hello everyone!

[parts]

I have an extream dislike of relgion (with a few exceptions) but enjoy honest,non-
hostile debate.
I find it so odd that dispite the fact that the church used to burn people for belief in science, today reliegion seeks to backpeddle it's way from truth to dogma.

Here's my first ? for debate, How come jesus never taught the people of his time anything really usefull?? Such as medicine (like safe drinking water at the least!),
or advise the people of the truth around them; the earth is not flat and the earth is not the center of the universe (let alone killing those that figured it out on thier own).
It seems that although he had all the knowledge you can have he left it for the church bearing his name to torch or kill at will without stepping in to show them the truth?

 

[Revoltingest]

Greetings!
I can't answer any questions about Jesus. I never knew the guy.

 

[Wayofthespirit]

If Jesus irritates you so too would I so won't bother to upset you.

Mike.

 

[ChristineES]

Welcome to the RF. I doubt I can answer your questions in this particular debate (except to say that Jesus was more interested in the spirit and not the body), I hope to run into you in other debates.
I have a irrational love for my faith and for most any kind of faith, so we would be debating the opposite side, but I think we can get along, anyway.

 

[Riverwolf]

Namaste and welcome! :namaste

Here's my first ? for debate, How come jesus never taught the people of his time anything really usefull?? Such as medicine (like safe drinking water at the least!),

People already would have known that.

or advise the people of the truth around them; the earth is not flat and the earth is not the center of the universe (let alone killing those that figured it out on thier own).

Well, people already knew that one. Aristotle had proved that the world was round 600 years before Jesus lived.

Remember that Jesus was also an apocalyptic, and believed (and taught) that the world was soon coming to an end. Any information that would have been "useful" as you see it would have been a waste of time in his eyes. So, he taught his way of reaching God. One of his teachings was to seek God first, and that all else would follow.

 

[Wayofthespirit]

Riverwolf, that was a nice civilised reply compared with mine.

 

[parts]

Thanks for all the replies and corrections!
The idea that "seek god first and all else will follow" is an interesting thought.
To bad it is only a nice fuzzy, warm, idea. I have actually met a few "real" believers.
Those that I felt were not hypocrites, and truly felt a great love and faith of god.
Several of these very fine folks were very nieve and would not survive 10 sec's on thier own.
If it were true that by faith alone you would have all the answers to reality, then whe did so
many die horrible deaths for seeking the truth?
More to the point, why did god allow for the torture (in his name no less) of anyone that disagreed
with what the church put forth as truth?
One last point-All disasters used to be attributed to the anger of god. The church, leaders, rabbi,
clergy for centuries told the populous that this was truth. Now we know different. But it took
scientists-not any religion to give us that (and much more of course) knowledge.
Even to this day I meet those that will claim science to be an act of the devil with satan behind
every new discovery here on earth as well as beyond.
Thanks and much love to you all.
ron

 

[elmarna]

I belive he did help them.while there is symbology in the bible and no way to see how he thought or felt -the course of action is there.
FOR EXAMPLE...
The miracle of the fishes. While some theologins may not agree with me I feel that he used his wisdoms that those who were willing to accept found themselves with their needs met with the little resources available that normally left many starve.
While the wisdom is not stated and it is called a miricle; those at the time may indeed have felt to see or hear of it would catorgize it as a miricle!
Hope this helps!

 

[Riverwolf]

Thanks for all the replies and corrections!
The idea that "seek god first and all else will follow" is an interesting thought.
To bad it is only a nice fuzzy, warm, idea. I have actually met a few "real" believers.
Those that I felt were not hypocrites, and truly felt a great love and faith of god.
Several of these very fine folks were very nieve and would not survive 10 sec's on thier own.
If it were true that by faith alone you would have all the answers to reality, then whe did so
many die horrible deaths for seeking the truth?
More to the point, why did god allow for the torture (in his name no less) of anyone that disagreed
with what the church put forth as truth?
One last point-All disasters used to be attributed to the anger of god. The church, leaders, rabbi,
clergy for centuries told the populous that this was truth. Now we know different. But it took
scientists-not any religion to give us that (and much more of course) knowledge.
Even to this day I meet those that will claim science to be an act of the devil with satan behind
every new discovery here on earth as well as beyond.
Thanks and much love to you all.
ron

The problem of evil is a very difficult one, and one that many religions have attempted to answer. The best ones that I've ever seen, and even these are hardly all that satisfying to us worldly folk, is that there really isn't any real evil; that everything that happens to us is caused by our past actions in previous lives, and apparently bad things are meant as lessons. Of course, this only works if reincarnation is true, which really can't be established since no one has really figured out what exactly gets reincarnated.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

I have an extream dislike of relgion (with a few exceptions) but enjoy honest,non-
hostile debate.
I find it so odd that dispite the fact that the church used to burn people for belief in science, today reliegion seeks to backpeddle it's way from truth to dogma.

Here's my first ? for debate, How come jesus never taught the people of his time anything really usefull?? Such as medicine (like safe drinking water at the least!),
or advise the people of the truth around them; the earth is not flat and the earth is not the center of the universe (let alone killing those that figured it out on thier own).
It seems that although he had all the knowledge you can have he left it for the church bearing his name to torch or kill at will without stepping in to show them the truth?

Jesus was there to remind us of God within and without. How do you know Jesus didn't teach practical things? He wanted everyone to realize that loving and searching for God is the most practical and effective means of using one's time on earth.

Jesus did say, "Seek ye the kingdom of God and all else will be added unto you." God will take care of all facets of your life if you are earnestly seeking him. He pretty much does that anyway, but he also helps those that help themselves.

 

[parts]

Thanks again for the replies.

Most people seem to have the impression that god is somehow just and wise.
But all throughout the bible god is quite the opposite.
Case in point. Although humans are deemed less intelligent then god we do not punish
the innocent for the crimes of the guilty.
In fact, we are often sympathetic to the familey members who's lives are affected by
the bad behavior of loved ones.
God on the other hand is cruel.
The proof?, Eve screws up. But god is not content to punish her for her actions, but
instead punishes all her female decendants (several billion) by way of painfull birth and
menstration. The lion and the lamb slept together in the garden but after the sin the lamb
now needs to avoid being ripped apart alive by the lion.The pharoh of egypt was the one that refused to allow the jews thier freedom.Does god shove a stick up his bum ? no, god punishes the people while leaving the pharoh to still rule-never mind all the babies god kills(innocent and guiltless by the way).
I look forward to your opinions on this.
ron

 

[Riverwolf]

Thanks again for the replies.

Most people seem to have the impression that god is somehow just and wise.
But all throughout the bible god is quite the opposite.
Case in point. Although humans are deemed less intelligent then god we do not punish
the innocent for the crimes of the guilty.
In fact, we are often sympathetic to the familey members who's lives are affected by
the bad behavior of loved ones.
God on the other hand is cruel.
The proof?, Eve screws up. But god is not content to punish her for her actions, but
instead punishes all her female decendants (several billion) by way of painfull birth and
menstration. The lion and the lamb slept together in the garden but after the sin the lamb
now needs to avoid being ripped apart alive by the lion.The pharoh of egypt was the one that refused to allow the jews thier freedom.Does god shove a stick up his bum ? no, god punishes the people while leaving the pharoh to still rule-never mind all the babies god kills(innocent and guiltless by the way).
I look forward to your opinions on this.
ron

Well, my impression of God does not come from the Torah.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Thanks again for the replies.

Most people seem to have the impression that god is somehow just and wise.
But all throughout the bible god is quite the opposite.
Case in point. Although humans are deemed less intelligent then god we do not punish
the innocent for the crimes of the guilty.
In fact, we are often sympathetic to the familey members who's lives are affected by
the bad behavior of loved ones.
God on the other hand is cruel.
The proof?, Eve screws up. But god is not content to punish her for her actions, but
instead punishes all her female decendants (several billion) by way of painfull birth and
menstration. The lion and the lamb slept together in the garden but after the sin the lamb
now needs to avoid being ripped apart alive by the lion.The pharoh of egypt was the one that refused to allow the jews thier freedom.Does god shove a stick up his bum ? no, god punishes the people while leaving the pharoh to still rule-never mind all the babies god kills(innocent and guiltless by the way).
I look forward to your opinions on this.
ron

My opinion is that adam and eve is not a literal event that took place. It was a symbol of what happens to angels that come to physical planets and try different things. They are allowed to engage in activities that will not draw their consciousness away from God. Sex was forbidden and that was the fruit at the center of the tree. The tree represented the central nervous system and the fruit was the sex organ in the central nervous system. Adam and Eve represented man and woman. After this happens they lose their Godliness and are forced to recover it. God is not evil for he gives us all our own free will to live as we want.

 

[Katzpur]

Riverwolf, that was a nice civilised reply compared with mine.

I liked yours better. :yes:

 

[parts]

If even one part of the bible is not true as written, then "the word of god"
becomes meaninless.
Modern worshipers always seem to forget that the bible is supposed to be the work of god
through it's authors. People were killed just for questioning it's validity.
If your the type that likes to pick and choose what parts you like or agree with, but make
excusses for the parts you find hard to swallow or difficult to live with then how can you
make the claim "I believe in god and the bible"?
The bible ( and the letters/papers that made it up)is the only "evidence' that god even
exists. Without it there is NO god.
I have 51 yrs in this world and see no proof that god is real. But I do see plenty of evidence
that at the least, if there is a god, it has no common sence,is cruel,unwise, not one i could love.

 

[Riverwolf]

If even one part of the bible is not true as written, then "the word of god"
becomes meaninless.
Modern worshipers always seem to forget that the bible is supposed to be the work of god
through it's authors. People were killed just for questioning it's validity.
If your the type that likes to pick and choose what parts you like or agree with, but make
excusses for the parts you find hard to swallow or difficult to live with then how can you
make the claim "I believe in god and the bible"?
The bible ( and the letters/papers that made it up)is the only "evidence' that god even
exists. Without it there is NO god.
I have 51 yrs in this world and see no proof that god is real. But I do see plenty of evidence
that at the least, if there is a god, it has no common sence,is cruel,unwise, not one i could love.

You do realize that the process of canonization of the Bible was picking and choosing, right? It's not a single book, but a collection of books. Speaking as a Hindu, I very much love the Sermon on the Mount, a few of the Psalms, and some of the other Kethuvim texts.

Besides, the Judeo-Christian Bible isn't the only text which speaks of God. The word "Allah" literally translates to God(Arabic-speaking Christians refer to God as "Allah"), so the Qur'an counts. While it is admittedly debatable, myself and others are convinced that the Vedas and Vedic literature speaks primarily of one God, though referred to by many names (the names of the various Devas and Mahadevas.) Heck, the Sanskrit word "Bhagavan" is very often translated as "God." Zoroastrian texts also speak of Ahura Mazda, who is essentially God.

So, yes, there is no real scientific evidence that God exists (speaking as a theist here), but the Bible is not the only text that speaks of Him/Her.

 

[Storm]

Hope you don't mind my jumping in!

If even one part of the bible is not true as written, then "the word of god" becomes meaninless.
Modern worshipers always seem to forget that the bible is supposed to be the work of god through it's authors. People were killed just for questioning it's validity.

This by you is how it should be? Personally, I prefer more reasonable faith.

If your the type that likes to pick and choose what parts you like or agree with, but make excusses for the parts you find hard to swallow or difficult to live with then how can you make the claim "I believe in god and the bible"?

1) There are other faiths than Christianity.
2) This article is long, but explains my view of ALL scripture for better than I could.

The bible ( and the letters/papers that made it up)is the only "evidence' that god even exists. Without it there is NO god.

Hardly!

I have 51 yrs in this world and see no proof that god is real. But I do see plenty of evidence that at the least, if there is a god, it has no common sence,is cruel,unwise, not one i could love.

I get the feeling you haven't given it all that much thought. You're entitled to your opinion nonetheless, but if you wish to debate, you must first learn.

 

[parts]

Well it's been nice.
But as I stated from the begining I'm happy to debate but now that someone has gotten
personal without knowing me or what I've "learned" I will find another site.

I've had many play the "I'll just insult you because I have nothing real to give" game and I choose
not to play it.

Love to you all.
ron

 

[Storm]

Who insulted you?

 

[Katzpur]

Who insulted you?

Apparently everybody who disagreed with him.