, Latins, Indians, and other early peoples.
Its other salient feature, namely dualism, was never understood in an absolute, rigorous fashion. Good and Evil fight an unequal battle in which the former is assured of triumph. God's omnipotence is thus only temporarily limited.
Zoroaster taught that man must enlist in this cosmic struggle because of his capacity of free choice. Thus Zoroastrianism is a highly ethical religion in which the choice of good over evil has almost cosmic importance. Zarathustra taught that humans are free to choose between right and wrong, truth and lie, and light and dark, and that their choices would affect their eternity destiny.
The Zoroastrian afterlife is determined by the balance of the good and evil deeds, words, and thoughts of the whole life. For those whose good deeds outweight the bad, heaven awaits. Those who did more evil than good go to hell (which has several levels corresponding to degrees of wickedness). There is an intermediate stage for those whose deeds weight out equally.
This general principle is not absolute, however, but allows for human weakness. All faults do not have to be registered or weighed forever on the scales. There are two means of effacing them: confession and the transfer of supererogatory merits (similar to the Roman Catholic "Treasury of Merits"). The latter is the basis for Zoroastrian prayers and ceremonies for the departed.
Zoroaster invoked saviors who, like the dawns of new days, would come to the world. He hoped himself to be one of them. After his death, the belief in coming saviors developed. He also incorporated belief in angels and demons.
Zoroaster's ideas of ethical monotheism, heaven, hell, angelology, the resurrection of the body, and the messiah figure were influential on Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, though to what extent is not known for certain.

Zoroastrianism - ReligionFacts

 

[shawn001]

Why are so many Christians who subscribe to a hell so vague about its details? I would like to know its temperature for instance.

The below isn't true, but still pretty funny.

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid term.


Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?


Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle’s Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant.
One student, however, wrote the following:
First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let’s look at the different religions that exist in the world today.
Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle’s Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.
This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, “It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,” and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct……leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting “Oh my God.”

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

URAVIP2ME, Or, rather 'so-called Christian' concept, because what the churches often teach is the 'non-biblical hell' concept of forever burning.

The idea of 'eternal hell' is Not taught in Scripture.
Please notice Revelation [20vs13,14]
Once everyone is 'delivered up' [meaning resurrected] out of hell [sheol]
Then, emptied-out hell [vacant of people] is cast into: second death.
The Bible's hell is not cast anywhere while people are in hell [sheol/hades]

The idea of eternity was presented to Adam.
If obedient Adam could live forever. Forever on a paradisaic earth.
If Adam obeyed God, then Adam would have everlasting life on earth

But that "everlasting life on earth is not possible, according to biblical mythology the world will end on judgement day, how would Adam have had eternal life on this earth without the earth being available. and according to Revelation [20vs13,14], says that a empty hell will be cast into second death (meaning what exactly), here hell is like a empty vessel thrown in "second death", its described in a physical manner and so the question has arisen "Where is Hell or even heaven, and if the concept of eternity was presented to Adam and Adam knowing that the world will eventually end anyway, i think he made a good choice, as eternal life was just a empty promise.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

To me the ^above^ means you are in agreement with Scripture.

What do you think might be eternal, or is eternal or forever lasting?

As in Jude one:seven we see that eternal means simply until God's will is done, but I believe the eternal punishment of sinners is death,

 

[Heathen Hammer]

The Norse Hel was fairly Brutal.

Whoa hey, no it isn't. It's simply 'not Valhol', so, it sucks in the sense that it's 2nd place. You didn't go to the place one aspires to. It's not brutal, per se, certainly nothing like the Christian Hell. One might even experience Hel's embraces... if you wanna look forward to that sort of thing...

 

[Breathe]

One might even experience Hel's embraces... if you wanna look forward to that sort of thing...

Hmm? Can you elaborate more on this?
Can PM if you'd prefer.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

I don't have to whisper it. I'm just sayin', Hel is a Goddess who isn't a midriff-bearing Malibu beauty. She's the Goddess of Hel. She is Hel. Part of her essence is that of Death, and all that comes with it, and if you're there, well, what if you impress her. What if she wants a little of that.

What you gonna do?

 

[Breathe]

What you gonna do?

Ask to be friends?

I get you; thanks for the input.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But that "everlasting life on earth is not possible, according to biblical mythology the world will end on judgement day, how would Adam have had eternal life on this earth without the earth being available. and according to Revelation [20vs13,14], says that a empty hell will be cast into second death (meaning what exactly), here hell is like a empty vessel thrown in "second death", its described in a physical manner and so the question has arisen "Where is Hell or even heaven, and if the concept of eternity was presented to Adam and Adam knowing that the world will eventually end anyway, i think he made a good choice, as eternal life was just a empty promise.

Not Scripture, but perhaps according to 'clergy mythology' the world [earth] will end on judgment day. [Acts 20vs29,30]

According to Scripture the earth will always be available. [permanent]
[Ecclesiastes 1v4 B; Psalms 78v69 B; 93v1 B; 96v10 B; 104 vs5,30,35;
Isaiah 45 vs12,18;48v13; 1st Chron 16v30; Jeremiah 10 vs11,12]

Where is the Bible's hell [sheol]?
When Jesus was dead, Jesus was in the Bible's hell until God resurrected him.
[Acts 2 vs27,31,32] [burial ground is a physical/material place]
Jesus taught the dead are just in a sleep-like state at John 11vs11-14.
That meant that while Jesus was dead he would be in the biblical hell [sheol]
in an unconscious sleeping state. [Ecc9v5]. So, the Bible's hell is just the common grave of mankind. Even the word cemetery means: sleeping place.
If the dead were not dead there would be no need for a resurrection.
[Acts 24v15] The living immortal do not need a resurrection.

Where is heaven? According to 1st Kings [8v23] heaven is above,
and heaven or the heaven of heavens is God's home at verses 27,30,39,49.

What will end on judgment day is: death. 1st Cor 15v26; Isaiah 25v8.
What will end on judgment day is: hell. No more graves [cemeteries]

In Scripture the word 'day' does not always mean a 24-hr day.
Even in English we speak of 'grandfather's day' as more than a 24-hr day.
2nd Peter [3v8] in God's eyes a thousand years can be as a day.
Or even likened to a 'watch in the night' according to Psalm 90v4.
So, Jesus messianic day is a thousand-year judgment day.
[righteous have a favorable judgment. Matt 25v32,37]
Jesus' healings or curings were a small sample, or a token of advance blessings, that Jesus will shower down upon mankind on a LARGE or GRAND scale during Jesus earth-wide reign of 1000 years over earthly subjects.
[Rev 20v6; Psalm 72v8]

Jesus will fulfill God's promise to Abraham that all families of the earth will be blessed, and that all nations of the earth will be blessed.
'Blessed' with curing or healing according to Rev. 22v2; Genesis 22vs17,18.

Only Jesus can bring Peace on Earth. Jesus, as Prince of Peace,
can and Jesus will usher in global Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.