Hinduism: Ask your Questions

[want to be hindu]

which were myths created by migrating Aryans.

Many scholars no longer believe that the Aryan migration is real. In fact the BBC called the whole Idea of the Aryan migration racist.

 

[Surya Deva]

Ok, I have some time to spare - barely.

I think Arnak you have already have some good answers by Want to be Hindu and Seyorni. I want to concentrate on your notion that Hinduism is a religion not for people who are logical or scientific in temper and that is a mythical religion like Odinism, full of stories of gods, and their trials, tribulations etc. I believe I said in a short response that if one is truly logical or scientific they would be drawn in by Hinduism.

First of all, and it is an issue I have addressed extensively in this thread itself earlier on. Hinduism is not a polytheistic religion, though some Hindus may well be polytheistic, but this is not doctrinal, this more social practice of some modern Hindus. As Want to be Hindu has told you, you will rarely find anybody who is well-read in Hinduism profess polytheism. It is now widely recognised even in Western primers on Hinduism that Hinduism is not a polytheistic religion and polytheism is just a misconception. Therefore there are not many gods in Hinduism. Instead Hinduism subscribes to a theory known as a monistic idealism, it considers the whole universe to have an underlying being whose nature is pure consciousness and existence(satchitananda) and what could be called the Hindu concept of god. This god is not a god in the popular sense of the word, it is more of an unknown and absolute reality. Hence why there are several interpretations in Hinduism on the nature of this supreme unknown and absolute. If you are familiar with Heidigger, Schrodinger and Bhom, you will not find such a notion to be absurd. In fact the cutting edge of 20th century Philosophy and Science comes very close to the Hindu view of reality.

The idea of multiplicity of 'gods' is based on the immanent and phenomenal reality of that supreme being. This is declared in the Rig Veda in the Nasadiya Sukta, "The gods come after the manifestation of the universe" they are conditional in space and time. The gods are basically various names we give to divine forms like "beauty", "wisdom", "love" and thus very similar to Platonic philosophy of archetypal forms.

Now towards the next point on why Hinduism draws in minds of scientific temper. Hinduism is the source of what is known as the dharmic religions(Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism etc) and the notion of dharma is very crucial to the Hindu worldview. The Hindus consider dharma to be the eternal laws of the universe and reality and thus dharma become a prescription for life in Hinduism. It is a means by which we use knowledge of reality to overcome phenomenal existence(Samsara) and end the cycle of rebirth. This is central to all schools of Hindu Philosophy. Now in the idea that the universe has eternal laws and we must know them to be free is the base for the Hindu scientific attitude. You will find in Vedas a reverence for knowledge, it us synonymous in the Vedas for light, consciousness and life and in the Gayatri Mantra it is euologised. The main purpose of Hinduism is knowledge, but not ordinary knowledge, knowledge which is transcendental - metaphysical knowledge. This knowledge then becomes a way of living life to achieve transcedence.

How does this differ from Buddhism? It differs from Buddhism because it is not skeptical, it is idealist. It does not doubt reality, self or existence, its consideres them to be real and realizable. The entire purpose of life to realise them. The practical method by which we bring about this realisation is known as Yoga, which means the union of the mind with the supreme being, and this union can be affected by various ways. The way is the choice of the sadhika(the adherent)

Who would choose Hinduism? Somebody who has a scientific attitude. That is, that they have a genuine desire to to realise the truth. A belief in truth is fundamental and living ones life as per the principles predicated by the truth is what makes somebody a true Hindu. The Risis that founded our religion are the role-models for a Hindu, they are the ones who achieved transcedence by their austerity, self-control and moal cultivation. They saw reality as it really was and became beacons of light for India. It was based on their poems and injunctions that the edifice of Hinduism was constructed. Hence why Hindus have a very reverential attitude for teachers and consider teachers avatars of god. The spiritual teacher is considered the highest human, the superman.

 

[want to be hindu]

How does this differ from Buddhism? It differs from Buddhism because it is not skeptical, it is idealist. It does not doubt reality, self or existence, its consideres them to be real and realizable. The entire purpose of life to realise them.

You have made many great points. I like to look at it in my own idealst manor.

Buddhists like to use negative Theology they tell us what the TRUTH ( ie. what we call God) is not.

We Hindus love to use Postive Theology to define God. Yet we Hindus also have a place for negative theology.

 

[CSK]

Namaste Don & Suraj, May I add my voice? I first encountered the way of life that is Hinduism six years ago, shortly after my brother was killed 9-11-2001. I was angry and toyed with learning Farsi and Urdu and going to Pakistan or Afghanistan and seeking retribution. Yet I am a logical man as well as being white as a Casper the friendly ghost and looking American as apple pie. I never have thrown money and acted like I was a Raja when a visitor in another country though.

Still, I felt like I should do something so I eventually decided to learn about Islam. I studied the "market" and decided in early 2003 that India was very unique in that 13% of the population was Muslim and there is a smattering of Christians along with Sikhs, those that follow Buddha and of course the dominant Hindu population. I reasoned that I would give Islam a chance and learn from both sides there in a place that had conflict but also compassion... So I joined an Indian site and began to read and write and question. I was there for two years daily. I rose in the rankings until I was the top Blogger there and yet I wanted to be a student not the top dog or a novelty.

An Indian friend of mine ( from the site) stumbled upon Sulekha.com. India's largest site that means (as you know) "good writing" in Hindi. I had always been interested in India because of its wealth of history and culture. The fact that it is the largest democracy in the world and is a key ally made her all the more interesting. Then there was noble India's economy and the massive changes that were taking root that was fascinating. Naturally I was still learning about Islam and even more so about Hinduism along with a lesser extent Jainism and the others I mentioned.

I found Sulekha for a writer like me to be a remarkable site in those days and I kind of became the token non Indian non Hindu top Blogger. We have since dropped the ratings for the 22,000 Bloggers. I built some very important friendships and all the while learning and still giving Islam a chance, despite the sometimes passions that I felt. I became friends with Mike Ghoose the founder of The World Muslim Conference and tried to understand Islam all the time becoming more interested in Hinduism and its history. I was given The Gita by a friend. Sulekha is not per se a religious site but there is plenty of scholars there.

In 2006 a unique set of circumstances led me to Orisha worship and through divination I rose (somewhat reluctantly) to the rank of High Priest, Babalawo with Wanaldo, I wrote a book titled Nature's Ancient Religion where I make many comparisons with Hinduism and the natural aspects of what I believe to be the two oldest way of life's in the world. It is 328 pages so not a pamphlet. I was losing patience with Islam and frankly running out of reasons to believe it was not cancerous at its roots, yet I held on giving it a chance for six years.

Now I have written quite a few Blogs on Islam and the sands of patience have passed through the hourglass for me. Be it education, permissive governments that harbor either passively or actively organizations like LeT, Hamas Hezbollah or others. I see the pretty packaging of Islam and I also see what is deep inside of the package, that is evil and dark. I blame the moderate Muslims who are either too naive or unwilling to see Islam for the intolerant religion it is, I blame the countries who harbor Islam blindly and have no separation between the Religion and State and yes I blame Islam itself for making not only all non believers infidels but those moderates infidels too. I blame the countries for permitting hate to be taught inside their borders and then blaming "stateless actors" I new the violent history of three of four of the Abrahamic branches ( Judaism, Christianity and Islam) but I learned how Islam has purged and butchered Africans of my faith and does to this day. I have seen the statistics that 94% of all terrorism is Islamic over the last 10 years. I see the lack of a hierarchy to change Islam. I hear the calls that the terrorists are not really Muslims.. yet they think they are.be it a poor translation of the Qu'ran or Saudi textbooks, lack of freedoms and opportunities for women it saddens me... I think you understand.

Indeed there are many fine Muslims yet I have to question why they seem unwilling to stand up and be counted instead of merrily rowing town the stream sitting on their hands. I have seen the Hindu reaction to Hyderabad, Bangalore Mumbai.. and on and on. I have seen quotas that ruffle my feathers, corruption and sadness. Mostly though I have seen how the rational wonderful Indians of Hindu faith respond. Hinduism is unlike the Abrahamic religions tolerant and it permits and even encourages its adherents to study other ways of life, much like Taoism. The Vedas age is unchallengeable along with the Haplogroup mapping making India and Hinduism wither the oldest or next to the oldest. It is a fair religion where Lords Shiva or
Vishnu or Brahma are not perfect and the Pataki (legends) are beautiful and real. Sometimes naughty often nice there is a balance to Hinduism that one can feel comfortable and learn at their individual pace, unforced. Indians are beautiful people for the most part much as those from her daughter Buddhism are.

I am sure not an expert on Hinduism nor any way of life or religion, I am a student and blessed to have the opportunity to continue my appreciation for noble India and Hinduism. I will be taking you up on your generous offer in the future. Jai Hind ! and न हि ज्ञानेन सदृशं पवित्रमिह विद्यते

 

[Don Penguinoini]

W-o-w... What a fantastic, amazing post... That is intriguing. You mention Islam, what exactly is it that really made you go against it? I know you mentioned some stuff, but were there any specific experiences that made you go against it?

I really thought that was an amazing post... I didn't really understand it FULLY, are you a Hindu, or something else or just searching? I am not the most intelligent kid around

 

[CSK]

Hi Don, No it was not one particular thing it was enlightenment to the whole. It is like this: Islam CAN be peaceful, yet that is not its nature nor its history. Islam was a very important religion and did many things that were postitive until the 1700's. For example Islam with advances in medicine, astronomy, literature, math, science and arts and culture basically brought the end of The Dark Ages in Europe singlehandedly. Then it transformed largely through fundamentalism or aspects of it. this changed its CORE beliefs.
Like any religious doctrine the Qu'ran has been translated, but how good is the translation? How many translations were there ? How many langueges were involved? Translations until about 20 years ago were word to word, then they wisely became sentence to sentence, now the better ones are paragraph to paragraph and the best ones idea to idea. Therefore was the venacular the same 1400 years ago? Nah don't believe it. It is these interpretations by what you might call radical yet I call fundamentalist elements that have changed Islam. The masses do not see this .. better to follow a more tolerant form of Islam like Sufism minus Maliki.. in my humble opinion. Cheers, CSK

 

[Surya Deva]

CSK,

A very stunning, insightful, honest and tremendous post. I thorougly enjoyed reading it. Yes I resonate with everything you said, but somethings you said are tantamount to, "The emperor is wearing no clothes, but saying he is naked will get you executed" I have already been executed a few times. In fact it was considered worse than when I was slapped with a death threat by a Muslim member a few months ago and viciously abused by another member using unlimited profanity a few weeks ago, neither of which were dealt with. For the record I have never dished out any death threats or used any kind of profanity. I have always been paitent and despite outright abuse against my religion and my motherland, I have been very accomodating of the aggressors and always forgiving and forgetting. I think this went amiss on the jury.

I look forward to your contributions my friend

 

[CSK]

Suraj.... I have no fear of death and fear died inside me long ago.

 

[Breathe]

*revives dead thread*

Question!
Why do asuras exist if everything is one? Do asuras have atman?

 

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

*revives dead thread*

Question!
Why do asuras exist if everything is one? Do asuras have atman?

Of course they are constitutionally atman, or "soul", just like the rest of us.....they are candidates for eventual moksa, just like the rest of us....they are in their present tamasic condition because they have put themselves there :

tan aham dvisatah kruran
samsaresu naradhaman
ksioamy ajasram asubhan
asurisv eva yonisu

"Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, I perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life. " - Bhagavad Gita, 16:19

At some point in their lives, eventually, opportunities of Mercy will arise again even for them.

ys,
bmd.​

 

[Breathe]

Oooh, nice.

What about those demonic beings (rakshas or something? ), they too have souls?
Can devas become human, for example, can Kali Maa become a human, or are the devas immortal?

And in order for moksha, can it happen anywhere? For example; can a Naraka being obtain moksha, or an animal? Or is it only humans, or devas, or something?

 

[bhuvana-mohan dasa]

Oooh, nice.

What about those demonic beings (rakshas or something? ), they too have souls?
Can devas become human, for example, can Kali Maa become a human, or are the devas immortal?

Devas (including Lord Brahma) are not immortal. A "day of Brahma" is 4,320,000,000 years. His nights (or the intermittent periods of non-manifestation, where everything merges into the mahatattva) are equally long...multiplying the sum of these by 365 gives you the length of Brahma's year.....Brahma lives 100 such years, and then he "dies".

All life has souls, including plants and trees- the symptom of the soul's presence is chit, or consciousness.

Rakshasas have consciousness (& i'll add at this point that most of the ones that we encounter here, as well as asuras, are human beings.

Kali Ma , in my opinion, could incarnate as human if she so desires. We know, also, that Devaki gave birth to an avatara ("descent") of Durga in Kamsa's prison prior to giving birth to Lord Krishna, as per Canto 10 of Srimad-Bhagavatam.

ys,
bmd.

And in order for moksha, can it happen anywhere? For example; can a Naraka being obtain moksha, or an animal? Or is it only humans, or devas, or something?

Only from the platform of humans and devas- Ravana, for example, being simultaneously "humanoid" and a rakshasa, achieved moksa when killed by Lord Ramachandra (and so did Kamsa, when killed by Krishna; ALSO Hiranyakasipu, when killed by the Man-Lion, Nrsimhadeva.

ys,
bmd

 

[GURSIKH]

Question!
Why do asuras exist if everything is one?

hi od ji satnam ,

following may help , its by 10th NANAK IN "AKAAL USTAT "

त्वप्रसादि ॥ कबि्त ॥
BY THY GRACE KABITT

ਕਤਹੂੰ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਚੇਤਨਾ ਕੋ ਚਾਰ ਕੀਓ ਕਤਹੂੰ ਅਚਿੰਤ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਸੋਵਤ ਅਚੇਤ ਹੋ ॥

O Lord! Somewhere becoming Conscious, Thou adrnest consciousness; somewhere becoming Carefree, thou sleepest unconsciously.

ਕਤਹੂੰ ਭਿਖਾਰੀ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਮਾਂਗਤ ਫਿਰਤ ਭੀਖ ਕਹੂੰ ਮਹਾ ਦਾਨਿ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਮਾਂਗਿਓ ਧਨ ਦੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere becoming a beggar, Thou beggest alms and somewhere becoming a Supreme Donor, Thou bestowest the begged wealth.

ਕਹੂੰ ਮਹਾਂ ਰਾਜਨ ਕੋ ਦੀਜਤ ਅਨੰਤ ਦਾਨ ਕਹੂੰ ਮਹਾ ਰਾਜਨ ਤੇ ਛੀਨ ਛਿਤ ਲੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
Some where Thou givest inexhaustible gifts to emperors and somewhere Thou deprivest the emperors of their kingdoms.

ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦਿ ਰੀਤਿ ਕਹੂੰ ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਬਿਪਰੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਤ੍ਰਿਗੁਨ ਅਤੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਸਮੇਤ ਹੋ ॥੧॥੧੧॥
Somewhere Thou workest in accordance with Vedic rites and somewhere Thou art quite opposed to it; somewhere Thou art without three modes of maya and somewhere Thou hast all godly attributes.1.11.

ਕਹੂੰ ਜੱਛ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਉਰਗ ਕਹੂੰ ਬਿਦਿਆਧਰ ਕਹੂੰ ਭਏ ਕਿੰਨਰ ਪਿਸਾਚ ਕਹੂੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
O Lord! Somewhere Thou art Yaksha, Gandharva, Sheshanaga and Vidyadhar and somewhere Thou becomest Kinnar, Pishacha and Preta.

ਕਹੂੰ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਹਿੰਦੂਆ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਪਤ ਜਪਿਓ ਕਹੂੰ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਤੁਰਕਾ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ ਬਾਂਗ ਦੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere Thou becomest a Hindu and repeatest Gayatri secretly: Somewhere becoming a Turk Thou callest Muslims to worship.

ਕਹੂੰ ਕੋਕ ਕਾਬ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੜਤ ਮਤਿ ਕਤਹੂੰ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਕੋ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਜਾਨ ਲੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere being a poet thou recitest the Pauranic wisdom and somewhere Thou recitest the Pauranic wisdom and somewhere Thou comprehendest the essence of Quran.

ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਰੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਬਿਪਰੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਤ੍ਰਿਗੁਨ ਅਤੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੁਰਗੁਨ ਸਮੇਤ ਹੋ ॥੨॥੧੨॥
Somewhere Thou workest in accordance with Vedic rites and somewhere Thou art quite opposed to it; somewhere Thou art without threee modes of maya and somewhere Thou hast all godly attributes. 2.12.

ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵਤਾਨ ਕੇ ਦਿਵਾਨ ਮੈ ਬਿਰਾਜਮਾਨ ਕਹੂੰ ਦਾਨਵਾਨ ਕੋ ਗੁਮਾਨ ਮਤਿ ਦੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
O Lord! Somewhere Thou art seated in the Court of gods and somewhere Thou givest the egoistic intellect to demons.

ਕਹੂੰ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਰਾਜਾ ਕੋ ਮਿਲਤ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਪਦਵੀ ਸੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਪਦਵੀ ਛਪਾਇ ਛੀਨ ਲੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere Thou Bestowest the position of of the king of gods to Indra and somewhere Thou deprivest Indra of this position.

ਕਤਹੂੰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਬਿਚਾਰ ਕੋ ਬਿਚਾਰਤ ਹੋ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਿਜ ਨਾਰਿ ਪਰਨਾਰਿ ਕੇ ਨਿਕੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere Thou discriminatest between good and bad intellect, somewhere Thou art with Thy own spouse and somewhere with another`s wife.


ਕਹੂੰ ਸਸਤ੍ਰਧਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਬਿਦਿਆ ਕੇ ਬਿਚਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਮਾਰਤ ਅਹਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਨਿਕੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
O Lord! Somewhere Thou art an armed warrior, somewhere Thou art an armed warrior, somewhere a learned thinker, somewhere a hunter and somewhere an enjoyer of women.

ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਾਰਦਾ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਮੰਗਲਾ ਮ੍ਰਿੜਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਿਆਮ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere Thou art the divine speech, somewhere Sarada and Bhavani, somewhere Durga, the trampler of corpses, somewhere in black colour and somewhere in white colour.

ਕਹੂੰ ਧਰਮ ਪਾਮੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਰਬ ਠਉਰ ਗਾਮੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਜਤੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਕਾਮੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਲੇਤ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere Thou art abode of Dharma (righteousness), somewhere All-Pervading, somewhere a celibate, somewhere a lustful person, somewhere a donor and somewhere a taker.


ਕਹੂੰ ਜਟਾਧਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਕੰਠੀ ਧਰੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਚਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਜੋਗ ਸਾਧੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਾਧਨਾ ਕਰਤ ਹੋ ॥
O Lord! Somewhere Thou art a sage wearing matted hair, somewhere Thu art a rosary-wearing celibate, somewhere Thou art a rosary-wearing celibate, somewhere Thou hast practiced Yoga and somewhere Thou art practicing Yoga.


ਕਤਹੂੰ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਸਾਧਤ ਸਿਲਾਹਨ ਕੌ ਕਹੂੰ ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਅਰ ਮਾਰਤ ਮਰਤ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere becoming a soldier, Thou practisest arms and somewhere becoming a kshatriya, Thou slayest the enemy or be slayed Thyself.

ਕਹੂੰ ਗੀਤ ਨਾਦ ਕੇ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਕੌ ਬਤਾਵਤ ਹੋ ਕਹੂੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਤਕਾਰੀ ਚਿਤ੍ਰਕਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਹੋ ॥
O Lord! Somewhere Thou elucidatest the traits of song and sound and somewhere Thou art the treasure of dancing and painting.

ਕਤਹੂੰ ਪਯੂਖ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਪੀਵਤ ਪਿਵਾਵਤ ਹੋ ਕਤਹੂੰ ਮਯੂਖ ਊਖ ਕਹੂੰ ਮਦ ਪਾਨ ਹੋ ॥
Somewhere Thou art ambrosia which Thou drinkest and causest to drink, somewhere Thou art honey and sugarcane juice and somewhere Thou seemest intoxicated with wine.


ਕਹੂੰ ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਕਹੂੰ ਦ੍ਰਬ ਕੇ ਅਧੀਨ ਕਹੂੰ ਬਿਦਿਆ ਮੈ ਪ੍ਰਬੀਨ ਕਹੂੰ ਭੂਮ ਕਹੂੰ ਭਾਨ ਹੋ ॥੬॥੧੬॥
Somewhere thou art very humble, somewhere Thou art full of ego, somewhere Thou art an adept in learning, somewhere Thou art earth and somewhere Thou art the sun. 6.16.

ਕਹੂੰ ਅਕਲੰਕ ਕਹੂੰ ਮਾਰਤ ਮਯੰਕ ਕਹੂੰ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰਜੰਕ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੁੱਧਤਾ ਕੀ ਸਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
O Lord! Somewhere Thou art without any blemish, somewhere Thou smitest the moon, somewhere Thou art completely engrossed in enjoyment on Thy couch and somewhere Thou art the essence of Purity.

ਕਹੂੰ ਛਤ੍ਰਧਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਛਾਲਾ ਧਰੇ ਛੈਲ ਭਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਛਕਵਾਰੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਛਲ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥੭॥੧੭॥
Somewhere Thou art a mighty sovereign, somewhere Thou art a great preceptor sitting on a deer-skin, somewhere Thou art prone to be deceived and somewhere Thou art various types of deception Thyself. 7.17.


ਜੋਬਨ ਕੇ ਜਾਲ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕੇ ਕਾਲ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਸਤ੍ਰਨ ਕੇ ਸੂਲ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਮਿਤ੍ਰਨ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਹੋ ॥੯॥੧੯॥
Thou art the snare of youth, the Death of Death, the anguish of enemies and the life of the friends. 9.19.


ਕਹੂੰ ਬਰ ਦੇਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਛਲ ਸਿਉ ਛਿਨਾਇ ਲੇਤ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਸਰਬ ਠਉਰ ਏਕ ਸੇ ਲਗਤ ਹੋ ॥੧੦॥੨੦॥
Somewhere Thou bestowest the Boon and somewhere withdraw it with deceit. Thou at all times and at all the places Thou comest into view as the same. 10.20

at the end of this ,GURU repeated ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ ie " YOU ONLY YOU :SEVERAL TIMES



ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ॥ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥੧੯॥੬੯॥
तुहीं तुहीं ॥ तुहीं तुहीं ॥ तुहीं तुहीं ॥ तुहीं तुहीं ॥१९॥६९॥
YOU ONLY YOU ,YOU ONLY YOU , YOU ONLY YOU ,YOU ONLY YOU . 19.69.

ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥੨੦॥੭੦॥
तुहीं तुहीं ॥ तुहीं तुहीं ॥ तुहीं तुहीं ॥ तुहीं तुहीं ॥२०॥७०॥YOU ONLY YOU ONLY YOU ,YOU ONLY YOU , YOU ONLY YOU ,YOU ONLY YOU .20


LOVE

 

[S-word]

I am surprised at the enormous amount of disinterest in this religion with the non-Indian members(Even in the Hinduism forum the majority of posters are of Indian origin) and yet it's the third largest religion in the world and one of the oldest, if not the oldest religion in the world.

I am sure there must be some questions about Hinduism that people may want to ask. I invite people of all religions, especially Christians and Muslims to ask me questions on Hinduism. Anything you want to know.

It benefits us both. You get to learn about Hinduism and I get to sharpen my answering skills

I meant to get back to you ages ago, but somehow you got lost among the threads, Anyway, here is my question.

Origen, who was well versed in the writings of Enoch, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

The nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day’ that is a period of universal activity, which is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity.

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

Do Hindues believe in a universe that eternally oscilates between periods of visible activity and invisible rest? And that, 'according to the Bible,' one day this universe will roll up as a scroll and the universal elements becoming so excited will burn up and fall as fire into the great abyss or black hole from which it originated, from where it will later burst forth, to be apparently resurrected from the seeming bottomless pit into which it had descended, and awakened to visible life and activity once more, to continue on in its eternal evolution?

 

[S-word]

I am surprised at the enormous amount of disinterest in this religion with the non-Indian members(Even in the Hinduism forum the majority of posters are of Indian origin) and yet it's the third largest religion in the world and one of the oldest, if not the oldest religion in the world.

I am sure there must be some questions about Hinduism that people may want to ask. I invite people of all religions, especially Christians and Muslims to ask me questions on Hinduism. Anything you want to know.

It benefits us both. You get to learn about Hinduism and I get to sharpen my answering skills

Two weeks ago my question was asked and still no answer.

 

[Andal]

Two weeks ago my question was asked and still no answer.

Interesting question. I think the thing to remember when both looking at Hinduism and Buddhism is that unlike the works of Origen, each consecutive world is not moving higher on a cosmic scale.

During the day of Brahman (kalpa) all life manifests, when he sleeps (second kalpa) the earthly realms, underwolds, and lower heavens disovlve. When he awakes those beings are reincarnated. Each Brahma lives for 100 years. At the end of the 100 years there is the Mahapralaya where all the material worlds are dissolved and those beings will not reincarnate again.

It is not so much evolution but just cyclical existence. During each day/ night of Brahma there are 14 Manvantaras. Each Manvantara is made up of 71 Mahayugas and each Maha Yuga contains 4 yugas, we are currently in the last yuga (Kali) of the 28th Mahayuga of the 7th Manvantara of first day of the 51st year of our current Brahma.

Ulimately it is not the material universe that evolves but the souls who live in it.

 

[S-word]

Interesting question. I think the thing to remember when both looking at Hinduism and Buddhism is that unlike the works of Origen, each consecutive world is not moving higher on a cosmic scale.

During the day of Brahman (kalpa) all life manifests, when he sleeps (second kalpa) the earthly realms, underwolds, and lower heavens disovlve. When he awakes those beings are reincarnated. Each Brahma lives for 100 years. At the end of the 100 years there is the Mahapralaya where all the material worlds are dissolved and those beings will not reincarnate again.

It is not so much evolution but just cyclical existence. During each day/ night of Brahma there are 14 Manvantaras. Each Manvantara is made up of 71 Mahayugas and each Maha Yuga contains 4 yugas, we are currently in the last yuga (Kali) of the 28th Mahayuga of the 7th Manvantara of first day of the 51st year of our current Brahma.

Ulimately it is not the material universe that evolves but the souls who live in it.

From what I have read I would have thought that it is Brahmin, the essential reality of the universe; the divine and eternal spirit from which all being originates and to whom all must return, who is eternally evolving: and that Krishna, the eighth and principle avatar of the saviour deity "Vishnu," will, at the close of this period of universal activity, enter Brahmin as the supreme personality of godhead within the ever evolving "Brahmin," from whom all being originates and to who all must return, who, in his periods of activity is made manifest, or should I say "Perceived" as the visible eternal evolving universal body, through the senses of all the beings which originated from Him and are in fact, He who is one.

 

[Andal]

From what I have read I would have thought that it is Brahmin, the essential reality of the universe; the divine and eternal spirit from which all being originates and to whom all must return, who is eternally evolving: and that Krishna, the eighth and principle avatar of the saviour deity "Vishnu," will, at the close of this period of universal activity, enter Brahmin as the supreme personality of godhead within the ever evolving "Brahmin," from whom all being originates and to who all must return, who, in his periods of activity is made manifest, or should I say "Perceived" as the visible eternal evolving universal body, through the senses of all the beings which originated from Him and are in fact, He who is one.

This is going to depend on whom you ask as there are varying views. Brahma is the vehicle through which the material worlds are created. He creates because it is Krishna/ Vishnu's desire. He is a primary servant of God. So when pralaya occurs everything dissolves back to him only to be recreated again as per the desire of God. This dissolution may be brought about at the hands of Lord Nataraj (Shiva) who is sometimes viewed as the supereme devotee of God and other times is seen as being the same as Vishnu (Harihara). For Shiva devotees it's a different conception as well.

The view you presented about Brahman (brahmin is a priest) is very popular among some impersonalists but it is not the preementant Hindu doctrine. It is only one of many and may not even be the most prevalant throughout the world.

The other understanding is, is that Brahman is an energy of the Lord but is not above the supreme personality of God. Krishna is Svayam Bhagavan (the supreme) Vishnu is merely another name for him. In fact the entire Dasavatara (10 incarnations) originate from Krishna. The ultimate reality is one of a personal relationship with God thus there is no dissolution into Brahman. Within the this frame work, although Brahman exists as an energy and I have heard some explain that the atman is made from the energy of Brahman but the true self is never lost. Even when we finally enter Goloka, we are seperate beings from God in that we have characteristics and can experience. But we are also the same as God in that our natures are the ultimately the same (we are both spiritual beings by nature)

Even when mahapralaya occurs too, the spiritual worlds Vaikunta/ Goloka do not dissolve, only the material worlds due.

Hari Om!

 

[NoahideHiker]

Thanks Zenzero,

I too have not had any formal training, except for attending a few meditation groups, but they hardly teach you anything other than to sit down and meditate. There is no help with the 'HOW' part. I have no doubt that most of the people who attend these groups are doing it wrong due to poor instruction. I really do wish to have a Guru and I really hope I find one in this life.

Regarding making the minds free of thoughts. It is like trying to drain out an ocean with a cup, no matter how much you emtpy the mind of thoughts, more thoughts will continue to surface. In fact the Yoga gurus say it is impossible not for the mind to think it is the nature of the mind to think. Rather, than emptying the mind, focus the mind on only one object. However, it is difficult to focus one on that one object in a normal state of consciousness. This is why Dharana(assuming the object) only takes place after Pranayama and Pratyahara. First steady the breath and mind, and when you enter the state of Pratyahara, only then assume the object of meditation. The meditation schools one attends tell you to assume the object from the beginning itself, and a lot of them make it even harder and suggest you assume, "Everything is infinite" or "Everything is Brahman" or "I am Brahman" and I found meditating like this virtually impossible. The first problem is the mind is unsteady, disturbed and distracted and the second problem is the concept is too abstract to relate to. There is a very big danger of thinking this is meditation and habitualizing it. Somebody can think they are progressing, but actually it is only an illusion of progress created by their mind. It is paramount, absolutely paramount, that one first stabalises their breath and achieives sensory deprivation before they start meditation on an object. Their object itself should be something REAL for them, not abstract.

I wish you good luck on your practice!

When I started doing/learning about yoga I was very surprised how much was shared by it's teachings and those from my faith. Many of the concepts and ideas were the same. It has lead me to further study the eight limbs as well as the concepts of our physical beings such as the chakras.

I find meditation very hard. My favorite is Savasana. Most times when I meditate I just repeat "Love, respect, compassion." in my mind as kind of a mantra. Other times I just let my mind go and wander wherever it wants in kind of a free flowing dialog with itself. When I can not get my mind to slow down (much less stop) I sometimes envision a black, white piece of paper and focus on that.

 

[S-word]

Originally Posted by S-word

From what I have read I would have thought that it is Brahmin, the essential reality of the universe; the divine and eternal spirit from which all being originates and to whom all must return, who is eternally evolving: and that Krishna, the eighth and principle avatar of the saviour deity "Vishnu," will, at the close of this period of universal activity, enter Brahmin as the supreme personality of godhead within the ever evolving "Brahmin," from whom all being originates and to who all must return, who, in his periods of activity is made manifest, or should I say "Perceived" as the visible eternal evolving universal body, through the senses of all the beings which originated from Him and are in fact, He who is one.


This is going to depend on whom you ask as there are varying views. Brahma is the vehicle through which the material worlds are created.

The root to the word ‘Brahman’ originally meant ‘Speech,’ much the same as ‘Logos’ is translated ‘Word’. When we wish to express all the information that we have gathered over our lifetime, in the main, we express that information in our speech or our words, but we can also express that information in our creations etc.

Surely Brahman/Logos, the essential reality of the universe; the eternal spirit=mind from which all being originates and to whom all must return, does not express that stored information in verbal terms, but in the creation itself and all that can be known about God is plain to us for it is made plain in the physical universal body that is the visible image of the invisible and eternal evolving mind that is God, for the only mind that ceases to interact with its gathered information and ceases to evolve is a mind that is dead.

He creates because it is Krishna/ Vishnu's desire.

At the awakening of each universal period of activity, it is the most high that had evolved in the previous period of activity, who says, “Let there be light,” and He is the observer of the handiwork of Brahman/Logos, and the observer who is the Godhead that had developed in the previous universal body and who dies in the process of involution, in order to be the saviour of those who were cast back into the refining fires of this eternal cyclic three dimensional world, who are in the process of re-incarnation or resurrection, in the eternal process of the evolution of the mind that is God.


He (Brahman) is a primary servant of God. So when pralaya occurs everything dissolves back to him (Brahman) only to be recreated again as per the desire of God, (who is Presumably Krishna/Vishnu) . (because it is Krishna/ Vishnu's desire.)


You will have to make yourself plainer here, are you saying that Brahman who is the essential reality of the universe from whom all being originates and to whom all must return, is a servant to the being who originated from him, and that is Krishna the eighth manifestation of the ever evolving Vishnu, a being who originated from Brahman?


This dissolution may be brought about at the hands of Lord Nataraj (Shiva) who is sometimes viewed as the supereme devotee of God and other times is seen as being the same as Vishnu (Harihara). For Shiva devotees it's a different conception as well.

I have always understood that Shiva who, like Satan the destroyer is sometimes represented as a serpent, is one of the three persons of the triune God, Brahman being the mind that is God and Vishnu and Shiva being the negative and positive aspects of the ever evolving mind that is Brahman, much the same as Michael the saviour and Satan the destroyer stand on the right and left of Logos, who is the mind that is God; the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universal body.

Unlike most Christians, (although not all,) who insult the glorious beings above us, by depicting God’s glorious angel Lucifer the Light bearer, the bright morning star, as a pox riddled, puss oozing, sulphuric foul smelling demonic being; the Hindu sees Shiva the destroyer, who like Satan is represented as a serpent, as a co-creator with God, destroying the old only in order to make way for the new.