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Hinduism and LGBT
- Thread starter Kapalika
- Start date
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as karma and future lives that acquire the consequences of past lives.
You're free to have your belief. That's tolerance in action for you.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
The only thing that matters is how to live dharmically and through surrender to God to attain moksha and liberation in this life, not rely on a possible future life.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
If there are any negative karmas involved, they can be handled by austerities or penance. Patiently and equanimously handling the discrimination meted out by society without getting mentally agitated, is an austerity in itself which can wipe out karma at jet speed. So is fighting equanimously against injustice of any sort meted out to the transgender or homosexual community based on prejudices, and removing them.
It is perhaps possible that being born gay or transgendered may have something to do with past karma, but that does not mean that such should be subjected to discrimination by society, as such discrimination is obviously adharmic and a source of bad karma for them as well. It just perpetuates the karmic cycle.
Here is an article on transgenders taking a dip in Kumbh Mela 2019...
In A First, Transgenders Take Holy Dip At Kumbh Mela
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Kali that you worship is not the Supreme because the Supreme advocates a dharmic lifestyle: engaging in abnormal sexual conduct is adharmic. By that I mean one charts ones own dharma by focussing on ones survival with dignity so that one has a fruitful and complete life as a valuable member of society. Any action that one engages with which demeans the person in the eyes of the majority component of society is to be avoided as adharmic.
Yes, I hope you didn't get the message that we should discriminate because they have bad karma. I just presented that as a possibility. I'll speak out against bigotry in as many ways as I can. Unfortunately, most bigots would see no need to do penance for it, although, if they came to their senses they might. Good to see news articles like this. I think being open brings education on the matter.
Since I believe in reincarnation. I agree with all this except for 'in this life'.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
The fact is I have not attained moksha or liberation yet which explains why I blog and post in this Forum: the day I stop doing this will determine whether this theory is correct or not, or whether the only purpose of living is to extend ones life for as long as possible. I am still searching, and make no assumptions still.
Nail meet hammer, because you hit it on the head. I say that from a personal perspective. Even in this life until I decided it was time to stop the hypocrisy and come out, I was a terrible homophobe. I still am to a small degree, strange as that sounds.
I have no personal experience, and can only imagine. Hate seems to permeate the consciousness in some places. After that, it's denial of hate. I've been contemplating the situation substantially lately and I've come to the conclusion that those who say they hate the action, but not the person, are lying to themselves and other cause they can't deal with the mental contradiction.
"We accept homosexuals, love homosexuals, but our belief system says they shouldn't act on it." I say ... what good is a bus driver if he/she can't drive a bus? The action of bus driving is what makes them a bus driver. It's hypocrisy at it's worst. Still, I don't see things changing soon. You can't give them the experience my dentist had. (Fundamentalist Christian, gay son, changed his view)
You mean like condemning an “abnormality” which is perfectly natural (insofar as nature frequently engages in it) and demeaning those who do not fit into the majority? I would consider that to be quite adharmic.
As a Kali devotee I am used to being called adharmic, even though all I am doing is fulfilling my own personal dharma. I do not hold any ill will towards those who besmirch the divine, they are walking their own path and it’s all sibling rivalry in the end.
But given we are overpopulated, I would hasten to add, perhaps not being fruitful is also beneficial to society and indeed our survival as a species. Our survival strategy may have worked in our hunter gatherer days, but that is no longer the case. So we must adapt and think for the long run.
Agreed. It’s the love the sin hate the sinner meme. No one is without sin, no one is perfectly dharmic. I don’t know who is worthy to even say what sin is. Oh wait, it’s right in their scriptures!
I go into the “I’m the police officer who found your lost child; the EMT that gave you CPR; the nurse who took care of you in the hospital; the ER doctor that patched you up... and I’m gay”. Makes ‘em think.
For some reason that reminds me of the 'All in the Family' episode when Archie got locked in the basement, finds some booze, gets hungover, and starts praying to God. Then his African-American neighbour shows up at just the right time. Maybe we need a new politically incorrect situation satire dealing with homophobes. Your scenario could be the first episode.
I would love to see something like that. I can imagine the outcry, wailing and gnashing of teeth from the ‘phobes. I can imagine how many heads are exploding over all the new tv commercials with same sex couples.
Sometimes it takes bold moves. The sad thing about Archie Bunker was that there were folks who actually sided with him, thinking the show was about some new hero, finally telling it like it is, namely Archie.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Sexual enjoyment in marriage in no way diminishes our advance in spirituality. Nearly all rishis were married, even had multiple wives (OK in their time) and had loads of children (Vishwamitra is supposed to have had 60,000). The normal blessing was for a hundred (Shata putravati bhava).
There is so much I want to say, but the two things that leap at me the most is for people to use the multiquote button instead of responding to each person in seperate posts like 10 posts in a row of one person.
Also parts of this thread and the incident with my friend really tempts me to respond rudely to some of the more egregious statements. I don't want to debate but I feel like certain views on the topic are just so narrow and uncomprimising, as if there is only one "right" way when if anything I've always seen Hinduism to be a "many ways" kind of set of religions... even in the Gita Krishna lays out alternatives in one section for various ways to work towards Dharma. Can't recall the section atm or what exactly was said, might google it later. Busy right now but wanted to just say all that before coming back later to this as it was gnawing at me.
Also parts of this thread and the incident with my friend really tempts me to respond rudely to some of the more egregious statements. I don't want to debate but I feel like certain views on the topic are just so narrow and uncomprimising, as if there is only one "right" way when if anything I've always seen Hinduism to be a "many ways" kind of set of religions... even in the Gita Krishna lays out alternatives in one section for various ways to work towards Dharma. Can't recall the section atm or what exactly was said, might google it later. Busy right now but wanted to just say all that before coming back later to this as it was gnawing at me.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Jata dharma tata Jaya. Or where there is dharma there is victory.
So what is dharma: dharma is the course of action that is determined by following the truth path, which means adjusting and accommodating the new discoveries and continue searching till the end of ones life.
How does one know that one has secured victory: by assessing whether one has survived to live another day.
So what is dharma: dharma is the course of action that is determined by following the truth path, which means adjusting and accommodating the new discoveries and continue searching till the end of ones life.
How does one know that one has secured victory: by assessing whether one has survived to live another day.
Viraja
Jaya Jagannatha!
Namaste,
I am just offering here my view because no one has offered this view in this thread so far -
I am not aware of any Hindu scripture defining homosexuality as a taboo. May be they do, may be they don't.
That aside, in my personal opinion, I view homosexuality as a 'permissible relationship' yet 'a relationship of concern'.
It is permissible because it is not something that obstructs others' dharma. 2 people who have strong inclination towards homosexuality participate in this relationship. What's in it for a 3-rd person to comment about it?
It is 'of concern' because while it is okay for those truly inclined to practice this form of relationship, it should not become a medium of strong influence to impress those who are not made this way to take this up because 'it is fun' or 'it is unique' or 'it is easy', etc, etc. Then it becomes 'against the interest of the society to further their generation' because every society wants to persist by bringing forth children.
That said, why should any way of living that does not harm or hurt anyone be a taboo?
Even if it is not sanctioned as per scriptures, we should all bear in mind that every living, even deviation from norm, gives us unique spiritual experiences that we cannot deny....
if some are made to grow 'the homosexual way', then so be it! It is also capable of elevating a person along different dimensions, be it easy or tough.
I am just offering here my view because no one has offered this view in this thread so far -
I am not aware of any Hindu scripture defining homosexuality as a taboo. May be they do, may be they don't.
That aside, in my personal opinion, I view homosexuality as a 'permissible relationship' yet 'a relationship of concern'.
It is permissible because it is not something that obstructs others' dharma. 2 people who have strong inclination towards homosexuality participate in this relationship. What's in it for a 3-rd person to comment about it?
It is 'of concern' because while it is okay for those truly inclined to practice this form of relationship, it should not become a medium of strong influence to impress those who are not made this way to take this up because 'it is fun' or 'it is unique' or 'it is easy', etc, etc. Then it becomes 'against the interest of the society to further their generation' because every society wants to persist by bringing forth children.
That said, why should any way of living that does not harm or hurt anyone be a taboo?
Even if it is not sanctioned as per scriptures, we should all bear in mind that every living, even deviation from norm, gives us unique spiritual experiences that we cannot deny....
if some are made to grow 'the homosexual way', then so be it! It is also capable of elevating a person along different dimensions, be it easy or tough.