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Hillary losing ground...

Radio Frequency X

World Leader Pretend
lilithu said:
I don't think that Hillary is beyond smear campaigns. I do think however, that when you accuse someone of being behind a smear campaign that there needs to be proof.


"I'm sure that Hillary's behind the smear campaigns." does not constitute proof. The only thing that shows is that you personally don't like her.


lol ok. Show proof it was the Republicans. You liberals love to blame everything on conservatives and you never ask for proof. You never defend the claims you make. But, if someone dares to insult a liberal, its all out war. Liberals only care about logic and argument if it suits their agenda. Otherwise, logic is bigotry. Facts are "hate-speech". It's disgusting.
 

Ody

Well-Known Member
Radio Frequency X said:
lol ok. Show proof it was the Republicans. You liberals love to blame everything on conservatives and you never ask for proof. You never defend the claims you make. But, if someone dares to insult a liberal, its all out war. Liberals only care about logic and argument if it suits their agenda. Otherwise, logic is bigotry. Facts are "hate-speech". It's disgusting.

Generalize much?
 

CaptainXeroid

Following Christ
Hilary was christened the Democratic 'front runner' based on name recognition. That she would lose ground over the course of a roughly 2 year Presidential campaign was to be expected. The US media has funny way of buildling someone up only to tear that person back down.

The thing is that barring something weird, the Democrats will carry Illinois and New York regardless of their candidate. What they really need is a candidate from the South or Southwest.

Given that Hilary is from New York and that she would give the GOP way too much fodder, I doubt that she is the best choice for the Democrats.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Radio Frequency X said:
lol ok. Show proof it was the Republicans. You liberals love to blame everything on conservatives and you never ask for proof. You never defend the claims you make. But, if someone dares to insult a liberal, its all out war. Liberals only care about logic and argument if it suits their agenda. Otherwise, logic is bigotry. Facts are "hate-speech". It's disgusting.
WHEN did I say that it was the Republicans??!

sheesh!!

As far as I can tell, this smear can be attributed entirely to the cesspool reporting that is called FOX news.
 

Radio Frequency X

World Leader Pretend
lilithu said:
WHEN did I say that it was the Republicans??!

sheesh!!

As far as I can tell, this smear can be attributed entirely to the cesspool reporting that is called FOX news.

blah - and Fox News is nothing if not Republican. C'mon. You honsetly think that your beloved, perfect Hillary is beyond this? Seriously?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Radio Frequency X said:
blah - and Fox News is nothing if not Republican. C'mon. You honsetly think that your beloved, perfect Hillary is beyond this? Seriously?
Your ad hominems are beinging to wear on me.



I think that I require evidence for such claims. Period.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
Your ad hominems are beinging to wear on me.



I think that I require evidence for such claims. Period.

Typical request for evidence when you have offered none.
 

Radio Frequency X

World Leader Pretend
lilithu said:
Your ad hominems are beinging to wear on me.

I think that I require evidence for such claims. Period.

Outside of the obvious? Republicans have nothing to gain by going after Obama if Hillary can beat him.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Radio Frequency X said:
Outside of the obvious? Republicans have nothing to gain by going after Obama if Hillary can beat him.
AGAIN, I have made no such claim that Republicans are trying to smear Obama.

Yes, Fox News is conservative, but they're also known for shoddy reporting. You seem to be operating under the assumption that someone must be orchestrating this "smear campaign," and therefore you're gonna blame it on Hillary. I'm perfectly willing to believe that it's just FOX news and their tabloid journalism.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
AGAIN, I have made no such claim that Republicans are trying to smear Obama.

Yes, Fox News is conservative, but they're also known for shoddy reporting. You seem to be operating under the assumption that someone must be orchestrating this "smear campaign," and therefore you're gonna blame it on Hillary. I'm perfectly willing to believe that it's just FOX news and their tabloid journalism.

Ane what major network doesn't practice shoddy reporting / tabloid journalism? Or are you going to protect your liberal spin machines?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
nutshell said:
Ane what major network doesn't practice shoddy reporting / tabloid journalism? Or are you going to protect your liberal spin machines?
Your accusation is absolutely irrelevant to the argument at hand. There is no reason to posit a smear campaign when the misinformation can easily be attributed to FOX news. They are the one who reported this misinformation. That much is documented. Everything else is blind speculation. As someone else said, you might as well blame it on aliens.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
Your accusation is absolutely irrelevant to the argument at hand. There is no reason to posit a smear campaign when the misinformation can easily be attributed to FOX news. They are the one who reported this misinformation. That much is documented. Everything else is blind speculation. As someone else said, you might as well blame it on aliens.

It's not irrelevant. Fox has done nothing different than any other news network. Are you in denial about that?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
nutshell said:
It's not irrelevant. Fox has done nothing different than any other news network. Are you in denial about that?
Yes, it is irrelevant. Because the argument is about whether or not Hillary Clinton is behind a smear campaign against Barack Obama. FOX reported misinformation about Obama. Not the other networks. Trying to change the subject to whatever else they may or may not have done is irrelevant.
 

des

Active Member
This is, and I don't know the kind of logic fallacy this is technically named, but here is the jist of it: You make a statement that you don't prove in any way. It may or may not be logical, or you may or may not think that it sounds like it could be true. But it is generally a charged issue.
For instance, that Hillary would start a smear campaign against her rival.
Then you state "PROVE that she didn't". It would be impossible. The burden of proof, I believe, properly rests on the person making the claim in the first place.

I also read this in regard to Barrack Obama. At age six he was sent to a Muslim school. So the argument goes like this: He went to a maddrassa (actually a this means school in Arabic). The argument goes that it is highly suspious that he never tells us he went to a madrassa. He is obviously hiding the fact that he is really a extremist Muslim. It is therefore his responsibility to the American people to prove that he is not. And of course, Hillary is clearly responsible for this leak of info. It is clear only that nobody can really prove they aren't/or didn't.

Obama went to a madrassa at age 6-8, this means he went to school.
He doesn't mention it because who thinks of mentioning it because who mentions their elementary education. It is by all accounts a typical school.
He was not brought up as Muslim. But he can in no way prove he is not a radical Muslim. Nor can Hillary really prove that she created this supposed "leak". The whole story is bogus, but you can't disprove the final suppositions. Obama attends the UCC church but he couldn't absolutely prove that he is not deep down inside a radical Muslim, anymore than you can prove to me that you aren't. Hillary could not prove that she didn't generate the story.

IF you make the initial assertion then you would have to be the one to show in some detail why you came to this, esp. since this was supposedly journalism. Therefore, Fox news would need to show us why Obama was a radical Moslem. And give the sources of this supposed info by the Hillary camp so that this claim could be discussed further. Perhaps other people would then interview these sources.

A kind of a sad outcome of all this is that the message is translated that Moslem is a bad and evil thing somehow. Another result could be further cynicism in an already cynical public, re: public service.
Nobody can indo this damage either.


--des


nutshell said:
Typical request for evidence when you have offered none.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
nutshell said:
Now are you in denial?
Nutshell, either direct me to such a claim or do not respond. Your current string of posts are nothing more than ad hominem attacks.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
Yes, it is irrelevant. Because the argument is about whether or not Hillary Clinton is behind a smear campaign against Barack Obama. FOX reported misinformation about Obama. Not the other networks. Trying to change the subject to whatever else they may or may not have done is irrelevant.

No, it is not irrelevant. The current RF smear campaign against fox must be met head on. Fox is doing the same thing the other networks are doing - so why jump all over fox? Selective targeting perhaps?
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
Nutshell, either direct me to such a claim or do not respond. Your current string of posts are nothing more than ad hominem attacks.

So you're in denial about being in denial?
 
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