Help Wanted: Fecund Female To Bear Neanderthal

[Terrywoodenpic]

That is a very clever and unusual composition.

It shows rank, relationship, pecking order and class.

 

[Revoltingest]

You show a picture of a TV program describing a time when 500 titled families ruled society in Britain.
There were quite a few black citizens in the UK with at least one accepted into that illustrious fold.
Class was far more important than colour. Upper class families from any country notwithstanding their colour were equally acceptable.
Class is a serious matter Colour is not......Collonials can be accepted for their money but little else.

Enforced segregation by class or by race....all smells rank.

 

[Skwim]

"Harvard professor blasts Neanderthal clone baby rumor on Web

Neanderthal clone story blamed on poor translation. The headline flying across the Internet yesterday seemed too outlandish to be true:

“Wanted: ‘Adventurous woman’ to give birth to Neanderthal man — Harvard professor seeks mother for cloned cave baby,” Britain’s Daily Mail exulted.

And Harvard University geneticist George M. Church, the scientist at the center of the viral vortex, says it was: Way too outlandish, and entirely untrue."
​

To read the whole story go HERE

 

[Revoltingest]

Someone delete Skwim's post.
It's too much of a buzz killer.

 

[Reptillian]

One thing about Neaderthals is I'll bet are kick *** in sports. From what I gather they are believed to be hideously strong like chimps. I think if angered he might hurt other kids pretty bad and even adults. I'll grant though he probably would lead a cloistered and sheltered life. Strangely though he might be better off compared to his ancestors who probably were routinely preyed upon by large predators.

Imc the jury is still out by way of ethics. I guess it depends upon how such a human is treated and cared for.

You never know, the predators may have been what made neaderthals...well, neaderthals. Perhaps the problems we face define us as a species. In the absence of challenges the neaderthal may lose his neaderthalmanity.

I think one way to make the burden less on the kid is if he did have peers. In other words, you can't just make one. I think 10 would be a good number, 5 of each gender.

That way, too, any lab-specimen-ness would be spread out among them, and one person wouldn't bear the brunt of it. It would also enhance the reliability of the data (ie, help eliminate the "is this result normal for this species, or is this individual an outlier?" issue)

This is what I call Frankenstein's dilemma. The monster wants a mate. It seems unjust to create a being so different from man and then to deny it companionship...but this being's descendents may overthrow humanity. Like the Frankenstein monster, this poor creature would be ostracized and mistreated. History has shown that almost all human beings are complete jerks when it comes to slight differences. As recently as a 200 years ago it wasn't uncommon to hear someone say, "Your skin is slightly darker than mine, pick my cotton you inhuman savage." We aren't enlightened enough to handle another hominid walking around.

Where does it end? Do we bring back Homo Erectus? Homo Habilis? Lucy? Hell, let's just create a zoo for extinct hominds and charge big bucks for slacked jawed yokels to gawk at them and throw peanuts.

 

[Falvlun]

That is a very clever and unusual composition.

It shows rank, relationship, pecking order and class.

Poor Daisy. Runt of the litter.

 

[Falvlun]

"Harvard professor blasts Neanderthal clone baby rumor on Web

Neanderthal clone story blamed on poor translation. The headline flying across the Internet yesterday seemed too outlandish to be true:

“Wanted: ‘Adventurous woman’ to give birth to Neanderthal man — Harvard professor seeks mother for cloned cave baby,” Britain’s Daily Mail exulted.

And Harvard University geneticist George M. Church, the scientist at the center of the viral vortex, says it was: Way too outlandish, and entirely untrue."
​

To read the whole story go HERE

I suspected as much. I mean, you'd think they'd try something smaller first, like ancient mouse DNA in modern mouse first.

Someone delete Skwim's post.
It's too much of a buzz killer.

Totally!

 

[Skwim]

Someone delete Skwim's post.
It's too much of a buzz killer.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I thought that after 100+ posts everyone would have gotten in all their shots.

 

[Riverwolf]

Even if this isn't really happening (yet), this still serves as a great thought experiment and ethical discussion.

I say, lets keep talking about it as if the poor translation were the truth.

After all, from the article:

...if it is technically possible someday, we need to start talking about it today.

 

[Falvlun]

This is what I call Frankenstein's dilemma. The monster wants a mate. It seems unjust to create a being so different from man and then to deny it companionship...but this being's descendents may overthrow humanity. Like the Frankenstein monster, this poor creature would be ostracized and mistreated. History has shown that almost all human beings are complete jerks when it comes to slight differences. As recently as a 200 years ago it wasn't uncommon to hear someone say, "Your skin is slightly darker than mine, pick my cotton you inhuman savage." We aren't enlightened enough to handle another hominid walking around.

I don't take such a pessimistic view. I think people are getting better; we are progressing in this matter.

I also think that it is something we are going to have to get over anyway if we want to survive. Not to mention, what's gonna happen when the first sentient alien steps off his spaceship?

While I agree that this would be a shock to the system, and that there would be a lot of nasty response, and even that maybe humans aren't ready for this, I also believe that having such an encounter with a non-homo sapien intelligent creature would also be consciousness raising. It might actually be the thing that would catapult us out of this dark age thinking. It might actually expand our awareness to realize that morality shouldn't just stop with those who just look like us, who share our gene pool.

Such an encounter is not only necessary, but I think it is inevitable.

Where does it end? Do we bring back Homo Erectus? Homo Habilis? Lucy? Hell, let's just create a zoo for extinct hominds and charge big bucks for slacked jawed yokels to gawk at them and throw peanuts.

Good question. I cringe at such a picture.

Maybe we could start out with the dodo first.

 

[Koldo]

It would be unavoidable, since their very creation would be an experiment.

Well, yes. I wasn't including their creation when i said that.

So the question becomes what degree of experimentation is appropriate, looking at it from the voluntary & involuntary aspects.

If they are given ( or rather, were to be given ) human rights, then involuntary experiments would only take place in cases where they are allowed to happen to other humans as well.

 

[Koldo]

Because there is also a growing majority of people who are not racists.

Which doesn't prevent racism from existing though...

I expect that there would be racism. But should the existence of bigots drown out the rest of us who'd accept this new cousin as something of equal worth to ourselves?

I think that is not a good perspective. The question should not be how we would feel about it, but rather how they would feel about it.

No, that's precisely my point. We'd need to change our approach. It wouldn't be "human rights". It would be something broader. It would be "rights of all sapient beings" or something like that.

I would think this awareness of another sentient species would be consciousness raising... if handled correctly. In an ideal scenario, it would lead to a trickle down effect, where not only intelligent creatures are afforded rights, but all creatures are, and lead to greater respect for plant and animal life all around.

Still, it is only natural that humans would be granted special rights. Let us imagine an hypothetical alien race for example. Let's imagine this race can reproduce at an astonishing rate. If left unchecked, it would destroy important resources over the globe in 5 years. Could this race be granted reproductive rights like a human?

 

[Falvlun]

Which doesn't prevent racism from existing though...

So, what is your argument? Do you think that the mere existence of racism means that it is unethical to bring someone into a world in which people might be prejudiced against them?

I think that is not a good perspective. The question should not be how we would feel about it, but rather how they would feel about it.

Well, how we would react seems to be the primary issue people seem to be having with this.

And it's kinda hard to know how they would feel about it. They might have similar emotional responses to similar stimuli as we do, or they might not. And even individuals react differently. Maybe they'd thrive on all the attention.

Of course, no one likes to be treated like a second class citizen, but they aren't going to feel like one unless we make them feel that way... which is why asking how we, humans, would react is just as valid a line of questioning as hypothesizing how they would feel about it.

Still, it is only natural that humans would be granted special rights.

Only if your morality dictates such. I would hope we'd rise above such petty specieisms.

Let us imagine an hypothetical alien race for example. Let's imagine this race can reproduce at an astonishing rate. If left unchecked, it would destroy important resources over the globe in 5 years. Could this race be granted reproductive rights like a human?

I would assume we'd deal with issues such as these as they became reality. Even humans aren't allowed to do whatever they want.

Though, that is a strange example you picked, because I actually think it wouldn't be a bad thing if our reproduction were in some way restricted since we are basically doing exactly what you find so reprehensible in the hypothetical alien race.

 

[Koldo]

So, what is your argument? Do you think that the mere existence of racism means that it is unethical to bring someone into a world in which people might be prejudiced against them?

The point is that if you grant human rights to this species and creates many of them allowing them to breed, the consequence is a conflict that is not in the best interest of this species.

Well, how we would react seems to be the primary issue people seem to be having with this.

And it's kinda hard to know how they would feel about it. They might have similar emotional responses to similar stimuli as we do, or they might not. And even individuals react differently. Maybe they'd thrive on all the attention.

Of course, no one likes to be treated like a second class citizen, but they aren't going to feel like one unless we make them feel that way... which is why asking how we, humans, would react is just as valid a line of questioning as hypothesizing how they would feel about it.

How we would react is an important point only because this would directly reflect on how they would be treated, and therefore, how they would feel about it.

Focusing just on how we would feel about it, as in how our curiosity would be satisfied by making this experiment, is unethical though. That's disregarding the other in our own benefit.

Only if your morality dictates such. I would hope we'd rise above such petty specieisms.

It doesn't really depend on morality. At least, not always.

I would assume we'd deal with issues such as these as they became reality. Even humans aren't allowed to do whatever they want.

Though, that is a strange example you picked, because I actually think it wouldn't be a bad thing if our reproduction were in some way restricted since we are basically doing exactly what you find so reprehensible in the hypothetical alien race.

Except humans aren't so quick at doing it as the hypothetical alien race. Indeed this is a right that will eventually either cease to exist or be changed in some particular and relevant form.

 

[painted wolf]

The fact that people fell for this makes me deeply disappointed.

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

The fact that people fell for this makes me deeply disappointed.
wa:do

This one was fun to fall for.
(I wonder if anyone ever thought it could actually happen?)

 

[painted wolf]

This one was fun to fall for.
(I wonder if anyone ever thought it could actually happen?)

Given the fuss it caused, I'm sure that lots of people thought it could happen. Some people think Jurassic Park is possible.

Which is why I was disappointed rather than surprised.

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

Given the fuss it caused, I'm sure that lots of people thought it could happen. Some people think Jurassic Park is possible.
Which is why I was disappointed rather than surprised.
wa:do

I think tensions were heightened because some took great offense at the mere possibility this was considered.
But to be disappointed in your fellow man (or gal...or other) is a good safe default position.
We so often disappoint.

 

[painted wolf]

I think tensions were heightened because some took great offense at the mere possibility this was considered.
But to be disappointed in your fellow man (or gal...or other) is a good safe default position.
We so often disappoint.

Some people are very easily offended.

wa:do

 

[Riverwolf]

Given the fuss it caused, I'm sure that lots of people thought it could happen. Some people think Jurassic Park is possible.

Which is why I was disappointed rather than surprised.

wa:do

Well, in fairness, cloning a neanderthal sounds more plausible to most people than cloning a dinosaur.