Hindu Persecution Complex

[Fireside_Hindu]

To me,it's simple, because ultimately no matter what scriptures you adhere to, a few things have to be true for the basic premise of Hinduism to be true.

Whether you are advaita or dvaita, we are either a part of god intrinsically, we *are* god, or we are separate but created by God. Therefore, there is nothing outside of God. To imply that certain people don't belong to some arbitrary "club" in Hinduism means you claim that it is possible to be outside of God's grace, which would make the concept of Brahman false, since something exists without Brahman's hand in it.

Caste, Varna, Race...etc, these are (and always have been) man made constructions and ways of organizing the world. They may have been useful at one point in the past, but the world moves on and people/society changes.

Let angry, young "true" Hindus call me false. The only sad thing is by doing so they contradict their own belief system.

:camp:

 

[Stormcry]

Hinduismlovekrishna,

By reading your posts i am feeling myselves bad for having born into an indian hindu family, your ideas are that so stupid. Where are the mentions of non-indians in puranas or vedas? prove the credibility of your stance. Also puranas are not the history book of hinduism, when did devas or asuras existed in earth?

non-indians means those who live in india but their ancestors belong to outside countries.

In scriptures ,there is no any mention of mleccha living in bharata . Mlecchas came from outside countries under the effect of kali purasha.

In mahabharata like scriptures, we get some references about mleccha , like Karna defeated many mleccha kings living outside of bharata.

According to purana ,There are many mleccha types like haras, hunas, barvaras, gurundas, sakas, khasas, yavanas, pallavas, romajas and those who are situated in different dvipas and in kamaru, china and the middle of the ocean.

" Then the king went to Kurukshetra with three million soldiers. There was a large, terrible fight between them. At night in the month of Jesta (July), Bali Maharaja came from Patala, the lowest region with ten-thousand demons and killed the soldiers of the king very quickly, eating them again and again. The king, being afraid took shelter of goddess Sarasvati. After that immediately Krishnamsas arrived and killed the ten-thousand demons. They came to Bali, the lord of the demons, and pleased him with their words.



Then Baliraja said: I’m very pleased with you, now you can ask for any benediction.



They said: These demons should never come to Aryadesha (India) with you, all of you should stay always in mleccha-desha and eat the followers of mleccha-dharma.



Baliraja became upset hearing these fearful, terrible words.



Then Krishnamsa said: as long as I’m in this world you should simply stay in your home, after that you come here and do whatever you like”.


Hearing this the mleccha king Sahoda went back "

 

[Aupmanyav]

You can practice hindu dharma. But you cannot become a hindu varna holder.

That can be remedied very easily. I can adopt people as my sons and daughters, or if someone is elder to me, my mother can. Then they would be Upamanyu Gotra Saraswat Kashmiri brahmin in caste.

 

[Stormcry]

In short ,

Hindus are descedants of Saptarishis ie of manus .

While mlecchas ( non-hindus ie varnaless ) are descedants of kali purusha ( agent of kaliyuga ) . Kali purusha gives birth to many mlecchas in order to promote the funtion of kaliyuga.

Besides ,kali purusha ( evil) had a blessing from narayana :

" At that time the Kali purusha prayed to Lord Narayana along with his wife. After sometime the Lord apperared to him and said, "This age will be a good time for you. I will fulfil your desire having various kinds of forms. There is a couple named Adama and Havyavati. They will increase the generations of mlecchas . Saying this, the Lord disappeared. Having great joy the Kali purusha went to Nilacha "

 

[Aupmanyav]

2 ) An castless not belonging to four varnas, a very low man,

But what is the fault of a person from outside India where there are no castes (classes sure are there), Now how come you can call a rightful person living from outside India as a very low man or woman? Even Hindu Gods and Goddesses will honor a rightful person without caring for his nationality or religion. You simply do not understand Hinduism. Learn some more and come back. Svetaketu, your education is not complete.

 

[Maya3]

To me,it's simple, because ultimately no matter what scriptures you adhere to, a few things have to be true for the basic premise of Hinduism to be true.

Whether you are advaita or dvaita, we are either a part of god intrinsically, we *are* god, or we are separate but created by God. Therefore, there is nothing outside of God. To imply that certain people don't belong to some arbitrary "club" in Hinduism means you claim that it is possible to be outside of God's grace, which would make the concept of Brahman false, since something exists without Brahman's hand in it.

Caste, Varna, Race...etc, these are (and always have been) man made constructions and ways of organizing the world. They may have been useful at one point in the past, but the world moves on and people/society changes.

Let angry, young "true" Hindus call me false. The only sad thing is by doing so they contradict their own belief system.

:camp:

Well said!





As for the rest of the comments;
This is my last post in this conversation.
It's becoming completely ridiculous. It is 2014 now, get over yourself!

Maya

 

[nameless]

In mahabharata like scriptures, we get some references about mleccha , like Karna defeated many mleccha kings living outside of bharata.

According to purana ,There are many mleccha types like haras, hunas, barvaras, gurundas, sakas, khasas, yavanas, pallavas, romajas and those who are situated in different dvipas and in kamaru, china and the middle of the ocean.

Just one question, all these outsider mlecchas were the followers hindu dharma? also what you quoted is from bhavishya purana, which holds no credibility at all.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Ill give my opinions, but take them as coming from a Indian observing India from outside.



I don't know exactly what percentage of what is happening in India is true and what is false or what part could be blown out of proportion or what is not actually is shown in popular media, I get my info from websites mostly though. But even if it is paranoia, where does this paranoia come from? I think maybe historically being under threat for almost 1000 years has left a bad taste.



I don't think it is a reaction to different philosophy, Hinduism it self is a multi-philosophy system, so that i can be sure is not the case. We could say that the Abrahamic religions are more prone to having a reaction to different philosophy as they are mostly exclusive in their world view.



funny, with Americans/Australians it would be considered as patriotism/true blue, but if Im Indian Hindu its nationalism. I think Hindu Indian patriotism is strong but Hindu nationalism is not. I would agree that education is the key to a stronger Hindu nation in India, and would also make the world a better place



As someone said "Hindutva", is not militant, or at least it was not coined in that sense, but i would agree that in some cases Hindus do play the "victim", to get sympathy, but i doubt that is the majority case, I think Indian Hindus need a identity and a Hindu identity is what is typically a Indian Idea and is Indian Philosophy which is a gift to the world, the same way the European Ideal is the basis of the Australian identity.

Personally i think Hinduism in India needs a reform, and needs to be considered as a legitimate and a alternative world view outside of India.

This is a very nice response (I will get to others in due course).

I also don't live in India, so it's very difficult for me to understand the entire situation and can only observe matters from the outside as well...which also distorts things....how does the Western world perceive India and what is actually going on there.

I agree with you though. After years of persecution in the past, and after what Britain did in recent history, I can see why India/Hindus would be getting just a tad nervous.

I also couldn't agree more with this part:

I think Indian Hindus need a identity and a Hindu identity is what is typically a Indian Idea and is Indian Philosophy which is a gift to the world, the same way the European Ideal is the basis of the Australian identity.

Om Namah Shivay

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

We're just trying to learn from history.... When an aggressive culture meets with a passive culture, the aggressive one wins. That's just historical fact. Being too nice is unfortunately, a huge disadvantage in maintaining a culture.

I also think this, but is war the answer?

Should we use the same tactics others have used to subjugate us, to liberate us?

I am also keeping a very close eye on the Muslim vs Buddhist situation in Burma.

That country was a very peaceful and beautiful country for many years. The Buddhists lived in harmony with their society and with nature.

All they wanted to do, was to establish Dharma, live according to the Buddhist way of non-violence and compassion.

Then, the Muslims came.

Last night, I see the Muslims all whining on my TV set...'please save us from those militant Buddhists...we are all being discriminated against and persecuted....'

What a load of bulls***. Honestly!

They were the ones that started it by setting a Buddhist school on fire and continue to be the instigators of violent acts.

The Buddhists are the ones being 'discriminated against' when one of their head priests is sent to jail and flogged for just speaking out against those atrocities...

Yet, the Muslims are acting as if they are the ones hard done by it all just to gain UN support and sympathy? Pathetic!

Even blind Freddy can see what's going on there.

Om Namah Shivay.

 

[Vinayaka]

at HlK Thank you for posing your thoughts. It shows our vastness, and lets all people with a romantic idea of Hinduism know that we're a large lot. It also allows for people to read the sensible responses to your posts.and understand that most of us are quite tolerant.

What happens when a very orthodox leader or swami from inside India initiates a westerner? Are you saying you're smarter than a all the orthodox swamis or Brahmins who have done that?

 

[Vinayaka]

I also think this, but is war the answer?

War can't possibly be the answer. It's what we need to avoid at all costs. I don't really know solutions, but I do think the UN or larger neighbouring countries should make it very clear that this sort of intolerant bullying is totally unacceptable. Otherwise we just get more Rwandas, and other genocides.

And if a certain group can be identified as the main perpetrators, then do the unthinkable like banning that particular group's immigration, imposing sanctions, calling off trade deals, all other tactics besides war. But it is frustrating, when these things don't seem to work. This frustration, when it builds, becomes civil unrest and hatred.

In India a total ban on conversion would be a great start.

 

[Kalidas]

War can't possibly be the answer. It's what we need to avoid at all costs. I don't really know solutions, but I do think the UN or larger neighbouring countries should make it very clear that this sort of intolerant bullying is totally unacceptable. Otherwise we just get more Rwandas, and other genocides.

And if a certain group can be identified as the main perpetrators, then do the unthinkable like banning that particular group's immigration, imposing sanctions, calling off trade deals, all other tactics besides war. But it is frustrating, when these things don't seem to work. This frustration, when it builds, becomes civil unrest and hatred.

In India a total ban on conversion would be a great start.

I'm sorry but I'm not pro banning conversion. That takes rights away from people who may honestly wish to switch religions because it is truly what they believe. Now a ban on prostlyzing...I agree with.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm sorry but I'm not pro banning conversion. That takes rights away from people who may honestly wish to switch religions because it is truly what they believe. Now a ban on prostlyzing...I agree with.

Indeed, and I agree. There should be room for 'ethical conversion'. I just meant the other kind. So maybe some sort of paper work by neutral observers, where you have to convince them this is really something you want to do, and for your own valid reasons, not for food, not for lust, not because of kidnapping, etc.

It's not just proseletysing that causes a problem.

 

[Kalidas]

So I was asked to join this LGBT Hindu group on facebook and this popped up.

Hindu Vatican ? | Hindu Human Rights Online News Magazine

I personally was against it. BUT it did bring up an idea. Maybe not a "vatican" but maybe a Hindu organisation tasked with protecting and helping Hindus around the world. I don't ever want to see a "Hindu pope" telling me what is or isnt Hindu.

 

[Kalidas]

Indeed, and I agree. There should be room for 'ethical conversion'. I just meant the other kind. So maybe some sort of paper work by neutral observers, where you have to convince them this is really something you want to do, and for your own valid reasons, not for food, not for lust, not because of kidnapping, etc.

It's not just proseletysing that causes a problem.

There you go! Great idea!

 

[Vinayaka]

So I was asked to join this LGBT Hindu group on facebook and this popped up.

Hindu Vatican ? | Hindu Human Rights Online News Magazine

I personally was against it. BUT it did bring up an idea. Maybe not a "vatican" but maybe a Hindu organisation tasked with protecting and helping Hindus around the world. I don't ever want to see a "Hindu pope" telling me what is or isnt Hindu.

It would never work. We're just too diverse.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

What Hinduism(lov)Krishna writes is racial and extremely objectionable, but chauvinist hindus are like that. They live in their own dream-world. I beg your pardon for the fulminations of an ill-informed Hindu fellowman. He does not understand what he is saying. I share your hurt and pain.

One of the objectives (I guess the main one) for me creating this thread, was to create a discussion, whereby HlK's thoughts about the matter could be openly addressed in an open, impartial way, rather than all the bickering about this that constantly goes on in many other threads...you know, let's bring it out into the open, but do so maturely and with respect (or at least try)....so, in the spirit of that...please continue, you have given us a lot of wonderful information on this as well.

 

[Kalidas]

It would never work. We're just too diverse.

100% Agree that's why the "Vatican" idea could NEVER work. But as I said an organisation. that helps ALL types of Hindus around the world.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

100% Agree that's why the "Vatican" idea could NEVER work. But as I said an organisation. that helps ALL types of Hindus around the world.

It would still be tricky I think. You need leadership. Every Temple has a committee and when you're dealing with a small community, that works. But does that type of organization work on a global scale. The potential for corruption is so high, the committee would have to be enormous in order to even have a hope of having checks and balances.

:camp:

 

[Kalidas]

It would still be tricky I think. You need leadership. Every Temple has a committee and when you're dealing with a small community, that works. But does that type of organization work on a global scale. The potential for corruption is so high, the committee would have to be enormous in order to even have a hope of having checks and balances.

:camp:

Hhmmm true true. Stupid corruption.