Hindus & Idol Worship

[Aamer]

So I've read the Old Testament, New Testament and Quran, and I'm just now starting to dig into the Hindu scriptures. I'm starting to think it's one message from one God, but some of the scriptures may have been altered. Anyway, my question to hindus is this. I haven't yet found any verse in your scriptures encouraging, condoning or allowing idol worship. I have, however, seen verses condemning it. This is surprising for me because I am Indian. I have always associated Hindu religion to idol worship. But the scriptures don't seem to match the current practice so far from what I have seen. Are there verses in the scriptures which encourage the worship of idols that exist today? Can you please show me where they are? And if you're Hindu, I'd love to get your perspective on worshiping statues, etc. Do you believe they have the power to help you? Do you participate in it? I have many Hindu friends but they just follow the herd, like most members of every other religion. I'd like to hear from hindus who have actually studied and learned. Thanks.

 

[Poeticus]

Namaste and Peace Be With You:

I haven't yet found any verse in your scriptures encouraging, condoning or allowing idol worship. I have, however, seen verses condemning it.

Can you be kind enough to post these verses in the following manner:

1. In English...
2. In the Sanskrit...
3. Verse Identification: scripture name, book number, chapter number, and verse number...

?

This way, I can review these verses you speak of.

but some of the scriptures may have been altered

Which scriptures did you have in mind? And, on what basis are you making the claim that they were altered?

But the scriptures don't seem to match the current practice so far from what I have seen.

Which scriptures do you mean? I was wondering if you could be as specific and detailed as possible. Also, keep in mind that there are many scriptures and not all of them speak for all the various religions of the Hindu conglomeration.

Furthermore, the following from Huston Smith, a renowned scholar, should help you understand "murti puja":

"Enter Hinduism’s myths, her magnificent symbols, her several hundred images of God,
her rituals that keep turning night and day like never-ending prayer wheels.
It is obtuse to confuse Hinduism’s images with idolatry, and their multiplicity with polytheism.
They are ‘runways’ from which the sense-laden human spirit can rise for its “flight of the alone to the Alone”.
Even village priest will frequently open their temple ceremonies with the following beloved invocation:
'O Lord, forgive three sins that are due to my human limitations:
Thou art everywhere, but I worship you here;
Thou art without form, but I worship you in these forms;
Thou needest no praise, yet I offer you these prayers and salutations,
Lord, forgive three sins that are due to my human limitations.'"
-World’s Religion by Huston Smith.

Do you participate in it?

I am a proud Shirk.

 

[Treks]

"Enter Hinduism’s myths, her magnificent symbols, her several hundred images of God,
her rituals that keep turning night and day like never-ending prayer wheels.
It is obtuse to confuse Hinduism’s images with idolatry, and their multiplicity with polytheism.
They are ‘runways’ from which the sense-laden human spirit can rise for its “flight of the alone to the Alone”.
Even village priest will frequently open their temple ceremonies with the following beloved invocation:
'O Lord, forgive three sins that are due to my human limitations:
Thou art everywhere, but I worship you here;
Thou art without form, but I worship you in these forms;
Thou needest no praise, yet I offer you these prayers and salutations,
Lord, forgive three sins that are due to my human limitations.'"
-World’s Religion by Huston Smith.

Nice! Is that from a specific Sanatan text? Much impressed.

 

[Poeticus]

Nice! Is that from a specific Sanatan text? Much impressed.

Namaste, Treks-ji:

If memory serves me right, it's either from the Bhagavatam or the Gita (chapter 16 ?). But, I am probably mistaken. Hopefully, I can find the Verse Citation by tomorrow. I am not too familiar with the Bhagavatam, but I shall see what I can come across.

 

[Aamer]

From Vedas*Prohibition of Idol Worship in Yajurveda*

"There is no image of him. He is unborned and He should be worshipped" (Yajurveda, Chapter 32, Verse 3)*

"God is bodyless and pure" (Yajurveda, Chapter 40, Verse 8)*

"They are entering darkness, those who worship the natural things(like air, water, fire etc.), they are sinking more in darkness who worship created things." (Yajurveda, Chapter 40, Verse 9)*

Monotheism in Rigveda

*"Say this, all one God in many names" (Rigveda, Book 1, Hymn 164, Verse 46)

*"Do not worship anyone besides him alone, praise him alone" (Rigveda, Book 8, Hymn 1, Verse 1)*

"Praise him would matchless and alone" (Rigveda, Book 6, Hymn 45, Verse 16)*

From Bhagavad Gita*

"Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires, they worship demigods" (Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 7, Verse 20)*

From Upanishad*Prohibition of Idol Worship in Upanishad*

"There is no likeness of him" (Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 4, Verse 19)*

"His form cannot be seen, No one can see him with the eyes" (Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 4, Verse 20)

*Monotheism in Upanishad*

"God is one and only, not a second" (Chandogya Upanishad, Chapter 6, Section 2, Verse 1)*

"Of him (God), there is no parents, no Lord" (Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 6, Verse 9)

*Monotheism in Vedantha*

"There is only one god, Not a second one, not at all, not at all, not in a least bit" (Brahma Sutra)*

 

[Aamer]

As for why I believe scriptures (namely Torah, old and new testament) have been altered, is because I have found countless contradictions in them. I have also found countless contradictions in the Hadith which Muslims believe in. The only book I haven't found any contradictions in is Quran, which is why I'm a Quran alone monotheist (not the same thing as a Sunni or Shia Muslim). I can't say anything about the Hindu scriptures yet because I'm not far along enough in my research. Peace.

 

[nameless]

Aemer, you are a zakir naik fan?

 

[nithyastha]

So I've read the Old Testament, New Testament and Quran, and I'm just now starting to dig into the Hindu scriptures. I'm starting to think it's one message from one God, but some of the scriptures may have been altered. Anyway, my question to hindus is this. I haven't yet found any verse in your scriptures encouraging, condoning or allowing idol worship. I have, however, seen verses condemning it. This is surprising for me because I am Indian. I have always associated Hindu religion to idol worship. But the scriptures don't seem to match the current practice so far from what I have seen. Are there verses in the scriptures which encourage the worship of idols that exist today? Can you please show me where they are? And if you're Hindu, I'd love to get your perspective on worshiping statues, etc. Do you believe they have the power to help you? Do you participate in it? I have many Hindu friends but they just follow the herd, like most members of every other religion. I'd like to hear from hindus who have actually studied and learned. Thanks.

First Understand this, Hinduism is not the original Name It is given by Foreigners(Invaders), Original name is Sanathana Dharma.

Sanathana Dharma is Not a religion, it is a way of Life.

There are So many Streams in Sanathana Dharma. There are So many Religions in Sanathana Dharma.

There are so many Parts Philosiphical , Ritual and Puranic Parts.

There are So many Major Philosophies ,

Samkhya, the enumeration school
Yoga, the school of Patanjali (which provisionally asserts the metaphysics of Samkhya)
Nyaya, the school of logic
Vaisheshika, the atomist school
Purva Mimamsa (or simply Mimamsa), the tradition of Vedic exegesis, with emphasis on Vedic ritual, and
Vedanta (also called Uttara Mimamsa), the Upanishadic tradition, with emphasis on Vedic philosophy.



There are four vedas Rig, Yajur, Sama and Adharvana vedha.

Vedantha is the Extract of Vedas.

there are 108 Upanishads.

Puranas are History of Hinduisms Different Streams.

 

[nithyastha]

Puranas are History of Hinduisms Different Streams.

Mahapuranas
Of the many texts designated 'Puranas' the most important are the Mahāpurāṇas. These are always said to be eighteen in number, divided into three groups of six, though in fact they are not always counted in the same way. Combining the various lists Cornelia Dimmitt and J. A. B. van Buitenen have collated twenty names, totalling 429,000 verses:[20]

Purana's Names and Description
Agni 15,400 verses Contains details of Vastu Shastra and Gemology.
Bhagavata 18,000 verses Indologist Ludo Rocher considers it to be the most celebrated and popular of the Puranas,[21][22] telling of Vishnu's ten Avatars. Its tenth and longest canto narrates the deeds of Krishna, introducing his childhood exploits, a theme later elaborated by many Bhakti movements.[23]
Bhavishya 14,500 verses Contains a record of prophecies. This book have many later insertion. Portions of the extant text are drawn from the law book of Manu.[24]
Brahma 10,000 verses Describes the Godavari and its tributaries. It is shortest of the Puranas.
Brahmanda 12,000 verses Includes Lalita Sahasranamam, a text some Hindus recite as prayer. It Describes the Creation of the Universe Veery Scientificaly Which Matches with Modern Science.
Brahmavaivarta 17,000 verses Describes ways to worship Devis, Krishna and Ganesha.
Garuda 19,000 verses Describes death and its aftermaths.
Harivamsa 16,000 verses Is considered to be itihāsa (epic poetry).
Kurma 17,000 verses
Linga 11,000 verses Describes the magnificence of Lingam, symbol of Shiva, and origin of the universe. It also contains many stories of Lingam one of which entails how Agni Lingam solved dispute between Vishnu and Brahma.
Markandeya 09,000 verses The Devi Mahatmya, an important text for the Shaktas, is embedded in it.
Matsya 14,000 verses Narrates the story of Matsya, the first of ten major Avatars of Vishnu. It also contains genealogical details of various dynasties.[25]
Narada 25,000 verses Describes the greatness of Vedas and Vedangas.
Padma 55,000 verses Describes the greatness of Bhagavad Gita. Hence, it is also known as gītāmāhātmya (lit. the majesty of Gita).
Shiva 24,000 verses Describes the greatness of Shiva, greatness in worshiping Shiva and other stories about him.
Skanda 81,100 verses Describes the birth of Skanda (or Karthikeya), second son of Shiva. The longest Purana, it is an extraordinarily meticulous pilgrimage guide, containing geographical locations of pilgrimage centers in India, with related legends, parables, hymns and stories. Many untraced quotes are attributed to this text.[26]
Vamana 10,000 verses Describes areas around Kurukshetra in North India.
Varaha 24,000 verses Describes various forms prayer and devotional observances to Vishnu. Many illustrations also involve Shiva and Durga.[27]
Vayu 24,000 verses Another name of Shiva Purana
Vishnu 23,000 verses Describes the many deeds of Vishnu and various ways to worship him.[28]

 

[Aamer]

Aemer, you are a zakir naik fan?

You mean Zakir Fake? The hypocrite? No. I'm not a traditional Muslim like the ones you probably know. I seek the truth, not the BS the scholars feed me.

 

[nithyastha]

Hinduism is Not Like other Religions , Having only one Main Stream ,
Hinduism Has Many Mainstreams, At Least 7 Mainstreams.

 

[Aamer]

It seems the Hindu scriptures are more expansive than I realized. The reason I was interested in the first place to learn more about them is because of the scientific proofs they contain. That's one of the main reasons I accepted Quran... Scientific proofs, math formulas, word patterns and most importantly, it's free of contradictions. I have a feeling some Hindu scriptures also come from the same creator. I have a feeling it's all one truth but humans have manipulated the message in all religions. But the praying to statues makes no sense to me, no disrespect, but it doesn't. That's why I'm trying to learn more and see if there's a connection and where it originates from.

 

[nithyastha]

It seems the Hindu scriptures are more expansive than I realized. The reason I was interested in the first place to learn more about them is because of the scientific proofs they contain. That's one of the main reasons I accepted Quran... Scientific proofs, math formulas, word patterns and most importantly, it's free of contradictions. I have a feeling some Hindu scriptures also come from the same creator. I have a feeling it's all one truth but humans have manipulated the message in all religions. But the praying to statues makes no sense to me, no disrespect, but it doesn't. That's why I'm trying to learn more and see if there's a connection and where it originates from.

Hindus are not Worshiping Idols, We are Worshiping Thru Idols.

The Supreme God is Formeless and God Cannot be Cognized By our Mind.

We Cannot Relate with Formless Directly, even we cannot Imagine Formless, any imagination of Formless is false.

Beings Who have Realized Formless,Higher Beings are Equal to Formless, They are Worshiped as God, which Direcly is Worshiping the formless.When They Leave the Body They are Worshiped as Deitys.

It is Like For Any Nation The NAtional Flag Represents the NAtion, It is like this How the Flag Represents Nation or Group of People,

Each Deity, Deity's are Energised Idols Which is Alive And Connected to Formless, It Can Respond To Our Thoughts (This itself is a Seperate Great Seience Which Only Hindus Know).

The Energization Process of Deitys are Called Prana Pratishta.

They are Alive Representation of Different Cosmic Energies.

Different Energies are Represented By Different Deity's.

 

[Poeticus]

Namaste,

I asked for the Sanskrit verses as well. Can you be kind enough to post the Sanskrit verses as well?

And, just as a side note, please keep in the mind the following corrections of a few of your posts:

"Say this, all one God in many names" (Rigveda, Book 1, Hymn 164, Verse 46)

Um, that is incorrect. Let us take a closer look at the above, which is only the second part of a complete verse:

1.164.46a índram mitráṃ váruṇam agním āhur
1.164.46b átho divyáḥ sá suparṇó garútmān
1.164.46c ékaṃ sád víprā bahudhā́ vadanti
1.164.46d agníṃ yamám mātaríśvānam āhuḥ

This verse is found in Sukta 164, "composed" by Rishi Dīrghatamā Aucathya in the Trishtup Chanda. This verse is dedicated to the All-Gods (Vishve-Devah). Thus, this verse is not a good representation of monotheism as per Shruti Pramāna. The correct translation is: "the truth the sages laud is spoken as Agni, Yama, Matarishvana as one conglomeration [in other words, we praise all ye Gods together in unity]".

"Do not worship anyone besides him alone, praise him alone" (Rigveda, Book 8, Hymn 1, Verse 1)

Um. The verse in said question should actually be as follows:

8.001.01a mā́ cid anyád ví śaṃsata
8.001.01b sákhāyo mā́ riṣaṇyata
8.001.01c índram ít stotā vŕ̥ṣaṇaṃ sácā suté
8.001.01d múhur ukthā́ ca śaṃsata

This verse is dedicated to Lord Shri Indra (who is extremely, potently different from the Islamic Allah so please do not say that Hindus, especially Rig Vedic Shrautins such as myself believe in the same god ... also, if your attempt is at proselytization, please know that this is against the forum rules) in Sukta 1 of Mandala 8, "composed" by Rishi Pragātha Ghaura Kānva and should translate as the following:

"Repeat, friends, no other praise, be not hurtful (to yourselves);
praise together Indra, the bestower (of benefits) when the God Soma is effused;
repeately utter praise (to him):" [Lord Shri Indra is not the same God that Muslims believe in - Lord Shri Indra delights in the consumption of the elixir known as Soma which is in itself a God as well ... this verse is not showing monotheistic tendencies since the verse itself is followed by a few verses dedicated to the Gods known as the Lords Shri Ashvins]

From where are you getting your poorly researched translations?

"Praise him would matchless and alone" (Rigveda, Book 6, Hymn 45, Verse 16)*

Um. This one is even more incorrect. The verse in question should be as follows:

6.045.16a yá éka ít tám u ṣṭuhi
6.045.16b kr̥ṣṭīnã́ṃ vícarṣaṇiḥ
6.045.16c pátir jajñé vŕ̥ṣakratuḥ

This is Sukta 45 from Mandala 6, "composed" by Rishi Shamyu Bārhaspatya dedicated to Lord Shri Indra, again. The correct translation is the one that follows:

"Praise that God Lord Shri Indra who alone has been born the supervisor (of all), the
lord of men, the giver of rain." [two hymns after this one is dedicated to the God Lord Shri Agni - these verses you are offering do not show monotheism - a little more research should help you out]

 

[nithyastha]

It seems the Hindu scriptures are more expansive than I realized. The reason I was interested in the first place to learn more about them is because of the scientific proofs they contain. That's one of the main reasons I accepted Quran... Scientific proofs, math formulas, word patterns and most importantly, it's free of contradictions. I have a feeling some Hindu scriptures also come from the same creator. I have a feeling it's all one truth but humans have manipulated the message in all religions. But the praying to statues makes no sense to me, no disrespect, but it doesn't. That's why I'm trying to learn more and see if there's a connection and where it originates from.

Hinduism is the Most Scientific Religion, We Have Reason for Every thing You want to Know About Everything Life, Death and Beyond and , we can Authenticaly teach you and give Greatest Spiritual Experience Beyond Words, So I Welcome You To a New World Of Possibilities,which is not Only Philosophic But Also Experiential which can Give u The Ultimate experience.

 

[Aamer]

I don't know enough about your scripture to know the Sanskrit. I'm only reading English translations. I'm not here to start a fight. I'm looking for clarity on where the statues come from. Is there something in the scripture or is it a man made form of worship?

 

[Vinayaka]

So I've read the Old Testament, New Testament and Quran, and I'm just now starting to dig into the Hindu scriptures. I'm starting to think it's one message from one God, but some of the scriptures may have been altered. Anyway, my question to hindus is this. I haven't yet found any verse in your scriptures encouraging, condoning or allowing idol worship. I have, however, seen verses condemning it. This is surprising for me because I am Indian. I have always associated Hindu religion to idol worship. But the scriptures don't seem to match the current practice so far from what I have seen. Are there verses in the scriptures which encourage the worship of idols that exist today? Can you please show me where they are? And if you're Hindu, I'd love to get your perspective on worshiping statues, etc. Do you believe they have the power to help you? Do you participate in it? I have many Hindu friends but they just follow the herd, like most members of every other religion. I'd like to hear from hindus who have actually studied and learned. Thanks.

-I read the whole thread and you seem to be sincere, unlike some Muslims who only discuss Hinduism in a negative light. So thank you for that.
- We have many contradictions in scripture, mainly because we have so many different scriptures, originating at different times, the evolution of language, translations, and more. Hindu scholars themselves are great at debating all this. I'm not sure, but in words alone, our scriptures are probably 100 times the length of each Abrahamic scripture. So many people can go and find a line or two that seems to suggest any point of view they themselves want to find support for.
- We don't worship idols. The idol is like a telephone line connecting two communicators, God, and the individual.
- I go to temples a lot, and yes, I participate in drawing energy from the ethers via a murthy. But the ability to see this takes a certain level of faith, or mysticism, if you like. Many people can't do it.

 

[Poeticus]

I don't know enough about your scripture to know the Sanskrit. I'm only reading English translations. I'm not here to start a fight. I'm looking for clarity on where the statues come from. Is there something in the scripture or is it a man made form of worship?

Archa Dharma is Murti Puja. It isn't "idol-worship" in the Abrahamic Sense. Idols in the Abrahamic Sense are not representations of God but Gods themselves.

Archa in Murti Puja is not God him/herself, but a representation of God - this thought is found in many Vaishnava religions of the Hindu conglomeration.

And, I wasn't trying to pick a fight - I was simply trying to show you the fallacies of your translations about monotheism in the Shri Rig Veda.

And, I wanted to point out that not all Hindus agree with one another nor believe in the same concept of God and/or Gods. More importantly, Hindus do not believe, I can safely conclude, in the same god as that of the Muslims. The difference is metaphysical, philosophical, scriptural, and philological.

I appreciate your concern by making this thread, but your approach was not clear enough, in my opinion. Anyways, if you have any questions, please always feel free to post a thread in the HinduDIR instead - your concerns will be answered quicker and their won't be endless debating that will go against the concerns of the OP.

Peace Be With You

 

[nithyastha]

I don't know enough about your scripture to know the Sanskrit. I'm only reading English translations. I'm not here to start a fight. I'm looking for clarity on where the statues come from. Is there something in the scripture or is it a man made form of worship?

We Respect u Don't Want to fight with u, because u r a sincere seeker. Seeking itself is a great quality. Many of the Hindu Scriptures can be learnt in english translation itself.

There are Scriptures for Deity Worship, Each Deity There is a Science For Making Any Deity. their Dimention's and the Place in the Temple. There are Many great Temples In India Which are Bigger than Any Palace in the World.

If Formless God is Like River , Deities are like Cannals Which Brings Water to ur Agriculture fields.

Deities Bring Gods More Closer to You, and Easy to Relate to the Human Mind.

 

[Jainarayan]

Archa in Murti Puja is not God him/herself, but a representation of God - this thought is found in many Vaishnava religions of the Hindu conglomeration.

^ This.

"For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied." Bhagavad Gita 12.5

Interpretation: Bhagavad Gita As It Is, 12: Devotional Service, Text 5.

Furthermore, the word murthi has been mistranslated from its original meaning of 'form' into 'idol'.