His Eminence, The Pope.

[pearl]

Find a Catholic to argue your Catholic stuff with. I'm not it.

I'm not arguing, simply pointing to your lack of knowledge where the Catholic Church is concerned.

I don't care. Your argument is not with me. It's with the Catholic who made all the statements I posted here.

So you're simply passing on gossip from one who is as ill informed as yourself.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

LOL! Do you know anything about Catholicism? Really?

Here are some statements from a Catholic on another discussion group. This is what Catholics believe. Enjoy:

God has appointed the pope to be His Vicar here on earth. When we reject the pope, we reject Jesus, and when we reject Jesus, we reject God.
The pope is not God but stands in for God.
Jesus is speaking to His apostles here, the first bishops of the Catholic Church. He is also speaking to Peter, the first pope. If someone rejects them it's the same as rejecting Jesus.
...and the dogmatic encyclical Humanae Vitae, issued by Pope Paul VI in 1968, says no birth control. And that goes for everyone in the human race, not just Catholics.
According to Our Lady of Fatima, when the pope consecrates Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in union with all the bishops of the world, Russia will be converted and the world will enjoy a prolonged period of peace.
The pope is a sinner like you and me. But the Holy Spirit makes the pope an infallible teacher on matters of faith and morals.
Part of loving God with all of one's soul, strength, and mind is belonging to the Church God founded and obeying the pope God appointed.
Proclaiming that the pope is Christ's vicar in no way detracts from Christ's supremecy. The pope is Christ's VICAR, His stand-in, His vice president, His executive officer so to speak.
You disobey God if you reject the pope.
The Church is not a loose fellowship of all believers. It is the visible organization founded by Christ, with a pope, bishops, priests, monks, and nuns. In the New Testament, from Acts through Revelation, this is unmistakeably clear. Defiance of God, you say? Whenever anyone defies the Church they are defy God.
That's why we need to humbly submit ourselves to the pope and the Church.
...we need to keep in mind that believing in Jesus means believing in everything He taught, including the Church He founded and the pope He appointed.
The Church speaks for God.
Catholic assertions are the assertions of Jesus Christ.
To reject the pope is to reject God.
Confession, Communion, prayers to Mary and other saints, and obedience to the pope do lead to sanctity.
Believing on Jesus includes believing in the Church He founded and the Pope He appointed.
Q. Who has authority over the baptized?
A. The bishops and priests of the Catholic Church, especially the bishop of Rome, the pope, the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Q. What does God do with those who wittingly and knowingly reject the authority figures He has set up?
A. He sends them to Hell forever.
O dearest Holy Mother Mary, I pray that the next pope will crack down on liberal priests and seninarians, and priests and seminarians with homosexual tendencies, so that our children will be safe. I also pray for the return of all fallen-away Catholics, and the conversion of every man, woman, and child in the planet to Catholicism. Amen.

Well, I had to go through RCIA to be Baptized and Confirmed so I guess I know something about it. I know enough about it to see that whoever you got this mess from doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[Furchizedek]

I'm not arguing, simply pointing to your lack of knowledge where the Catholic Church is concerned.

No you're not, you're arguing with me, the messenger. You're trying to browbeat me with your Catholicism. I'm not having it. I have no lack of knowledge where the Catholic church is concerned. I've got my Catholic facts learned real good, to paraphrase a line from Bruce Springsteen.

So you're simply passing on gossip from one who is as ill informed as yourself.

Devious, and ad hominem, once more. I am not ill informed about the Catholic church and you're not going to browbeat me. What I have posted are exact quotes of what a Catholic on another group has said. I'm sorry if you don't like it. It's not gossip. It's dishonest of you to even throw that out there. But perhaps you don't know what gossip is. If I quote President Trump, "Just grab 'em by the *****," is that gossip to you?

Do you pray to Mary, Jesus' dead mother? Jesus says not to do that. Do you pray to a dead guy named Tony to help you find lost junk? Jesus says not to do that:

"But thou, WHEN thou prayest, ...pray to thy Father." (Matthew 6:6)

Here's some Catholic superstition from my files:

He said:
"Then why do I always find my keys? Yesterday St. Anthony helped me find my checkbook. A couple of weeks ago he helped me find a missing flip-flop. St. Anthony helps me find keys, flip-flops, and checkbooks."

One wonders how "St. Anthony" hears people asking for help finding their misplaced flip flops, and how "St. Anthony" enters the information back into the Catholic mind.

You cannot obey Jesus and be a good Catholic. You can't serve two masters, your pope-church and Jesus. And if you cannot obey Jesus, Jesus says that means you don't love him.

"If a man love me, he will keep my words."(John 14:23)
"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings." (John 14:24)

No, I'm never going back to Catholicism. Real Christians don't pray to dead human beings or call priests, "Father."

Let me leave you with this Catholic prayer which Jesus forbids:

"Hail Holy Queen, mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning, and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy upon us, and, after this our exile, show unto us the blessed Fruit of the womb, Jesus. O clement, o loving, o sweet Virgin Mary. Prayer for us, o mother of God, that we might become worthy of the promises of Christ."

"But thou, WHEN thou prayest, ...pray to thy Father." (Matthew 6:6)

 

[Furchizedek]

Well, I had to go through RCIA to be Baptized and Confirmed

And RCIA stands for "Roman Catholic Indoctrination for Adults" right? You shouldn't use abbreviations that are not common knowledge unless you explain them usually at the first usage. But you probably think that the universe revolves around the Catholic church and so everyone should know what "RCIA" stands for, right?

so I guess I know something about it. I know enough about it to see that whoever you got this mess from doesn't know what they're talking about.

I can assure you that this person knows exactly what he's talking about and he would probably consider you to be a lukewarm, inexperienced, know-nothing Catholic. I think he'd run circles around you. In fact, he's such a good Catholic he even has the Catholic OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder, see how that's done?) disease called Scrupulosity. It's actually a badge of honor, he extols "saints" who had it, telling how they went to confession every day!

Speaking to another Catholic in that forum who was not as zealous as he was, he said:

Actually, it is your place, and your duty, to help and encourage non-Catholics to convert. We have the truth; they have partial truths at best. We have the light; they have the darkness. We have salvation waiting for us, if we remain faithful; they have Hell awaiting them.

Here's some more from your stablemate to give you something to read:

"I will forever be dependent on the [Catholic] Church my mother. I go along in obedience. The Catholic Church speaks for God. The [Catholic] Church ordered heretics tortured and burned at the stake because the heretics opposed the [Catholic] Church's message of love and peace. Executing someone per God's commandment is not murder. Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. The only way we know that the Bible is the word of God is that the teaching authority of the Catholic Church says so. Oh, the errors we make when we prefer our own opinions to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Jesus sends thousands and thousands of unrepentant adulterers to Hell every day, including all the divorced and remarried people, including those who used contraception. [Regarding burning people at the stake as his sect used to do:] "But Jesus DOES ... much worse." How long does it take to burn a heretic at the stake until the heretic dies? An hour, two hours maybe? How long does Jesus burn unrepentant heretics in Hell? For all eternity. Wait'll you see Jesus in action on Judgment Day. Only one mortal sin is enough to send a soul to Hell forever. God's forgiveness is not blanket or universal. Rejection of the Catholic Church is the same as rejecting Christ Himself. What is a soldier, what is an executioner, what is a guard in a prison, if not the instrument of God's punishment? If we want to be saved we must confess our sins to a validly ordained Catholic priest. The world hates the Catholic Church because the world hates Christ. The priests who molest children and teenagers are the priests with Protestant tendencies. God had Jesus crucified to show man how horrible sin is. We should all say the rosary every day. You don't understand the scriptures because you do not have the light of Catholic faith. Anyone who does not believe in the virgin birth of Christ does not believe in Christ. Infant Baptism, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, devotion to Mary, and prayers to the saints are all in the Bible. The gospel is the whole package of Jesus' teaching, including Holy Eucharist, the founding of the Church, the divinity of Christ, devotion to the Blessed Mother, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, and indulgences. Jesus called His diciples to believe in the Catholic Church. It's the truth. I've studied this stuff for years. The [Roman Catholic Church] is above all others. Membership in the Church is only one of many things required for salvation. Catholics, just like Protestants, can go to God in prayer any time they wish. But for a mortal sin to be forgiven, we must go to a priest. It is an undisputable fact that Jesus founded the Catholic Church, and that the Church of the New Testament had a pope, bishops, priests, deacons, nuns, the Mass, the Eucharist, Confession, prayers to the saints, and Purgatory. Those who leave the Catholic Church to embrace other religions won't go to Purgatory. They will go to Hell. Jesus founded the Catholic Church, [and] gave it infallible teaching authority Once we are cut off from the papacy, we wither and die. How do we know the Bible is the inspired word of God? Only because the Catholic Church says so. The priest [has] two godlike powers that God gives him---one, he can forgive sins, and two, he can change bread and wine into Jesus' Body and Blood. Protestants can go to Heaven, if they give up their false beliefs and convert to Catholicism. The Catholic Church is mentioned all throughout the New Testament. The Kingdom of God is the Catholic Church. By rejecting the Catholic Church you are committing the sin of heresy. It is God's will that all should come into the Catholic Church. In the New Covenant God wants people to confess their mortal sins to a [validly ordained Catholic] priest. Without the interpretations of the Catholic Church, the Bible is a hodgepodge of real and apparent contradictions that can be made to say anything anybody wants it to say. The Bible is meant to be interpreted by the Catholic Church. It's not possible for Catholic doctrine to be contaminated. Hell, Purgatory, and Limbo are creations of God. Jesus died so we could have the grace to repent and go to Confession. How angry the false religionists become, when a Catholic tells the truth. All is darkness outside the Catholic Church. The Catholic religion, was written by God. Only Catholics are true Christians---the rest are either heretics or schismatics. That's why we need to humbly submit ourselves to the pope and the Church. Religion tells us the truth about ourselves. We are dirty sinners and are in need of a Savior. Devotion to Mary is necessary for salvation. Devotion to Mary is mandatory. Prayers to Mary are mandatory for salvation. Mary is queen of Heaven and sovereign mistress of the angels for one reason and one reason only: God appointed her to that office. I can prove that Mary is the Queen of Heaven. The Catholic Church says so, and the Church is infallible about things like this. The Bible came from the Church. The Church came from Jesus. Jesus came from Mary. Everything we have we got through Mary. Mary is queen of the universe. I recommend that people pray to Mary or one of the saints. Let the prayer life have some variety.

 

[metis]

Are you Catholic? I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic grade school for 6 years. I know what they believe, and while this guy might seem extreme to you, I'm pretty sure it's basically right as far as they're concerned. Print out that bit and take it to a priest and ask him.

I was not brought up Catholic but took two Catholic theology classes during my undergrad years, eventually converted to Catholicism when 30, taught the RCIA program to adults for 14 years, but eventually left the church when I turned 50. Currently I am unaffiliated and probably will remain so.

Again, some of what you posted is simply not true or is misleading, but I really don't have the time to go through all of those points, especially since you made so many of them.

Anyone who is seriously interested can access the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" here and see for themselves: Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

[metis]

And RCIA stands for "Roman Catholic Indoctrination for Adults" right?

How about this: Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, which can be found here: Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults - Wikipedia

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And RCIA stands for "Roman Catholic Indoctrination for Adults" right? You shouldn't use abbreviations that are not common knowledge unless you explain them usually at the first usage. But you probably think that the universe revolves around the Catholic church and so everyone should know what "RCIA" stands for, right?

Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. You're on the Internet, use it.

 

[pearl]

No you're not, you're arguing with me, the messenger. You're trying to browbeat me with your Catholicism.

You are unable to distinguish between what is official Catholic teaching from someone's personal opinion and piety, and look to rad trads to support your anti-Catholic rant. In an earlier post 'metis' correctly pointed out that you have no knowledge of Catholic theology and the development of doctrine being, as you are, limited by a 6th grade Catholic education.

 

[savagewind]

I think there might be a difference between what the laity needs to know to be considered Catholic and what the priests and such need to know to be what they are.

The Catholic hierarchy is very similar to what I know which is the hierarchy of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. The things that person is said to have said on another forum match pretty well what the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to believe about their head of the congregations. They're very much the same. Catholics are a lot fancier, though.

 

[metis]

I can assure you that this person knows exactly what he's talking about and he would probably consider you to be a lukewarm, inexperienced, know-nothing Catholic. I think he'd run circles around you. In fact, he's such a good Catholic he even has the Catholic OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder, see how that's done?) disease called Scrupulosity.

A lot of people say a lot of things that are wrong or misleading, and that includes some Catholics. So, one needs to use official sources, such as the Catechism.

 

[metis]

I mean, I know Francis is certainly more progressive, but still, their underlying philosophy is that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic church, as far as I know.

That is false, so again let me recommend you check the Catechism.

 

[savagewind]

That is false, so again let me recommend you check the Catechism.

It's not so easy to "check the Catechism". It's a download or to buy a book. And, which book? Maybe the library here has one.

Just because an organization never says, "you must be one of us to be saved" doesn't mean it isn't what they teach. Reading between the lines if it says you much believe our A, B, and C, to be saved is not so different than saying ours is the way to salvation. You know that! When will people who know it ever going to admit it?

 

[metis]

It's not so easy to "check the Catechism". It's a download or to buy a book. And, which book?

It's on-line, and I provided a link to it on post #105.

Reading between the lines if it says you much believe our A, B, and C, to be saved is not so different than saying ours is the way to salvation. You know that! When will people who know it ever going to admit it?

Maybe check it our for yourself with that link.

 

[pearl]

Just because an organization never says, "you must be one of us to be saved" doesn't mean it isn't what they teach.

Concretely, it will be in the sincere practice of what is Good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God´s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize him as their Saviour.
excerpt from 'dialogue and proclamation'

 

[savagewind]

It's on-line, and I provided a link to it on post #105.

Maybe check it our for yourself with that link.

I did do that, but it is a download. It didn't appear like everything else I search online for.

 

[savagewind]

I was not brought up Catholic but took two Catholic theology classes during my undergrad years, eventually converted to Catholicism when 30, taught the RCIA program to adults for 14 years, but eventually left the church when I turned 50. Currently I am unaffiliated and probably will remain so.

Again, some of what you posted is simply not true or is misleading, but I really don't have the time to go through all of those points, especially since you made so many of them.

Anyone who is seriously interested can access the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" here and see for themselves: Catechism of the Catholic Church

OK. I got it. Thank you. It is long. If it doesn't put me to sleep, I'll read it all. Then, if there is nothing to critique, I won't.

 

[savagewind]

This will be annoying. I know. But, I can't think of a better way. (I can't keep the page up and the post active - I mean, I won't)

"God's plan depend essentially on catechesis". I understand that catechesis means baptism (into the church) or confirmation (of the church). I will listen to arguments about that.

 

[savagewind]

"The second part of the Catechism explains how God's salvation, accomplished once for all through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is made present in the sacred actions of the Church's liturgy , especially in the seven sacraments"

God's salvation is made present in the liturgy.

I do know that you know how to read between the lines. Am I wrong?

 

[metis]

"The second part of the Catechism explains how God's salvation, accomplished once for all through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is made present in the sacred actions of the Church's liturgy , especially in the seven sacraments"

God's salvation is made present in the liturgy.

I do know that you know how to read between the lines. Am I wrong?

A ritual by itself doesn't insure "salvation", so what's far more important is whether they believe in God and Jesus, their intent, and whether they live in the gospel.


BTW, just to be clear, the Church teaches that if one has adequate exposure to understanding the Church, and yet rejects it, they will not likely be "saved" according to Church dogma. Because of this, if this were to be correct, I cannot be "saved" as I am not Catholic, nor do I take the sacraments, nor do I have any intention of converting. However, PF has said some things that indicates to me that he quite possibly doesn't buy into that teaching either.

 

[savagewind]

A ritual by itself doesn't insure "salvation", so what's far more important is whether they believe in God and Jesus, their intent, and whether they live in the gospel.

Yes, but I am proving that the words are saying that THEY are the way. I am talking about the Church's words and proof that someone can definitely read that they say, "the Church is the way". OK?