Historical Accuracy of the Bible

[d.n.irvin]

If you believe in God and you believe in the Bible as being the inspired word of God, as a Christian - a follower of Christ (Christ believed in the Old Testament) I have no choice to believe the Bible as historical truth. Now for the Christian the fact that God says something is enough proof for him, but understanding some of us may not be Christians, I still stand on the platform that truth can withstand investigation.

 

[d.n.irvin]

In the Bible, God says there would be a rapid increase in knowledge after the anti-typical day of atonement (cleansing of the sanctuary 1844). And think about everything we have today- it all came about in the last 100 years or so. And before I go any further I want to mention the investigation of biblical prophesy as a means to help believers and skeptics alike in examining the Bible as being historically accurate.

 

[Buttercup]

And before I go any further I want to mention the investigation of biblical prophesy as a means to help believers and skeptics alike in examining the Bible as being historically accurate.

Examples please? I enjoy talking about prophesy.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Let me share a quote that better conveys my beliefs on some points biblical historical accuracy:

In other words, the human phase of the divine-human communication system will be beset with occasional discrepancies—simply because of human finiteness. Stephen’s eloquent sermon (Acts 7) contains an incidental reference to the number (75) of Jacob’s family who went into Egypt to live with Joseph. However, the Genesis reference (46:27) states that 70 of Jacob’s family went into Egypt. What shall we make of this difference? If we believe that Genesis is the only historical source that Jews in the first century had for this information, then we simply understand that the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Prophecy) guided Stephen in reciting the big picture, but did not intervene on details. Prophets do not necessarily become “authorities” on historical data. Their inspirational value lies in their messages, not in some of the details that are incidental to the big picture.

Hermeneutics/2 chapter 33 Possible Discrepancies pp.3

Now, ask me do I believe in the Flood? the answer is yes. And I'll give you bibilical and historical and scientific proof.

 

[d.n.irvin]

OK lets take a look at Daniel and Revelation, two books that should be studied together. are you familiar with Nebuchadnezzar's Dream

 

[Buttercup]

Let me share a quote that better conveys my beliefs on some points biblical historical accuracy:
Hermeneutics/2 chapter 33 Possible Discrepancies pp.3

Now, ask me do I believe in Flood? the answer is yes. And I'll give you bibilical and historical and scientific proof.

Ok, I'll look forward to it. And yes, I am familiar with King Nebbie's dream.

I'll be back tomorrow, thanks.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Neb's dream is equivocal proof of Bible historical accuracy.
Daniel 2:1-49 In this dream of the multi-mineral image, God outlined the rise and fall of the empires that would have a direct influence on His people.
The first thing the king saw was a great image made of the following mineral elements:
1. The head was of gold.
2. The breast and arms were of silver.
3. The belly and thighs were of brass.
4. The legs were of iron.
5. The feet of iron and clay.
Next, the king saw a stone that had been cut without hands

The king was regarded as the head of the state. This is why Nebuchadnezzar represented Babylon (1. The head of gold.), the empire that began the prophecy. Neo-Babylon ruled the world from 612-539 B.C. as one of the mightiest empires of antiquity--one that could aptly be described as the head of gold. Notice that the prophecy begins with Daniel's time.

Succeeding kingdoms, inferior to Babylon, would rule in their turn. Just as silver is inferior to gold, so the kingdom that followed Babylon enjoyed diminished glory. Led by Cyrus in 539 B.C., the Medo-Persian empire conquered Babylon and reduced it to ruins. (2. The breast and arms were of silver).The Medes and Persians were the ruling world power from 539-331 B.C. During their reign, all taxes had to be paid in silver.

Side Note:More historical accuracy

The advent of the army of Cyrus before the walls of Babylon was to the Jews a sign that their deliverance from captivity was drawing nigh. More than a century before the birth of Cyrus, Inspiration had mentioned him by name, and had caused a record to be made of the actual work he should do in taking the city of Babylon unawares, and in preparing the way for the release of the children of the captivity. Through Isaiah the word had been spoken:
"Thus saith the Lord to His anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; . . . to open before him the two-leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: and I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel." Isaiah 45:1-3.

Return of the Exiles chapter 45 page 551 pp.1,2
I'll finish 3-5 tomorrow

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The thread is the historical accuracy of the Bible. Historical statements mentioning certain towns, governors, kings, world rulers, countries, tribes, etc. have been found to be correct especially in the last several decades as archeologists have uncovered ancient cities and artifacts that only shed more light on the historical accuracy of the Bible.

This statement is, either, not very bright or not very honest. The argument, in brief, goes something like ...

• The Exodus/Conquest narratives depicts the Israelites' exodus from Egypt and conquest of Canaan.
• Archaeology has verified the existence of the Israelites, Egypt, and Canaan.
• Therefore, archaeology proves the "historical accuracy" of the Bible.

The Tanakh is a tapestry, weaving together myth, folklore, story, poetry, and politics. No such tome could possibly be anything other than peppered with historical fact and the remnant of fact. None of this suffices to elevate the text to the status of accurate history. Again, Kansas is real - Munchkins are not.

 

[d.n.irvin]

3. The belly and thighs were of brass.
4. The legs were of iron.
5. The feet of iron and clay.
Next, the king saw a stone that had been cut without hands

Daniel 2:39-
(3. The belly and thighs were of brass)The brass kingdom of Greece came into power when Alexander the Great conquered the Medes and Persians at the battle of Arbela in 331 B.C., and Greece remained in power until about 168 B.C. Greek soldiers were called "brazen coated" because their armor was all bronze. Notice how each succeeding mineral depicted in the image is less valuable, yet more enduring than the one before it.

The iron monarchy of Rome conquered the Greeks in 168 B.C. and enjoyed world supremacy until Rome was captured by the Ostrogoths in A.D. 476.( 4. The legs were of iron.)Rome is the kingdom that dominated the world when Jesus Christ was born.

Notice how Daniel foretold a thousand years of world history with unerring accuracy. The rise and fall of these four world empires--Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome-are clearly foretold in the Bible and proved by the history books.

When the Roman Empire began to crumble in A.D. 476, it was not overtaken by another world power. Instead, barbarian tribes conquered the Roman Empire and divided it--just as Daniel prophesied. (5. The feet of iron and clay.)Ten of these tribes evolved into modern Europe. They were the Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Franks, Vandals, Alemannians, Sueves, Anglo-Saxons, Heruls, Lombards, and Burgundians. Seven of them still exist today in Europe. For example, the Anglo-Saxons became the English, the Franks became the French, the Alemannians became the Germans, and the Lombards became the Italians.

Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Side Note:More historical accuracy

Through marriage, alliances, and treaties, men have vainly attempted to reunite the European continent. All throughout history, leaders such as Charlemagne, Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm, Mussolini, and Hitler have fought to build a new European empire; but these words of Scripture have stopped every single would-be world ruler. Revelation 13 tells us there will be another attempt to establish a universal religion, but Daniel's prophecy clearly states that the world will remain politically divided for the rest of Earth's history.

Daniel 2:43
Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

The stone that was cut without human hands represents God's kingdom. It will not be a conglomeration of earthly kingdoms, but a total replacement (Revelation 21:1). The Scriptures declare that when Jesus Christ returns to earth, He will completely consume all the kingdoms of earth and establish an everlasting kingdom (Daniel 2:44).

The rise and fall of empires may appear as if happening by the will of men, but Daniel's prayer of praise clearly reveals the essence of divine intervention. Nothing happens that God is not already aware of and has not allowed. Sometimes we may not understand what is happening in our world today or why, but it is comforting to know that God is still sovereign.

This is just one Bible prophesy that shows the historical accuracy of scripture. Can anyone disagree with the accuracy here?

Bible Universe, The Millennial Man

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is just one Bible prophesy that shows the historical accuracy of scripture. Can anyone disagree with the accuracy here?

For one thing, the Greek civilization (which you refer to as "the kingdom of bronze" that will rule over the whole Earth) was not a single kingdom, but many separate small nations and city-states. It also did not rule over the entire Earth.

That's the only factual problem I can think of off the top of my head. Since the prophecy itself is fairly vague and easy to apply as one sees fit, it's hard to point out things that are wrong with it.

 

[d.n.irvin]

With all due respect Runt, how do you know what you are studying to be true? What is your litmus test for the investigation of truth or what is perceived as truth?

 

[d.n.irvin]

That's the only factual problem I can think of off the top of my head. Since the prophecy itself is fairly vague and easy to apply as one sees fit, it's hard to point out things that are wrong with it.

You've got to be kidding

 

[joeboonda]

What does this prove? Nothing. That they existed -- that's it.

Right, it simply proves that the cities, kings, etc. mentioned in the Bible did indeed exist hence the historical accuracy of the Bible.

 

[Runt]

With all due respect Runt, how do you know what you are studying to be true? What is your litmus test for the investigation of truth or what is perceived as truth?

I believe what I'm studying in regards to the historical accuracy of the Bible to be true because the arguments are laid out in a rational manner with substantial evidence to support them. I can't say the same of the opposition.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You've got to be kidding

No, I'm not.

It's fairly easy to shoehorn the historical record around predictions like "there will be another kingdom, not as great as this one, which will be defeated by an enemy", but IMO, so-called "prophesy" usually comes down to selective picking-and-choosing from history.

Even in your example, you cite Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome as some sort of logical sequence, however:

- At the time this prophesy was supposedly written, Egypt was still a major world power. It's debatable whether Bablyon could be considered the greatest empire of the time.
- Hellenistic Greece splintered into four major parts in 281 BC, long before Rome became established, which leaves a century-long gap in your progression.
- Rome didn't crush Greek civilization, but incorporated and assimilated it.
- Arguably, with the rise of the EU, Europe is more "cleaved together" than it ever was in Greek or Roman times.
- the explanation of your prophesy shifts focus from Persia to Europe for some reason you have not given.

You have assumed that the prophecy is true, then looked for facts to fit it.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Runt, examples please.




Penguin, your pointing out very minor details and missing the big picture (my post speaks for itself) which is - God has the 'whole world in his hands'.
It is also a little unclear to me what your point is.

 

[Bishka]

Right, it simply proves that the cities, kings, etc. mentioned in the Bible did indeed exist hence the historical accuracy of the Bible.

No it doesn't. The Bible is not meant to be a history record, science book, etc. It is meant to be theology.

 

[d.n.irvin]

The Bible is not meant to be a history record, science book, etc. It is meant to be theology.

The Bible is meant to be all that and more, to the believer.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Penguin, your pointing out very minor details and missing the big picture (my post speaks for itself) which is - God has the 'whole world in his hands'.
It is also a little unclear to me what your point is.

Then I'll repeat it:

It's fairly easy to shoehorn the historical record around predictions like "there will be another kingdom, not as great as this one, which will be defeated by an enemy", but IMO, so-called "prophesy" usually comes down to selective picking-and-choosing from history.

How is it that statements about the type of coinage used for tax payments in Medo-Persia are part of the "big picture", but the fact that what you claim was prophesied doesn't match what actually happened is "pointing out minor details"?

 

[logician]

There is not one historian contemporay to the supposed time of Christ that writes about or heard of such a man, which is strange, since the gospels make a point of the fact that he went about doing wonders, feeding the multitudes, etc. Such thingswould not have gone unnoticed by historians that lived in Jerusalem, for example.