Hillary losing ground...

[nutshell]

I'm not afraid of being called names. Examples please.

I wasn't calling you names.

 

[Mathematician]

Obama has spoke on his faith in depth.
What he had to say sounded pretty good to me for the most part.

Obama on religion in political/public discourse.

"Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."
.....
"This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all. "

A politician actually addressing atheists? :sarcastic I remember Kerry briefly mentioning atheists in one of his debates with Bush, but he never presented the arguement like this.

Interesting.

 

[des]

I don't think Hillary is behind it. It just seems to xenophobic to me that it could have only come from the far right wing (FAUX news, I love it). I have heard someone turn Obama's name into Osama Bin Ladin. This person thought this was highly amusing. Real funny, not.

Obama has given several interviews to groups like the Sojourners (Jim Wallis' Christian social justice group) and also the UCC online. In fact, as a UCC member, I think he sounds pretty darned UCC to me.

I'm sure "real Christians" wouldn't like someone from the UCC that much more than Muslims (I mean they would be just as unsaved). And I'm sure his positions on just about any issue are opposed to theirs. (UCC is very pro-gay rights for instance.) I think Barack Obama represents a major threat to the right wing in that here is a young articulate guy (boy wouldn't articulate be nice about now? ) who gives an uncynical, optimistic picture. (Right now they are mounting major offensives against mainline Protestant denominations. Google IRD+ mainline Protestant.) So here is a very attractive "religious left" voice. They see an increase in the "religious left" and fear it. I'd say very threatening to them.

If this were a crime scene, you have a group with an obvious agenda and see an obvious threat. They also have much less to lose than Hillary does.
I also never saw the Clinton's involved in Karl Rove style politics, to my knowledge.


--des

 

[jeffrey]

Face it. The best part of Hillary ran down her mother's leg. She thinks she's something she isn't. She could care less about you or me. (I know, I know, name a politician that does!) I have no respect for her because she put up with Bill. In fact, she has learned his worst traits, and as snubbed what make him Pres. Uncle Bill, even though I might not agree with him, was down to earth. Hillary is... well... hasn't got a clue to the real world.

 

[s2a]

I'm sure Hillary is behind the smear campaigns.

I'm sure Hillary is an alien from the planet Ersatz[sp?].

Illegal aliens should be deported to the nearest similar planetoid/planet that might sustain their (her) lifeform.

If there's no evidence, no personal denials, and no demonstrable associations...then that's all the prrof you need of a cover-up and a conspiracy!

Hillary smeared Obama!

I double-dog dare you to disprove my claim!

Conspiracy!

Where's the plane?

 

[jeffrey]

I'm sure Hillary is an alien from the planet Ersatz[sp?].

Illegal aliens should be deported to the nearest similar planetoid/planet that might sustain their (her) lifeform.
If there's no evidence, no personal denials, and no demonstrable associations...then that's all the prrof you need of a cover-up and a conspiracy!

Hillary smeared Obama!

I double-dog dare you to disprove my claim!

Conspiracy!

Where's the plane?

Come on! Look at her! Can you not see the tinge of green????

I'm sorry. I will never vote for any woman that pees icecubes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm lost. If Obama isn't Muslim, then why was thier a big fuss about him being sworn in with a Quran? Or is that a different Senator? Fox news is unfortunatly on the TVs in the break room at work, so I often get news that is biased, wrong, twisted, unfair and unbalanced.

 

[des]

I think they are confusing stories. There is a black congressman who is Muslim that was sworn in the Quran. Obama goes to a United Church of Christ church. He was not sworn in on a Quran as it would make no sense. They might be able to tell one black guy from another. Sheesh!
(Though perhaps someone here was just confused. You know, tell a lie enough and someone might believe it.)

BTW, there is some good reporting CNN did re: the story. They sent one of their reporters to the school Obama went to as a very young child. It looks like a pretty typical more or less well-off school in a third world country.
I must have seen pictures of tons of schools that looked just like this. Boys and girls are playing and are learning together (not segregated). They wear neat little school uniforms and the teachers are in western dress. They learn some Indonesian folk dances. It is also a public school. Very radical.

I love the arguments. They set up a totally false story, and then they say it is his *responsibility* for answering these "tough questions".
One argument is that he must be lying or covering up for his past as he did not talk about being in a madrassa (probably cause madrassa means "school"). Sheesh!!

CNN also said that the magazine that initially ran the story did not give any info about the supposed Hillary connection. Another *responsibility*. Ok, Hillary prove you didn't say these things. Sheesh again!

Snopes had a nice little rebut to it, btw. Too bad but for some reason I can't post links.


--des

I'm lost. If Obama isn't Muslim, then why was thier a big fuss about him being sworn in with a Quran? Or is that a different Senator? Fox news is unfortunatly on the TVs in the break room at work, so I often get news that is biased, wrong, twisted, unfair and unbalanced.

 

[PureX]

Come on! Look at her! Can you not see the tinge of green????

I'm sorry. I will never vote for any woman that pees icecubes.

It would be interesting to know just exactly what it is that makes you hate Hillary Clinton, who you don't really even know. I mean, what exactly has she done to you to draw such spite?

 

[PureX]

I think they are confusing stories. There is a black congressman who is Muslim that was sworn in the Quran. Obama goes to a United Church of Christ church. He was not sworn in on a Quran as it would make no sense. They might be able to tell one black guy from another. Sheesh!
(Though perhaps someone here was just confused. You know, tell a lie enough and someone might believe it.)

BTW, there is some good reporting CNN did re: the story. They sent one of their reporters to the school Obama went to as a very young child. It looks like a pretty typical more or less well-off school in a third world country.
I must have seen pictures of tons of schools that looked just like this. Boys and girls are playing and are learning together (not segregated). They wear neat little school uniforms and the teachers are in western dress. They learn some Indonesian folk dances. It is also a public school. Very radical.

I love the arguments. They set up a totally false story, and then they say it is his *responsibility* for answering these "tough questions".
One argument is that he must be lying or covering up for his past as he did not talk about being in a madrassa (probably cause madrassa means "school"). Sheesh!!

CNN also said that the magazine that initially ran the story did not give any info about the supposed Hillary connection. Another *responsibility*. Ok, Hillary prove you didn't say these things. Sheesh again!

Snopes had a nice little rebut to it, btw. Too bad but for some reason I can't post links.


--des

I honestly don't believe that the right wing slander machine (the Carl Rove method of campaigning) is going to work this time. And there are several reasons. One is that I think most Americans have figured out what's really going on, and will not automatically buy into their lies, anymore - even those who would LIKE to believe them aren't going to let themselves be so easily duped. And the second reason is that I think the press has finally begun to get over their aversion to exposing these slanders for what they really are. I don't fully understand why they were so reluctant to do so in the past, but I sense that their going to jump on these slanders this time, and track them down and hopefully expose them for what they are, and also expose who is behind them. We desperately need the press in this country to do their jobs, and to do their best to get to the bottom of these smear campaigns. And I think they've realized that they are somewhat responsible for the horrible national disaster that the Bush administration has become, and they're finally willing to do their part in not letting it happen again.

 

[jeffrey]

It would be interesting to know just exactly what it is that makes you hate Hillary Clinton, who you don't really even know. I mean, what exactly has she done to you to draw such spite?

Well ,let me see... I lived in Arkansas from 1988 until 2002. I drove a truck that was owned by Bill Clinton that was leased on to Harold Ives Trucking. (I worked for Harold Ives). My attorney and friend, (And also a judge in Little Rock), Jim Hamilton, was close friends to both. My doctor was Vic Snyder. Who became the the congressman for Arkansas' 2nd district. (I would vote for him for Pres in a New York Minute!)
Have I met her? No. But been around enough people that have to make a pretty good "call" on who she really is, compared to someone who gets their knowledge from whats the press wants you to hear.

 

[PureX]

Well ,let me see... I lived in Arkansas from 1988 until 2002. I drove a truck that was owned by Bill Clinton that was leased on to Harold Ives Trucking. (I worked for Harold Ives). My attorney and friend, (And also a judge in Little Rock), Jim Hamilton, was close friends to both. My doctor was Vic Snyder. Who became the the congressman for Arkansas' 2nd district. (I would vote for him for Pres in a New York Minute!)
Have I met her? No. But been around enough people that have to make a pretty good "call" on who she really is, compared to someone who gets their knowledge from whats the press wants you to hear.

There is a reason why they don't let here-say pass as evidence in a court of law. Do you know what that reason is?

 

[Radio Frequency X]

As I said, the easiest way to smear Hillary is to accuse her of smearing others.

Man, I swear that stuff like this just makes me want her to win.

lol If you think that Hillary Clinton is beyond smear campaigns, then you are being naive. You KNOW that this is how politics works. Its not that Hillary is worse than anyone else, she is not. But she wants to be president. The Republicans aren't going to smear anyone until they have a Democratic Nominee and then they will let all the nastiness roll.

 

[PureX]

lol If you think that Hillary Clinton is beyond smear campaigns, then you are being naive. You KNOW that this is how politics works. Its not that Hillary is worse than anyone else, she is not. But she wants to be president. The Republicans aren't going to smear anyone until they have a Democratic Nominee and then they will let all the nastiness roll.

It isn't the "republicans" doing it. It's conservative zealots. There are private groups out there who because of their own vested interests, want to see "their" party gain power. And it's these groups who do most of the slandering. In recent years, the most vicious and outrageously deceitful of these have been in Carl Rove's pocket. And they have reared their ugly heads in every single election that George Bush participated in, with Carl Rove as his manager. They routinely use racism, sexism, and any form of prejudice they can exploit to stir up hatred in people and aim it at their opponents. They did it in Texas against Ann Richards. They did it against McCain in 2000. They did it against Kerry in 2004. Rove of course denied having any direct control of these hate-mongers but they show up in every campaign he's involved in, and always on his side, and everyone in and out of politics believes that he is responsible for them, and for their practices. And it's these people who are spreading the lie that Obama is Muslim, as well as the lie that Hillary is the one trying to smear him. And these people are not going to go away, because Carl Rove is still the "Genius" of the neo-con campaign machine, and the neo-cons are still in power. And even when they are finally thrown out of the White House, their sort of vicious slander tactics will still be with us, because there are billions of dollars riding on who gets power in this country. And billions of dollars will make vicious slanderers out of a lot of people.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Sounds like these are Far-Right-driven potshots against an opponent, not honest campaigns in favor of a particular platform.

Besides, who exactly represent the forerunners of the Republican Party?

 

[lilithu]

lol If you think that Hillary Clinton is beyond smear campaigns, then you are being naive.

I don't think that Hillary is beyond smear campaigns. I do think however, that when you accuse someone of being behind a smear campaign that there needs to be proof.


"I'm sure that Hillary's behind the smear campaigns." does not constitute proof. The only thing that shows is that you personally don't like her.

 

[Willamena]

I don't think that Hillary is beyond smear campaigns. I do think however, that when you accuse someone of being behind a smear campaign that there needs to be proof...

...or even evidence.

 

[lilithu]

I'm lost. If Obama isn't Muslim, then why was thier a big fuss about him being sworn in with a Quran? Or is that a different Senator? Fox news is unfortunatly on the TVs in the break room at work, so I often get news that is biased, wrong, twisted, unfair and unbalanced.

Please! Obama wasn't even sworn in this time around. He was elected senator in the 2004 elections. sheesh.

The guy who was recently sworn in on a Qur'an (Thomas Jefferson's Qur'an, I might add) was Keith Ellison, who was just elected to the House of Representatives in 2006, not the Senate. He's from MN, not IL.

 

[lilithu]

...or even evidence.

You're right. Thank you.

 

[jeffrey]

Ummm, posts of the truth are getting deleted. (Newspaper articles) Out of here again... Later.