Historical Accuracy in Scripture

[metis]

I think that is a good question. I think the lessons are much more important than what actually happened.

Exactly, imo. Thus, elevating the Bible to idolatry proportions actually reduces the many messages for us inside of it where our most intense focus should really be.

 

[metis]

The Bible is not the only scripture.

Amen.

 

[Jainarayan]

At issue with Hebrew scripture is the fact that it purports to be history and, therefore, more than exegesis.

So let me ask you: Does history matter?

Out of curiosity, how do most Jews view it? As history and literal, or metaphors and allegories, lessons? For example, some Hindus take the stories literally, others don't, some are in between (like me) who think the are stories based in some historicity. I'm also curious how Jews view or understand the passages that portray God as angry, vengeful, jealous. To my knowledge modern Jews view God as a loving and protective father, as do most Christians (except the Bible literalists and evangelicals).

 

[Jainarayan]

Does it matter if if the stories in religious scripture actually took place?

What is more important in scripture, historical accuracy or the lessons that can be learned from it?

Discuss.

I think there is some historicity in the Mahābhārata, Rāmāyana, and purānas but are largely morality and other lessons, teaching aids. I think what can be learned is more important than their historicity. An Eastern Orthodox priest I knew (he was my parish priest when I was Eastern Orthodox) used to say it isn't important if Adam and Eve existed, if their story was literal, and how we got here. What is important is that we are here. So, I think the lessons are more important, however we got them ... they had to come from some basis.

 

[Eli G]

Eh? That we don’t know the complete history of the region is not an argument that the bible is historically accurate, obviously. Whereas there are plenty of reasons to doubt the historical accuracy of the bible, the flood story and the Exodus story being perhaps the two best known examples. It is not only my opinion. It is the consensus of science and scholarship.
...

I don't know what you, enemies of the Bible, are up to... but the reality that you seem to ignore is the following:

Without the Bible, much of the human history we know today would have still remained a mystery to the whole world.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

From what I have seen the Jehovah's Witnesses are the opposite of well educated. They are well indoctrinated. That is not the same thing at all.

I've had some come to my house before in an attempt to convert me, and I confused them by asking them questions about the Bible that they clearly weren't prepared for or perhaps weren't trained to answer. This happened several times, and now they no longer come to my door. So, I'd say they're indoctrinated, but not well indoctrinated in terms of truly understanding what they're preaching. In my experience with JWs, they didn't know the Bible very well beyond the scriptures they were taught and the beliefs they were taught. None of them did well when they had to deviate from the script.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've had some come to my house before in an attempt to convert me, and I confused them by asking them questions about the Bible that they clearly weren't prepared for or perhaps weren't trained to answer. This happened several times, and now they no longer come to my door. So, I'd say they're indoctrinated, but not well indoctrinated in terms of truly understanding what they're preaching. In my experience with JWs, they didn't know the Bible very well beyond the scriptures they were taught and the beliefs they were taught. None of them did well when they had to deviate from the script.

Yes, when I say "indoctrinated" I mean that hey all believe the clearly false claims of their religion even though they do not understand them. Look at our friend here. He has made claims only. He has not offered any evidence.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Does it matter if if the stories in religious scripture actually took place?

What is more important in scripture, historical accuracy or the lessons that can be learned from it?

Discuss.

I don't see why the historical accuracy or lack of it should matter. It is the lessons that are important.

As a Christian, it is my understanding that the key to my salvation isn't a history quiz.

 

[Eli G]

As a Christian and a lover of truth, I would never take Scripture or even Jesus seriously if events were presented to me as real that are just made up stories.

The Bible speaks of the Flood as a historical fact, and presents Adam and Eve as real people; but not only that, but Jesus confirms both as historical truths.

If any "Christian" comes to tell me that Adam and Eve did not exist or that the Flood did not really happen... that is not a true Christian, but a phony ... probably one of those posers who are not what they say they are.

Psal. 26:4 I do not associate with deceitful men,
And I avoid those who hide what they are.
5 I hate the company of evil men,
And I refuse to associate with the wicked.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Does it matter if if the stories in religious scripture actually took place?

What is more important in scripture, historical accuracy or the lessons that can be learned from it?

Discuss.

Judaism does not depend on the stories being historical. Basically these stories tell me who I am as a Jew. The Torah binds me to other Jews and to God. It doesn't need to be 100% historical or without errors. It is the sacred text of my people, and that's great all by itself.

I suspect though, that i.e. it would be very difficult for a christian to say the same thing. I think Christianity is absolutely dependent on the crucifixion and resurrection to have taken place in real time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As a Christian and a lover of truth, I would never take Scripture or even Jesus seriously if events were presented to me as real that are just made up stories.

The Bible speaks of the Flood as a historical fact, and presents Adam and Eve as real people; but not only that, but Jesus confirms both as historical truths.

If any "Christian" comes to tell me that Adam and Eve did not exist or that the Flood did not really happen... that is not a true Christian, but a phony ... probably one of those posers who are not what they say they are.

Psal. 26:4 I do not associate with deceitful men,
And I avoid those who hide what they are.
5 I hate the company of evil men,
And I refuse to associate with the wicked.

Then you are claiming that either the Bible cannot be read literally or that God is a liar. Which one is it? All of the evidence tells us that there was no Flood. God would have had to have lied by planting endless false evidence for the Flood to be true. If God is not a liar then Genesis cannot be read literally.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't see why the historical accuracy or lack of it should matter. It is the lessons that are important.

As a Christian, it is my understanding that the key to my salvation isn't a history quiz.

I ask this with genuine curiosity. Is your Christian faith not dependent on Jesus literally dying for you sins and rising from the grave?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Judaism does not depend on the stories being historical. Basically these stories tell me who I am as a Jew. The Torah binds me to other Jews and to God. It doesn't need to be 100% historical or without errors. It is the sacred text of my people, and that's great all by itself.

I suspect though, that i.e. it would be very difficult for a christian to say the same thing. I think Christianity is absolutely dependent on the crucifixion and resurrection to have taken place in real time.

It may be possible for Christians to argue for a "Spiritual Resurrection". All of Paul's sightings were visions. He never claimed a bodily resurrection as far as I can see.

 

[Eli G]

Judaism does not depend on the stories being historical. ...

That's as fake as a 6 dollar bill.

If there was not Moses, nor Jews Kings, nor Abraham, nor ................... there is not any Judaism.

 

[Valjean]

It depends on the type of scripture. If, say, the basis for the claim of a national homeland rests on a scriptural record about God physically guiding the ancestors to the promised land through miraculous events, and such claims lead to thousand years long wars around the said homeland then it may matter.

Scripture has also been widely used as justification for all kinds of atrocities, from slavery, to genocides and as a basis for legal prohibitions and restrictions of all kinds. In some countries their entire legal code is based in scripture.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That's as fake as a 6 dollar bill.

If there was not Moses, nor Jews Kings, nor Abraham, nor ................... there is not any Judaism.

That is not true Eli. There are four different movements in Judaism, and they each approach this somewhat differently. It is really not unusual, for example, to find a Reform Jew who doesn't believe the Torah is accurate, but who is still a religious Jew who attends Synagogue regularly, sings praises, says prayers, etc. Indeed, I have known atheists who practice Judaism. I have an Orthodox friend who is an atheist. It happens.

 

[Valjean]

I think that is a good question. I think the lessons are much more important than what actually happened.

I find them both ambiguous and morally questionable, if not downright repugnant.

 

[Eli G]

That is not true Eli. There are four different movements in Judaism, and they each approach this somewhat differently. It is really not unusual, for example, to find a Reform Jew who doesn't believe the Torah is accurate, but who is still a religious Jew who attends Synagogue regularly, sings praises, says prayers, etc. Indeed, I have known atheists who practice Judaism. I have an Orthodox friend who is an atheist. It happens.

Yeap, sure, there are many Judaisms today ... there are even Christian Judaisms, LOL.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I ask this with genuine curiosity. Is your Christian faith not dependent on Jesus literally dying for you sins and rising from the grave?

Acceptance of Christ as my savior is all He mentioned that was important.

 

[Valjean]

I think that is a good question. I think the lessons are much more important than what actually happened.

All well and good when The Bible is treated like Æsop's fables, but when literal belief is insisted on or mandated, as they so frequently are, there's a problem