Hitchen's Challange

[DNB]

Bats fly out of my butt when I fart.

...which is every time that you open your mouth?

 

[DNB]

By " restoration" you mean that all evidence was magically erased.

You've evidently not graced the ivy halls witj
your presence so I won't assume you should
know better than to so completely misrepresent the nature and extent of controversy
"Always controversy among peers of equal credentials" is grossly misleading, that is,
you've misled yourself.
There will be disagreement as to what sketchy
data may mean.

Controversy is welcome and necessary in science BUT, not every half wit opinion is
welcome at the table.
It is necessary to have actual data.

There is no ( zero) data to show there ever
was a world wide flood. All of the indications
of such an event are missing. (Tidied up?)

But it goes way beyond just lack of evidence.
To have had a flood and tidy up, it would also
be necessary to fake all of the proof that there was no flood.
The polar ice caps, just for one, would have to
be replaced, and not just with a lot of frozen water.
All the internal structure would have to be meticulously rebuilt.
What structure?
Every year's snowfall forms a distinct layer
with its own internal structure different from every other layer.
Each layer traps some air, pollens, dust,
sulfuric acid, volcanic ash, etc.
A little different every year.

Drill down, count the layers. There are many many tens of thousands of them.
They can be counted visually and by electric log, based on the different conductivity of each
year (see sulfuric acid)
Organic material can be carbon dated.
Every volcano has its own " fingerprint"
unique ash.
Count down to 1883, and there is ash from
Krakatoa. Count down to the year 79, there's Vesuvias ash and sulfuric acid spike.
Radiocarbon gives the same dates.

There is no " controversy" as to whether the
methods work.

The ice was there long long before any " flood".
Ice floats.

I just mentioned here one thing that disproves the "flood". Not that they concern themselves with "flood" any more than fisheries biologists
concern themselves with disproving mermaids.

If a person wishes, finds it necessary to
dismiss in ignorance what they dont understand and cannot accept for emotional
reasons, that is their situation, and so much the
worse for them.

Making silly claims about " controversy"
and evidence that simply does not exist
any more than it does for mermaids seems to
me quite a mistaken enterprise.

Mistaken in that to dismiss in ignorance is the height of foolishness.
You know that is so.
That puts you halfway to an interesting epiphany.
A good faith effort to learn some actual geology should take you the rest of the way.

A bonus (big one) would be learning to see
( understand) the lanscape around you for
what it really is, in all its depth wonder and
history- which, btw, and imo, would show a
far greater appreciation for such God as there may be than believing its all been faked up
to hide a mythical flood.

If you travel at all, grab a guide to roadside
geology for your state. Try it!

You wrote God with a capital 'G', good for you, ...but, I question whether or not we were talking about the same one - I somehow doubt it - in that case, bad on you.
You write well, but why at the same time does it sound as broken English grammatically? You're obviously intelligent, but is English not your first language? I'm not disparaging, quite the opposite, I find it paradoxical because, again, there is an intelligence there???

Either way, again, you can talk circles around my head about geology, even to the point that you could lie or be in err and I wouldn't know the difference.
God is real, open your scientific and secular eyes, and quit being fixated on trying to over analyze physical and material things while there is a spiritual warfare going on all around you.
You secularists play the double-standard all the time by advocating peace and love, as though they are integral principles within your worldview, but you can't for the life of you explain how or why the notion even arose within your mind, outside of making a desperate appeal to pragmatism.
What other creature on earth abides by a justice system whether legislated or tacitly endorsed? Apes kill one another, and other creatures, so why does your conscience burn if that ever involved you?

Point is, there are things going on in the world that you just can't comprehend out of your shallow worldview. I do not mean to capitulate the argument, but I barely care about providing evidence for a flood. My understanding of life and humans is not derived from stardust and protoplasm, but from the spirit that drives all people.
Was the earth created in 6 days, was woman created from the rib of man, was there a global flood that lasted a year, did Moses split the Red Sea, did Elijah & Elisha raise the dead, ...?
By witnessing all the unnecessary and prevalent wickedness in the world, then my answer is affirmative to all - as a whole, man is stiff-necked, defiant and cruel, and it requires a mighty and supernatural hand from God in order to warn men accordingly of the impending doom on Judgment Day.
Again, watch out for God's ambiguous manner in which He plays events out in history - they are meant to offer a deception to those who are inclined to defy God's sovereignty and authoritty.

 

[DNB]

So it dishonestly lied, to specifically endorse slavery, causing untold suffering for millions, and just to to teach a lesson, nice. This deity is sounding less moral the more you post, and more and more immorally cruel and barbaric. Again I can only be thankful there isn't a shred of objective evidence any such deity exists.

Define a 'shred'?

 

[DNB]

That is a bare unevidenced claim, and a preposterous one at that.




There is no water in the earth's core, again the sheer idiocy of the claim has me wondering if this is some sort of an elaborate hoax?

"The Earth is made up of three main layers, the solid outer layer is called the crust. These are made of tectonic plates. The Earth is made up of roughly a dozen major plates and several minor plates, called the lithosphere, consists of 15 to 20 moving tectonic plates.

Under the crust lies the mantle, which is made up of hot magma and other semi-solid rocks and minerals. Tectonic activity in the mantle often results in noticeable changes in the crust we live on, including volcanic eruptions and earthquakes.

Beneath the mantle, you'll find the core. The Earth's core is the deepest, hottest layer, and it's made up of two layers itself: the outer core which borders the mantle and the inner core, which is a ball-shaped layer made almost entirely of metal.
The outer core is about 1,400 miles thick, and it's made mostly of a combination (called an alloy) of iron and nickel, along with small amounts of other dense elements like gold, platinum, and uranium. In the outer core, they're in a very hot liquid form. How hot? Try between 7,000-9,000º F!"

What do you imagine would happen to any water at those temperatures, do take your time.

Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core
A reservoir of water three times the volume of all the oceans has been discovered deep beneath the Earth’s surface. The finding could help explain where Earth’s seas came from.
The water is hidden inside a blue rock called ringwoodite that lies 700 kilometres underground in the mantle, the layer of hot rock between Earth’s surface and its core.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25723-massive-ocean-discovered-towards-earths-core/
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...discovered-towards-earths-core/#ixzz7IU5J63p1

 

[DNB]

Ah so having made a string of asinine and demonstrably false claims, you're now resorting to appeals to inexplicable magic. Doesn't it strike you as odd that a deity that has such power would need a global flood and a global genocide in the first place? Let alone a small family using hand tools to build a boat from wood by hand, and then gather at least two of every air breathing species into it, and feed them for almost a year, not to mention the diverse environmental requirements from arctic species to desert dwellers.

The whole myth is utterly preposterous of course, but the slam dunk here is the entire dearth of any geological evidence.

Man's wicked, we all deserve to die. Unless, of course, you still believe that we came from the apes, and if that's the case, why is your hair in a knot over this discussion about God?

 

[DNB]

"Scientific analysis has refuted the key tenets of flood geology. Flood geology contradicts the scientific consensus in geology, stratigraphy, geophysics, physics, palaeontology, biology, anthropology, and archaeology. Modern geology, its sub-disciplines and other scientific disciplines utilize the scientific methods. In contrast, flood geology does not adhere to the scientific methods, making it a pseudoscience."

Maybe not a stalemate as far as numbers go, but possibly knowledge as Theist scientists see more than just the physical.

 

[ppp]

Man's wicked

Im not. Maybe you are.

 

[oldbadger]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

John 6:53-55.​

John

As I said before, Jesus did not say that. The authors of G-John wrote that, authors who didn't actually witness a single part of the events in Jesus's life.

And please don't tell me that G-John was written by John the Boatman, son of Zebedee, the disciple.

 

[oldbadger]

Of which the gospel writers borrowed from Paul, the Lord's supper, and had Jesus say a rendition of the words in the Last Supper scene.

1 Cor 10:16-17: The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.

But of course you don't care about Paul and Christian origins.

Correct. I don't give a hoot for Paul's stuff, nor Christian origins.
Jesus did not support any of that, imo.

 

[Audie]

You wrote God with a capital 'G', good for you, ...but, I question whether or not we were talking about the same one - I somehow doubt it - in that case, bad on you.
You write well, but why at the same time does it sound as broken English grammatically? You're obviously intelligent, but is English not your first language? I'm not disparaging, quite the opposite, I find it paradoxical because, again, there is an intelligence there???

Either way, again, you can talk circles around my head about geology, even to the point that you could lie or be in err and I wouldn't know the difference.
God is real, open your scientific and secular eyes, and quit being fixated on trying to over analyze physical and material things while there is a spiritual warfare going on all around you.
You secularists play the double-standard all the time by advocating peace and love, as though they are integral principles within your worldview, but you can't for the life of you explain how or why the notion even arose within your mind, outside of making a desperate appeal to pragmatism.
What other creature on earth abides by a justice system whether legislated or tacitly endorsed? Apes kill one another, and other creatures, so why does your conscience burn if that ever involved you?

Point is, there are things going on in the world that you just can't comprehend out of your shallow worldview. I do not mean to capitulate the argument, but I barely care about providing evidence for a flood. My understanding of life and humans is not derived from stardust and protoplasm, but from the spirit that drives all people.
Was the earth created in 6 days, was woman created from the rib of man, was there a global flood that lasted a year, did Moses split the Red Sea, did Elijah & Elisha raise the dead, ...?
By witnessing all the unnecessary and prevalent wickedness in the world, then my answer is affirmative to all - as a whole, man is stiff-necked, defiant and cruel, and it requires a mighty and supernatural hand from God in order to warn men accordingly of the impending doom on Judgment Day.
Again, watch out for God's ambiguous manner in which He plays events out in history - they are meant to offer a deception to those who are inclined to defy God's sovereignty and authoritty.

I use upper case for god, " God" out of what i
fancy to be respect to believers.
I am from Hong Kong, English is not my language.

The double standard you refer to comes as quitre a surprise as does this " spiritual warfare" and going about preachin' love n peace., or " appeals toe pragmatism" desperate or otherwise.
I think , a) this is your imagination, b) in the absence of either examples or relevance,
I dont think you have a topic.

"What other creature"...every critter is unique.
Whether othervanimaks have a conscience would be hard to demonstrate.
Again irrelevant.

Of course there are things that nobody can comprehend. Theres plenty we can, like say how an airplane works but you wont understand it if you dont try. The worse if
religion says magic smoke holds them up
and Faith is at risk is any facts arecallowed to intrude.

If you cared about what is real and true in regard the flood- which you have stated that you do not-you would learn soon enough its no more real than Paul Bunyan's great blue ox.

Perhaps there is fear of a ripple effect from
fully grasping that fact?
Do you think I was lying in what I said re geology?
Unlike your God- assertions, everything I said can be verified.
If I am not lying, then where's your flood?
Both cannot be true.

What do you think would happen to your faith
if you just ceased denying solid-ice reality for what it is?

My take- no shortage of devout Christians who
are not hesitant to let reality in.
And
If theres a god/ God, i personally would
doubt the wisdom of such dreadful calimny
as to say he drowned the world.

It might be worth a bit of time on that, rather than going the dont know, dont care route.

 

[Sheldon]

Define a 'shred'?

Why?

 

[Sheldon]

Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core
A reservoir of water three times the volume of all the oceans has been discovered deep beneath the Earth’s surface. The finding could help explain where Earth’s seas came from.
The water is hidden inside a blue rock called ringwoodite that lies 700 kilometres underground in the mantle, the layer of hot rock between Earth’s surface and its core.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25723-massive-ocean-discovered-towards-earths-core/
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...discovered-towards-earths-core/#ixzz7IU5J63p1

That's not in the earth's core, read the article.

"The water is hidden inside a blue rock called ringwoodite that lies 700 kilometres underground in the mantle, the layer of hot rock between Earth’s surface and its core."

...and there is still no geological evidence for a global flood.

 

[Sheldon]

Man's wicked, we all deserve to die.

If you say so, but wicked is clearly a subjective term, and the idea we are all the same is absurd.

Unless, of course, you still believe that we came from the apes, and if that's the case, why is your hair in a knot over this discussion about God?

The taxonomy of humans is that we are apes, and evolved from apes like ancestors, denying it would be pointless. I have no idea what your last sentence is supposed to mean sorry, this is a debate forum, why do so many theists not seem to grasp that? It's right there in the title of the forum after all.

 

[Audie]

Maybe not a stalemate as far as numbers go, but possibly knowledge as Theist scientists see more than just the physical.

Name one and tell us what they see.

Have you seen photos of polar ice?

 

[Sheldon]

Maybe not a stalemate as far as numbers go, but possibly knowledge as Theist scientists see more than just the physical.

There is no scientific evidence for a global flood, the claims are unscientific, that is what pseudoscience means.

 

[Audie]

Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core
A reservoir of water three times the volume of all the oceans has been discovered deep beneath the Earth’s surface. The finding could help explain where Earth’s seas came from.
The water is hidden inside a blue rock called ringwoodite that lies 700 kilometres underground in the mantle, the layer of hot rock between Earth’s surface and its core.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25723-massive-ocean-discovered-towards-earths-core/
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...discovered-towards-earths-core/#ixzz7IU5J63p1

That? Goodness. A little knowledge of chemistry would save the
embarrassment of trotting that out.

In simple terms, water added to
dehydrated gypsum gives you plaster for
sheetrock. Cool limestone and get cement.

For a little more technical-

The "water" in the ringwoodite is actually
hydroxide ion, OH. not HOH (H20) aka water.

Hyrdoxide ions are toxic.

 

[Audie]

There is no scientific evidence for a global flood, the claims are unscientific, that is what pseudoscience means.

Forget " scientific" or not.
The moon is not " scientific".
Try "specious"

 

[SkepticThinker]

Man's wicked, we all deserve to die. Unless, of course, you still believe that we came from the apes, and if that's the case, why is your hair in a knot over this discussion about God?

What a terrible view of humanity. I'm glad I'm not a member of your religion.

 

[Sheldon]

Forget " scientific" or not.
The moon is not " scientific".
Try "specious"

Well of course, but I was countering a specific claim DNB made for scientific evidence. To be honest I'm not even sure his claim is superficially plausible, but I see your point.

 

[DNB]

I use upper case for god, " God" out of what i
fancy to be respect to believers.
I am from Hong Kong, English is not my language.

The double standard you refer to comes as quitre a surprise as does this " spiritual warfare" and going about preachin' love n peace., or " appeals toe pragmatism" desperate or otherwise.
I think , a) this is your imagination, b) in the absence of either examples or relevance,
I dont think you have a topic.

"What other creature"...every critter is unique.
Whether othervanimaks have a conscience would be hard to demonstrate.
Again irrelevant.

Of course there are things that nobody can comprehend. Theres plenty we can, like say how an airplane works but you wont understand it if you dont try. The worse if
religion says magic smoke holds them up
and Faith is at risk is any facts arecallowed to intrude.

If you cared about what is real and true in regard the flood- which you have stated that you do not-you would learn soon enough its no more real than Paul Bunyan's great blue ox.

Perhaps there is fear of a ripple effect from
fully grasping that fact?
Do you think I was lying in what I said re geology?
Unlike your God- assertions, everything I said can be verified.
If I am not lying, then where's your flood?
Both cannot be true.

What do you think would happen to your faith
if you just ceased denying solid-ice reality for what it is?

My take- no shortage of devout Christians who
are not hesitant to let reality in.
And
If theres a god/ God, i personally would
doubt the wisdom of such dreadful calimny
as to say he drowned the world.

It might be worth a bit of time on that, rather than going the dont know, dont care route.

Thank you for the personal update, ...you speak English very well as it is your 2nd Language. My French is nowhere near the competency of your English.

On the contrary, again, you are applying secular means to try and demonstrate the spiritual and transcendent - no wonder you've induced that there is no evidence, ...which, unfortunately, you actually should've gained some insight of the Creator by the existence, design and functionality of the universe (cosmological and teleological arguments).

Man is a spiritual being, his sense of righteousness and order is not derived solely for the sake of pragmatism, his heart feels compassion for others even though their demise may have absolutely no impact on the onlooker's lives. No other creature on earth mourns the loss of their family, protests injustices, or does unto others as themselves. As it is written: we were created in the image of God, who is Spirit. Thus, our spirit comprehends spiritual issues, as no other non-human does. This spiritual awareness did not come from stardust or protoplasm, but from a spiritual source.

So, my point is, being aware of the Creator's presence is more imperative and astute, rather than comprehending the mechanics of the universe - that is reserved for either those trained in the field , or the sceptics. And, the former use the information for the sake of technological advancements , while the latter simply to try and justify their blindness. Was the earth created in 6 24 hr days, despite evidence showing otherwise? My position is yes, God can create a universe within a short period of time, while making it appear that its properties has eons of age. Was there a Global flood, as far as the intent is concerned: ABSOLUTELY, as far as the logistics are concerned: ABSOLUTELY, as far as the evidence is concerned: apparently not. Does God have the ability and the grounds to confound the evidence: ABSOLUTELY.

Do be careful Audie, it is written that God deliberately sends delusions in order bewilder the cynical and proud. You are looking in the wrong place for the evidence of the Transcendent.